larryc7777- Cool setup looks great. What Diameter is your tubing? What parts did you fab up and what did you buy?
?who's got a JLP Dual rai with pics
- Thread starter pwildbil
- Start date
Well, the airbox is the stock 03 Cobra unit that has the end cut off & the side opening enlarged(more than the pic shows). The tubing is 3" OD air intake tubing from Autozone(slips over the bumper openings tightly). The CF trim piece on the inner fender is from a Densecharger setup that I replaced. The 4" adapter inside the trim piece is actually PVC floor drain from Home Depot with a lot trimmed away. The filter is a 9" long K&N with the mounting flange cut off & then mated to the orange rubber ring of the stock filter(so it would seal when put in the stock filter housing). I also had a local muffler shop bend a 3" ID piece of aluminized tubing(flattened to about 1 1/2" high) to act as a transfer tube from the driver's side to the passenger side. The tube is mounted where the short black air deflector used to be just below the radiator. Then both 3" flexible air intake hoses enter the front of the inner fender liner and are "siamezed" onto the stub of the 4" floor drain.
This setup is VERY efficient at transferring air from the bumper openings to the filter housing opening. Also, I feel that it has the benefit of being an "open" filter with a straight air path to the MAF without the usual disadvantage of suffering from hot underhood air temps or fan wash.
OK....I decided to teach this old dog a new trick. I went out and purchased the materials to create my own RAM air through the fog-light ducts. The same materials that JLP charges $220 dollars for I picked up for $13.39 at Home Depot. That is for one ram-air side only. For two ram-air sides it would be $18.80 at Home Depot.
Before installing the application I did a 30 mile highway run and took measurements using my Linear Logic scan gauge. Intake Air temperature at startup idle was 91 F-degrees. The average intake air temperature drop was 12 F-degrees. Max drop in intake temperature for the trip was 15 F-degrees.
I then did only one ram-air application off my passenger-side extra fog-light inlet. I then did the same trip. The outside ambiant temperature was actually 2 F-degrees warmer than when I made the first run. The rammed intake air temperature at startup idle was again 91 F-degrees. The average intake air temperature drop was 20 F-degrees. Max drop in intake
temperature for the trip was 22 F-degrees. Throttle response was noticeably peppier in first gear and there was noticeably greater pull at WOT in 6th gear with the ram setup than without.
A couple of comments about its function:
1. At idle the ram-air kit does not make the idle temperatures any lower than without it. The reason for this is that the ram-air redirection is dependent on the car moving. Unless the
end of the flex-tubing is directly tied into a sealed airbox there will not be any vacuum made to pull the air up into the flex-tubing.
2. Initial temperature drops without the ram air setup were in 2 to 3 degree increments. Temperature drops with the single ram-air setup were in increments of 4 to 5 degrees. So the circulated volume of cooler air is indeed occurring as a result of the ram-air setup.
A couple of comments about its installation:
3. The extra fog-light inlet is a natural adapter that the flex-tubing can connect directly to. This end needs to go in first since it is the most difficult to get attached if you don't take the front cowling off. The flex-tubing comes in sizes 3" through 8" with
no half or quarter sizes available at Home Depot (there are in-between sizes available on the WEB). Anything greater than 3" is not going to snuggly connect so its best to go with the 3". However since the extra fog-light inlet is 3" in diameter as well you will need to cut 4 lines into the flex-tubing at one end perpendicular to the end for about 1.5". This allows the flex-tubing end to slide over the extra fog-light inlet yet be snug. You then cinch it into a fixed hold using a 3" water hose screw-clamp.
4. The opposite end of the flex-tubing is clamped to a 3" adapter using a 3" water hose screw-clamp. This end is placed into the stock snorkel hole. The entire assembly is secured to the inner fender assembly using UV ties. In my case I had a leftover MAC CAI plate in place that has a nice cut hole in it where the power pipe used to be (I have the open K&N now.) So I just placed the 3" adapted end of the flex-tubing through that hole and up against the K&N filter.
5. I then tested the setup by placing a snow blower about two feet from the fog-light inlet and turned it on. I then put my hand next to the outlet into the bay by the K&N and felt a heavy direct stream of air coming into the bay.
A couple of thoughts about JLP:
6. I more now than before believe however that JLP is more than ripping people off by charging $220 for only $20 in
materials at most. Any claim that you are paying for the intellectual property is certainly laughable given that
this isn't rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. This really makes me suspicious of their other product pricing and perhaps ofeven their integrity given the extent of this particular gouging they are doing to us people for this particular product. I think they are operating under the thought that "there is a sucker born every day" which to me as a consumer is certainly insulting.
So does the RAM setup through an extra fog duct work.....YES. Is it worth paying JLP $220 for the same ram-air kit materials...hell no but it is worth $13 to $20 from Home Depot.
