Why are GT500 Rods Weaker? What is with all of the BS Posting?

[Fourcam330]

Where did you get this information? I'm not saying you're wrong - just wondering where the information can be found.

Part common knowledge, the rest is not what, but who you know. GT500 rods are safe to around 600rwhp at the stock rpm limit. They've been tested to ~640rw but only for short amounts of time.

 

[1bad04cobra]

Part common knowledge, the rest is not what, but who you know. GT500 rods are safe to around 600rwhp at the stock rpm limit. They've been tested to ~640rw but only for short amounts of time.

You da man! how about lets wait and see how they hold up as people mod them.The terms have held up pretty well and my guess is the shelby will as well;-) time will tell

 

[FireRed04Vert]

the 03/04 engines are good up to 600rwhp because of the pistons. meaning the piston will last a long life at power levels below 600. above that number who knows how long they will last? 1k miles? 10k miles?

That's an old wive's tail brought on by a bunch of misinformation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the strength of the factory piston in the Terminator. It will take a ton of horsepower. The piston problem you run into in those cars is the clearance the factory gave them. .001 of an inch is not enough clearance for high horsepower, long run, high heat situations. The pistons grab. With proper clearance, they will handle a ton of horsepower with no problem.

I can't think of a single piston on the terminator that has broken from too much horsepower. I have seen them with a ring land lifted due to detonation, and lots of seized and scuffed pistons due to heat and little clearance. But I haven't seen a one that broke from too much horsepower. Detonation damage and improper clearance for the application is not the fault of the piston. I've seen some incredibly expensive pistons die due to detonation.

 

[Quadcammer]

well I don't think too many people check for collapsed skirts when the sides of their pistons are gouged to hell.

they are a forged piston from the lowest bidder, they are nothing special.

 

[Fourcam330]

That's an old wive's tail brought on by a bunch of misinformation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the strength of the factory piston in the Terminator. It will take a ton of horsepower. The piston problem you run into in those cars is the clearance the factory gave them. .001 of an inch is not enough clearance for high horsepower, long run, high heat situations. The pistons grab. With proper clearance, they will handle a ton of horsepower with no problem.

I can't think of a single piston on the terminator that has broken from too much horsepower. I have seen them with a ring land lifted due to detonation, and lots of seized and scuffed pistons due to heat and little clearance. But I haven't seen a one that broke from too much horsepower. Detonation damage and improper clearance for the application is not the fault of the piston. I've seen some incredibly expensive pistons die due to detonation.

Sorry Jack that's a fact. The skirts are weak and collapse, and the teflon coating wears extremely quickly. Like Oli said, they are a bargain basement forged slug, that's it.

 

[TORQUERULES]

If the shelby does 10.4 in the quarter with stock blower, under 600 whp i think the rods are going to be a non issue.Maybe people should start talking about why this car has a better platform than complaining about the rods:idea:

SNAP! Well said.

 

[chuckstang]

Sorry Jack that's a fact. The skirts are weak and collapse, and the teflon coating wears extremely quickly. Like Oli said, they are a bargain basement forged slug, that's it.

dam it, the gt500 is a rod replacement away from being the be all end all of straight line factory cars!!!

 

[FireRed04Vert]

Sorry Jack that's a fact. The skirts are weak and collapse, and the teflon coating wears extremely quickly. Like Oli said, they are a bargain basement forged slug, that's it.

I disagree. And by yours and quadcammers logic, the rods are nothing but a bargain basement, low bid item too. Not hardly. Again, the pistons are fine. It's the blueprint they were given that's the problem...and that was due to emission compliance and to prevent piston slap when cold. Either properly clearance the pistons or modify the cooling system and you rarely see a problem.

I wonder just how strong the GT500 rod really is. I find it hard to believe it's only safe to 600 hp. I guess time will tell.

