You groupies clamoring about NA horsepower, IN HERE

[Fourcam330]

The one thing I don't see compared is driveability issues at high HP. Lets compare a 600hp non FI, to 600hp FI. I can guarantee you it may be fun for an hour, but driving around all day or all week on all motor making 600hp is going to get obnoxious, and eventually rattle the car apart if you don't do anything to it. Not to mention you aren't going to be talking to your sweetie over the engine. On the other hand, a 600hp FI car is more like a 300hp car, with 300hp more on-tap whenever you want it....yet it retains a stock idle, stock feel, heck you can get 600rwhp with almost stock exhaust out of a Terminator. Even KB got 806rwhp on a bone stock Shelby with C116 fuel, and 23psi. On their conservative tune, at lower boost with stock exhaust it made 740rwhp (these are figures I heard from a tuner). I like the feel and sound of a well cammed NA motor too, but I know which one I would want to drive around in all-day stop and go, or take a cruise to the next state in.

I guess you've never driven a 600HP+ N/A 5.4 for instance? That's the beauty of 4 valves, you don't need big cams (loss of drivability) to make power across the board. I'm not saying you can't make more power with a blower/turbo, just that the drivability disparity isn't as bad as you make it sound, at all.

 

[03SBSVT]

weak internals??? are you high??? when you have an 11.1 C/R boost is not your friends without the proper fuel.....your 03 will pop a shortblock just as easy with only alittle detonation

Oh and lastly i see a Kenne Bell 01 everyday:-D but i have only ever seen one other KB 01 in the last 3 years besides mine

That comment was based towards the people who say FI is easy, just slap it on and go, and then you just add horsepower to the already proven high HP na platform, my point was, high HP na cars aren't made for boost, aka the Z-06 having high compression along with weak pistons=KABOOM!

 

[E. Green Cobra]

The one thing I don't see compared is driveability issues at high HP. Lets compare a 600hp non FI, to 600hp FI. I can guarantee you it may be fun for an hour, but driving around all day or all week on all motor making 600hp is going to get obnoxious, and eventually rattle the car apart if you don't do anything to it. Not to mention you aren't going to be talking to your sweetie over the engine. On the other hand, a 600hp FI car is more like a 300hp car, with 300hp more on-tap whenever you want it....yet it retains a stock idle, stock feel, heck you can get 600rwhp with almost stock exhaust out of a Terminator. Even KB got 806rwhp on a bone stock Shelby with C116 fuel, and 23psi. On their conservative tune, at lower boost with stock exhaust it made 740rwhp (these are figures I heard from a tuner). I like the feel and sound of a well cammed NA motor too, but I know which one I would want to drive around in all-day stop and go, or take a cruise to the next state in.

Obviously there are a lot of variables, GM's Ls7 is every bit the equal of the blown 5.4's, in power,efficiency and driveability. As a plus they even respond to mods well and cheaply, (especially when you consider the extra "taxes" added on because its in a corvette)

 

[chuckstang]

Stangs need FI because they weigh so dam much. A corvette weighs so little it really does not need FI to get it moving quickly. A mustang either needs very steep gears or FI to really get moving.
FI is cheaper than N/A power if you ask me. I cant wait to be a member of the FI club. No more hundreds of dollars spent to increase by maybe 15hp haha
I love n/a but just aint enough in a stang if you ask me

 

[swoosh_stang]

That comment was based towards the people who say FI is easy, just slap it on and go, and then you just add horsepower to the already proven high HP na platform, my point was, high HP na cars aren't made for boost, aka the Z-06 having high compression along with weak pistons=KABOOM!

The z-06 doesn't have "weak pistons" it has high compression, and if you don't have a damn good tune even 6 psi will make it detonate.

I personally have seen an 800hp cammed exhaust procharged C6 z06 on the dyno. The same guy has a twin turbo c6 Z06 that put down over 1khp (I'm not sure it isn't built though)

You can even run the 3v's up to 600 if it's on a good tune ( it may not last long but you can do it)

My point is that you can build great power in an engine that started out as N/A for not a hell of alot of money either.

Look at all the Lsx motors with cams and spray that are putting down over 500 at the wheels, that's what $1500 in mods tops?