A thought about myself:
7. You can teach an old dog some new tricks.
Before installing the application I did a 30 mile highway run and took measurements using my Linear Logic scan gauge. Intake Air temperature at startup idle was 91 F-degrees. The average intake air temperature drop was 12 F-degrees. Max drop in intake temperature for the trip was 15 F-degrees.
I then did only one ram-air application off my passenger-side extra fog-light inlet. I then did the same trip. The outside ambiant temperature was actually 2 F-degrees warmer than when I made the first run. The rammed intake air temperature at startup idle was again 91 F-degrees. The average intake air temperature drop was 20 F-degrees. Max drop in intake
temperature for the trip was 22 F-degrees. Throttle response was noticeably peppier in first gear and there was noticeably greater pull at WOT in 6th gear with the ram setup than without.
A couple of comments about its function:
1. At idle the ram-air kit does not make the idle temperatures any lower than without it. The reason for this is that the ram-air redirection is dependent on the car moving. Unless the
end of the flex-tubing is directly tied into a sealed airbox there will not be any vacuum made to pull the air up into the flex-tubing.
2. Initial temperature drops without the ram air setup were in 2 to 3 degree increments. Temperature drops with the single ram-air setup were in increments of 4 to 5 degrees. So the circulated volume of cooler air is indeed occurring as a result of the ram-air setup.
A couple of comments about its installation:
3. The extra fog-light inlet is a natural adapter that the flex-tubing can connect directly to. This end needs to go in first since it is the most difficult to get attached if you don't take the front cowling off. The flex-tubing comes in sizes 3" through 8" with
no half or quarter sizes available at Home Depot (there are in-between sizes available on the WEB). Anything greater than 3" is not going to snuggly connect so its best to go with the 3". However since the extra fog-light inlet is 3" in diameter as well you will need to cut 4 lines into the flex-tubing at one end perpendicular to the end for about 1.5". This allows the flex-tubing end to slide over the extra fog-light inlet yet be snug. You then cinch it into a fixed hold using a 3" water hose screw-clamp.
4. The opposite end of the flex-tubing is clamped to a 3" adapter using a 3" water hose screw-clamp. This end is placed into the stock snorkel hole. The entire assembly is secured to the inner fender assembly using UV ties. In my case I had a leftover MAC CAI plate in place that has a nice cut hole in it where the power pipe used to be (I have the open K&N now.) So I just placed the 3" adapted end of the flex-tubing through that hole and up against the K&N filter.
5. I then tested the setup by placing a snow blower about two feet from the fog-light inlet and turned it on. I then put my hand next to the outlet into the bay by the K&N and felt a heavy direct stream of air coming into the bay.
A couple of thoughts about JLP:
6. I more now than before believe however that JLP is more than ripping people off by charging $220 for only $20 in
materials at most. Any claim that you are paying for the intellectual property is certainly laughable given that
this isn't rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. This really makes me suspicious of their other product pricing and perhaps ofeven their integrity given the extent of this particular gouging they are doing to us people for this particular product. I think they are operating under the thought that "there is a sucker born every day" which to me as a consumer is certainly insulting.
So does the RAM setup through an extra fog duct work.....YES. Is it worth paying JLP $220 for the same ram-air kit materials...hell no but it is worth $13 to $20 from Home Depot.
A thought about myself:
7. You can teach an old dog some new tricks.
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thanks for the test and commentary!!!
sounds like its worth the 20 bucks!!!
sounds like its worth the 20 bucks!!!
One additional comment for the do-it-your-selfers who are going to do this mod. Don't terminate the hose too close to the airfilter. If you do, the force of the incoming air will cause airflow reversion & confuse the MAF sensor. My first attempt had the hoses themselves right next to the air filter. A short drive was all it took to point out the error in my setup. Idle was fine, engine revved fine, but driving caused surging, and when I pushed the clutch in to come to a stop...the car died. I later discovered that I could cause the car to die from idle by blowing compressed air on the filter from close range. The air was entering the filter at such a high rate of speed that the maf was confused into calling for an overrich mixture.
Interestingly I dont have this problem and my single flex-tube dumps directly onto / at the K&N. I am sure the problem you were having is caused either by the "X" bar of your drain pipe adapter which I am sure is causing air stream deflection of the incoming air from your dual flex-tubing OR its because you are running dual tubing with the airstreams being slightly antagonistic and then compounded by the drain "X". In short..your configuration is unnecessarily complicated with things that add no value (drain adaptor with the "X" member) given the goal of simply moving air from the fog-light inlet to the K&N....so it needs to be simplified.
I have a single flex-tube that attaches to a straight and smooth-walled aluminum adapter with no cross-member to cause air deflection.
If I was you I would uncomplicate your design and just remove the "X" drain adaptor and run the two flex-tubes into a single intersection adaptor and have that adaptor dump directly onto the K&N.