 

[Quadcammer]

sigh.
Ford has certain specifics when they request bids. Manley delivered the rods at the lowest price. Maybe eagle wanted to much or couldn't supply enough rods.
While the rods are good, the rod bolts leave something to be desired.

the pistons are made by zollners. they are a 4032 slug with a top ringland made to meet emissions standards, not hold up to 25psi. They aren't particualrly strong. Just about any forged piston can hold 18psi. However, start running 25-30psi on this piston and the skirts will collapse. Obviously it doesn't help that the p/w clearance is too tight, but the pistons are nothing great at all.

compare a stock 03 piston to a cp or diamond 2618 piston and tell me they look the same.

 

[Fourcam330]

I disagree. And by yours and quadcammers logic, the rods are nothing but a bargain basement, low bid item too. Not hardly. Again, the pistons are fine. It's the blueprint they were given that's the problem...and that was due to emission compliance and to prevent piston slap when cold. Either properly clearance the pistons or modify the cooling system and you rarely see a problem.

I wonder just how strong the GT500 rod really is. I find it hard to believe it's only safe to 600 hp. I guess time will tell.

No disrespect but you're not a world class engine builder. Speak with anyone that's in that class and they'll tell you the same thing. Not all "opinions" are weighted equally.
I do agree with you on the GT500 rods, they are what they are, just like the 03/04 pistons.

 

[FireRed04Vert]

No disrespect but you're not a world class engine builder. Speak with anyone that's in that class and they'll tell you the same thing. Not all "opinions" are weighted equally.
I do agree with you on the GT500 rods, they are what they are, just like the 03/04 pistons.

World class? No...you're right. And no disrespect taken by any means. But I have built and blueprinted dozens and dozens of engines...held 4 NHRA National Records, and finished in the top 5 in points several times. I do have some experience with engine designs.

I also agree with quadcammer that there are better pistons out there on the market than the ones from the factory. But I still feel the factory pistons are a very strong piece. But I'm also not talking about 25 lbs of boost either. Now we're not comparing apples to apples. If you're talking about those kind of boost pressures, I see your point.

 

[SlowSVT]

I would imagine that the GT500 uses the same piston-to-wall clearance as the Terminator for the same reason. If that's the case I don't think it matters much what quality of piston are used. .001" does not leave much wiggle room to "grow " inside the bore under high output/high heat conditions.

 

[G2Mach1]

"Manley 4340 H-beam Rods (like the ones found in 03-04 Cobras) are rated for 700hp to 8000rpms. And they cost $579"

I have them new and for sale now $450...!

 

[scgt500]

Getting back to WildThang's original post...

We've pretty much determined that the GT500 comes with forged cracked Mahle rods. There's an old article in M&SF where Ford engineers claim that the rods in the GT500 are equal in strength to the rods in the Terminators.

So where's the information that disputes this claim? Do we even know the model number of the Mahle rods? Has anyone seen an official rating for them? Going back through previous posts on this subject you see a lot of speculation but no real, hard facts.

Heres alink that may give some info your looking for ...http://www.manleyperformance.com/pdfs/newprod-rods.pdf#search="14319-8"

 

[BWH2003]

Heres alink that may give some info your looking for ...http://www.manleyperformance.com/pdfs/newprod-rods.pdf#search="14319-8"

Yeah but those are manley pro series rods. Those are not the stock rods of the GT500. The stockers are mahle and they are not the "pro" series, they are the ford "budget" line. LOL

 

[Fourcam330]

You da man! how about lets wait and see how they hold up as people mod them.The terms have held up pretty well and my guess is the shelby will as well;-) time will tell

Time has already told. Roush ate quite a few GT500 shortblocks in testing.

 

[IamMike]

Time has already told. Roush ate quite a few GT500 shortblocks in testing.

where is this info, I'd like to read what happened

 

[Fourcam330]

where is this info, I'd like to read what happened

You aren't going to find/read about it on the net.

 

[HISSMAN]

Time has already told. Roush ate quite a few GT500 shortblocks in testing.

+100, and yes, good luck finding that in print anywhere. But it is 100% true.

 

[1bad04cobra]

+100, and yes, good luck finding that in print anywhere. But it is 100% true.

So in your opinion 650 to the wheels would be too much?