My preference is both at the same time big cam+FI=:rockon:

 

[tmhutch]

Obviously there are a lot of variables, GM's Ls7 is every bit the equal of the blown 5.4's, in power,efficiency and driveability. As a plus they even respond to mods well and cheaply, (especially when you consider the extra "taxes" added on because its in a corvette)

Right, right, and not quite. LS7 makes unbelievable power and manages to get excellent gas mileage while doing it so yes, very efficient, but a two valve motor cant touch a 4 valve for drivability. Remember the curtain area on four valves allows you to max out the port with very conservative cam specs. Not sure if you've ever seen or heard an LS7 with an aggressive cam but the whole car rocks. High marks on the cool list but not what I would consider a comfortable driver.

Good point on the drivability of a high horsepower forced induction car but as fourcam said. The disparity is not nearly as prevalent on a 4 valve motor.

 

[Harry Schneider]

Hey COBRA32, I'm with the forced-induction crowd, but...F1 engines are n/a!

 

[F8L SN8K]

Different strokes for different folks.
Build a FI motor from SCRATCH and FI is no longer cheaper to build.
Ford did the hard part for you for FI. Thats why its a Bang-for-your-Buck. FI induction provides a great bang for you buck periode but without a decent NA setup(H,C,I) you wouldnt have a very good FI motor. The shortblock needs to be suited for whatever you need out of it. Rather it be NA, turbo, roots blower, centriblower, high rpm, high milege, emissions.

I am a blower guy through and through, but want to build a NA 4 valve so bad. Some see a NA motor as being a "pure horspower" some veiw a blower or nitrous as "cheating" I almost baought a mach 1 over my 03 because I planned to build a BB 4v for it. I have been thinking of building a Pure Street or Factory stock Mustang for competion after I complete my turbo install because I love NA/screaming rpm cars.
So which is more impressive a 390hp 3800lbs FI cobra or a 385 hp 3600 cobra? Which would you like more a 500HP NA 427ci or a 500HP SC 330ci.
With the after market it is easy to put FI on anycar, but you better have the greens also. A FI car will make more horsepower but there is something sweet about NA power.
In drag raciong go low tens with a NA(Pure Street) or go low tens with a blower(Real Street)?
AND for the roadcoarse guys all things being equil lets pin a non TT S7 against a new TT S7 in a road coarse and see who wins? Hey lets pin a INdy car against a F1 car and the F1 will KILL the indy car. Rules and regulations dictate when FI and NA can/will be used. Everybody can point out goods and bad things on anything. IF ford builds a boss or any mustang with a 400 hp NA I would love it. but I dont want them to stop building a SC mustang, either.

So its different strokes for different folks. So lets stop the stupid argueing! Nothing will get acomplished in this thread!!! Just everyone getting upset, and showing ignorance, with some knowledge thrown in.

 

[HotRodHarry]

Oh just stop it everyone and put a blower or turbo on it already and live the perfect life like we power adder guys do already...LOL

Interesting topic gang.

 

[01greycobra]

Stangs need FI because they weigh so dam much. A corvette weighs so little it really does not need FI to get it moving quickly. A mustang either needs very steep gears or FI to really get moving.
FI is cheaper than N/A power if you ask me. I cant wait to be a member of the FI club. No more hundreds of dollars spent to increase by maybe 15hp haha
I love n/a but just aint enough in a stang if you ask me

I agree, I love my N/A car now but there is nothing like a blown 4 valve. Thats why I bought a procharger. No I'm not looking to get insane hp (550+) like the Termis can get with their motors but nonetheless, I'm going FI very soon. The thought of N/A power is nice but it just does not compare to BOOST. FWIW, I think building a great N/A is much more expensive then going FI, so my hats go off to you guys who do it. I respect both so do what you want, as long as its a cobra

 

[bluestreak89]

You do know the noble is a turboed ford motor, right?

that was the point of the post, the noble is fast as heck even though the light weight has something to do with it, but I would take that motor in a mustang anyday and if you rode in one you would agree.