One tube...one smooth-walled adaptor...one air stream I think is the key to being able to dump directly AT and ONTO the K&N filter WITHOUT confusing the MAF. It works for me so it should work for you too.
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I went out for an additional test tonight. The startup idle inlet air temp was 119 F-degrees. The air inlet temp dropped a total of 55 F-degrees after driving just two miles from my driveway.
Having always watched my scan gauge temp readings in the past I have never witnessed such a drop in temperature range in the past even despite the given the cooler night air.
Having always watched my scan gauge temp readings in the past I have never witnessed such a drop in temperature range in the past even despite the given the cooler night air.
You forgot one other important difference between our 2 systems...yours is a totally open element. The air that contacts your filter is dispersed quickly into the engine compartment. Mine, on the other hand discharges the air into the modified filter housing. This contains the air longer & intensifies the effect on the filter/MAF. Also, I have twice the airflow impacting my filter.
Here's something to try. Get going about 60 mph, push in the clutch, & coast. Let me know if anything strange happens.
ps. The problem I had occurred when I was using only the hoses. To correct the problem was the reason that I backed the hoses away from the filter & connected them to a single outlet source. The + brace has been there for almost a year without any problems.
When I am out and about tomorrow I will try the 60 mph-clutch & coast thing and let you know what happens. SInce you mentioned the open element difference I am willing to bet that my car will not react the way yours did. It will be interesting to see! I'll get back to you tomorrow....
Good to see you reconsider! Mine was also done with Home Depot materials. To solve the problem with the connection at the bumper, I used a 4 inch hose and an adaptor. I think I have a different www link that will work to give some ideas. Try this link and hopefully it will stay up for a while although my web sites are still a bit messed up.
http://www.wladyka.org//03Cobra/CAI/CAI.htm
I also had some stalling at first and adjusted the stop screw on the throttle body to give it a bit more idle. Eventually, the computer did steady it all out.
That is a really nice system there....better than the JLP setup for sure. The only concern I would have is the fact you have had to use sheet metal to construct the air-box. The metal must be a heat conductor. Too bad you somehow couldn't have fashioned an air-box out of plastic instead to eliminate the air-box's heat soaking. But nonetheless a really nice setup there. :beer:
Thanks for the nice comments. I actually have not found using thin metal be a problem temperature-wise simply because the box is constantly feed with cold air (at least when the car is moving) and there is very little mass to sheet metal to serve as heat transfer. Its main purpose is simply to contain the cold air for a brief period and inhibit engine bay air from commingling with the air from the ram-air tube. I've done some testing as well and I think you will find that once the filter is boxed and plumbed with the ram-air tube you will find much lower temps at your IAT1 sensor and inside the box verses the temps just outside of the box (except when the car is stopped of course). It would be nice to see a comparison with plastic however.
The metal case had some other advantages as well. It is very easy to work with and shape (although I don't know that I would take the time to mass produce) and you can coat the inside with oil or a light grease and it wipes off easily and does not affect the material (another means to grab any flying dirt).
On the pre-filter design, another concept I considered but did not implement would be to have a small curved plate suspended between the pre-filter and main filter (the box would have to be a bit bigger) which would be coated with a light grease. Its purpose would be have any small particles that get through the pre-filter embed on this plate. Of course a downside would be that air would then have to route around the plate (but it would also be forced to skim along the oiled sides of the box for potentially more filtration. I didn’t implement this concept since I think the prefilter does an excellent job and a redirection plate is over-kill. However, to those who are paranoia about using the gauze type filters it seems to be the best way to catch every possible bit of dirt while maintaining the flow of cold air.
The metal case had some other advantages as well. It is very easy to work with and shape (although I don't know that I would take the time to mass produce) and you can coat the inside with oil or a light grease and it wipes off easily and does not affect the material (another means to grab any flying dirt).
On the pre-filter design, another concept I considered but did not implement would be to have a small curved plate suspended between the pre-filter and main filter (the box would have to be a bit bigger) which would be coated with a light grease. Its purpose would be have any small particles that get through the pre-filter embed on this plate. Of course a downside would be that air would then have to route around the plate (but it would also be forced to skim along the oiled sides of the box for potentially more filtration. I didn’t implement this concept since I think the prefilter does an excellent job and a redirection plate is over-kill. However, to those who are paranoia about using the gauze type filters it seems to be the best way to catch every possible bit of dirt while maintaining the flow of cold air.
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Your craftmanship certainly speaks for the thought you have put into it. I like the idea about an inner surface light oil or grease film as a secondary particle catch. This is really one of the best organic designs I have ever seen on this forum. I think you really might be onto something here. Have you considered making and selling your creation? If you ever decide to I will definitely buy one from you. Again :beer:
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