 

[CPViolation]

:loser: .................ok, how come the vette builders feel different and all their engines out perform ours and have tons more potential? Oh wait, what about vipers? Oh wait, what about porsche engines for road racing? Oh wait, what about nascar engines with sick horsepower and are "NA?"........you need to read a book!! Ford does this becuase they are cheap!!!

:bs:

Do you really think it's cheap to hand build a motor with a serious bottom end, four valve heads that flow like crazy.....?
John Coletti requested the SC because the 2002 N/A Cobra too slow to be any comp. When a SVT Focus was able to hang with the 2002, Coletti became ungluded. That's the main reason why the Terminators are supercharged.
Jeff

 

[bluestreak89]

The one thing I don't see compared is driveability issues at high HP. Lets compare a 600hp non FI, to 600hp FI. I can guarantee you it may be fun for an hour, but driving around all day or all week on all motor making 600hp is going to get obnoxious, and eventually rattle the car apart if you don't do anything to it. Not to mention you aren't going to be talking to your sweetie over the engine. On the other hand, a 600hp FI car is more like a 300hp car, with 300hp more on-tap whenever you want it....yet it retains a stock idle, stock feel, heck you can get 600rwhp with almost stock exhaust out of a Terminator. Even KB got 806rwhp on a bone stock Shelby with C116 fuel, and 23psi. On their conservative tune, at lower boost with stock exhaust it made 740rwhp (these are figures I heard from a tuner). I like the feel and sound of a well cammed NA motor too, but I know which one I would want to drive around in all-day stop and go, or take a cruise to the next state in.

Exactly why I said NA for track and FI for highway. Equal hp on track with same drivers or very even drivers in similarbe cars and NA will win 9 times out of 10. As for me I like to have one car that's loud ALL THE TIME! If I wanna cruise to the next state I wont be in my precious sports car, I HATE putting miles on my car, but I love driving it, so it's short trips for me. For long trips get in the wife's SUV.

 

[94_302]

You may not see nearly as many modified because there are less on the road.
19,140 03/04 cobras
15,346 99/01 cobras

Yes a blown car will offer better hp/$ ratio with mods. But a blower is not gods gift to a factory car...

 

[SlowSVT]

But a blower is not gods gift to a factory car...

You are correct. The blower is Fords gift. Power wise an NA car is not even in the same league.

On the FI Z06. What makes me uneasy about applying forced induction on that engine is the lack of sealing surface between the cylinders. Chevy punched the SB out soo much that the wall thickness is paper thin and they have siemesed bores to boot. I would think that would make it prone to head gasket sealing issues and hot spots between the bores making it hard to keep the cylinders round. Has the Z06 motor been reliable at high boost levels?

 

[Fourcam330]

You are correct. The blower is Fords gift. Power wise an NA car is not even in the same league.

On the FI Z06. What makes me uneasy about applying forced induction on that engine is the lack of sealing surface between the cylinders. Chevy punched the SB out soo much that the wall thickness is paper thin and they have siemesed bores to boot. I would think that would make it prone to head gasket sealing issues and hot spots between the bores making it hard to keep the cylinders round. Has the Z06 motor been reliable at high boost levels?

The LS9 is 6.2L with it's own block, not the relseeved LS2 that the C6 Z06 uses (LS7).

 

[ac427cobra]

The LS9 is 6.2L with it's own block, not the relseeved LS2 that the C6 Z06 uses (LS7).

What does LS stand for and what happened to the 8? :shrug:

 

[Fourcam330]

What does LS stand for and what happened to the 8? :shrug:

No idea, just a moniker I guess. I'm sure at some point we'll see a LS8. The refreshed vette gets a LS3.

 

[SlowSVT]

The LS9 is 6.2L with it's own block, not the relseeved LS2 that the C6 Z06 uses (LS7).

I haven't been current on chevy motors for a while. I'm just going by a picture I saw of a bare 7 liter Z06 block. The wall thickness between the bores was scary thin :uh oh:

Am I missing something here :read:

 

[Fourcam330]

I haven't been current on chevy motors for a while. I'm just going by a picture I saw of a bare 7 liter Z06 block. The wall thickness between the bores was scary thin :uh oh:

Am I missing something here :read:

I wouldn't boost a resleeved LS2 (LS7) either, but the C6 Z06 and the Blue Devil do not use the same blocks.