z28 vs 2003 cobra

[TNTramair]

Truth hurts does it. Well lets just look over what you've written and it will be evident.


There where many many factors, some political some moneytary based. Essentially the Fbody went south because it wasn't going to meet the latest crash regulations (this is also a major part why the sn95 HAD to be replaced). Sales figure where low in this sector (including the Mustang) so GM decided not to replace it at that time. Now the market has picked up in this area it is once more more lucrative, hence GM quickly introduced the GTO as it didn't involve any development costs and was quick to introduce to market.

This is nothing new, as in the early 90's Ford bosses where going to axe the Mustang (it was even announced to an extent) and it's replacement in the Ford line up was to be the Ford probe. However some enthusiasts at Ford worked on the quiet and came up with the rebodied 1994 sn95 model. With it's new looks but cheap production costs utilising existing components (platform, suspension, drivetrain, engine) it was kept in production.

But never forget the Mustang came right to the edge of also being discontinued.


Once again who gives a chuff. I didn't buy a car based on how many other people own one. I buy a car based on what it offers and how it looks.

Are you a sad little person who can only bear to have what is popular and be totally unable to choose and decide for yourself??


Are you dumb?? Or do you just not know what an E-Type is? It survived 3 generations, 3 different engine line ups, coupe, roadster, 2+2 Coupe and 2+2 roadster variants from the early 60's all the way into the 70's. It was nothing at all like the XJ220. And aside from that the XJ220 was one of the biggest commercial flops ever. As it was launched just as the bubble burst on the yuppy era. £400,000 cars where being sold off NEW for £150,000. Learn your facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you are so determined PROVE IT show me sales figures show me a statement from GM.


I agree with this, but it DOES contridict what you where saying, you simply can not have it both ways - choose!


Thinking they are bad and bashing is NOT the same thing. You where trying to be high and mighty "Well my car is better than yours because it's still in production" - that is shear folly and arogance.


No. I simply care, like and enjoy cars. The late 70's early 80's where not the hay day for American performance cars and sadly the Mustang at that time was a joke. It was very very ugly and bland and at one point didn't even come with a V8. It was an embarrisment to its legacy. And many claim it is the period to forget and it would have been better if Ford had dropped the name so as not to disgrace it.

Fortunantly the 80's saw a return of performance and eventually of the good looking very desirable Mustang.

I mean if at the end of the year Ford axed the current Mustang and replaced it with an ugly poor handling bland machine with only a 2.5 V6 and 2.0 turbo with 220bhp to offer, would you still want one??


I have no trouble with people liking a company, but when they bash another based on the sole purpose of it not being the company they like it is only a sign of a de-evolving human race and interlect.

I like Ford, but not every Ford ever built because many of them are complete mundane dogs. But GM builds just as many dogs, and Dodge, Rover, BMW and so on.

I like each car based on IT, what IT is, what IT can do, what IT looks like. Not who builds IT.

As for a fav car, well no not one. But a top 5 (in no order):
-Aston Martin Vantage twin supercharged V8
-s197 Mustang GT
-Land Rover 90
-1977 Trans Am
-Gordon Keeble


Intelligence has many levels, being able to spell is not automatically one of them Albert Einstein was illiterate.


:lol1:


No, no problem I was 18 not that many years ago. I admit I may have been a little harsh before - sorry - but the thing is the world is a big place with many many cultures. And Ford v GM is as stupid as putting salt in your coffee. And your comment about "ha which ones still in production" followed that pointless train of thought. I mean YES I know and so does everyone else that the Fbody isn't made anymore and the Mustang is. But coming up with that quib is just lame, as it would be when you run out of retorts and end up shouting "yeah well, umm, nice hair!!!!".


Well I hope you get to go there. America is a fantastic place (I've spent much time there) but your views and idealisms are very different to almost every other country in the world. And squabling over Ford/GM just makes you seem very much like small children crying because someones knocked your ice cream on the floor.

Now I'm happy to call a close to this. As I have no gripe against Mustangs or Ford in general (hell I own a Ford and it's my 2nd) and I will defend ANY car when due. So if someone on here claims GT's are shite and posts up false info I will add my thoughts to it and correct them, using links and example's if needed.

:coolman: .... :beer: ..... :thumbsup:

 

[STKMACH04]

From a roll stock for stock the LS1 GTO would beat the Mach 1 so I wouldn't be so ****y.

Im not being sh#tty at all, just stating facts that the 04 GTO was not what everyone thought it would be. Im not bashing on any LS1 car I used to own a 01 WS6 and will own one again to share the same garage as my Mach 1. One other thing I would never go to an LS1 site with a sig saying Mach 1s kicking arse on 04 GTOs since 03, They would flame the sh#t out of me and call me biased, which I am not. :beer: And to duckfood nice kills.

 

[XCELR8]

One other thing I would never go to an LS1 site with a sig saying Mach 1s kicking arse on 04 GTOs since 03, They would flame the sh#t out of me and call me biased, which I am not.

How's this sig?

The 2005 GTO: Attempting and failing to fill the real GTOs shoe's since 2004.

:shrug:

 

[XCELR8]

P.S. flame on :burn:

 

[TNTramair]

How's this sig?

The 2005 GTO: Attempting and failing to fill the real GTOs shoe's since 2004.

:shrug:

why did it fail?? the new generation GTO's are the 2nd fastest Goats in the family...only the 1964 GTO comes in rated a little quicker from the factory. in true life experiances, the 05 GTO will see high 12'sec runs un stock trim. thats failing??? or is it b/c Goat loyalists condem the car cause it doesnt hold true to its roots?? which is it?

 

[XCELR8]

option #2

each their own though.

 

[ford_racer]

1. All I was trying to point out is that you resort to name calling because you have no other arguments.

2. Exactly what you said. Sales figures were low, so GM replaced it. THE CAMARO WAS NOT SELLING!

3. Evidentally you give a "chuff" since you are sitting here arguing about it.
4. Sorry I got the Jag thing wrong. But the XJ220 is still a cool car. But that wasn't my point. My point was companies kill cars for other reasons besides low sales. The Camaro wasn't one of those cars.

5. Nah, I'm not that determined to prove my point. I'm not going to go look for figures to prove the truth again.

6. Ok we finally agreed on something. But that means that your point that I was replying to was wrong considering you just agreed against it.
7. I never said I owned a Mustang. YAY ASSUMPTIONS!

8. We weren't talking about ho0w you like cars, I was talking about another contradiction. You're arguments are so full of them, it makes you look un-intelligent.

9. Ok for the last time. I WAS NOT BASHING THE CAMARO. All I said is it is not in production for a reason, because it was not selling. Why was it not selling if it w0as such an awesome car?

10. If you have no trouble 0with liking a company, then why were talking negatively about me having pride in Fords? And I don't care about what cars you like, that is irrelevant to this discussion.

11. Yes, this comment is true. But when arguing with someone, don't you think that you come off as intelligent as possible to perhaps show that you aren't talking out of your ass.

12. What do you find funny about what I said? It is true.

13. Salt in coffee! HAHA, I like that one. And the out of production argument is not pointless. Once again, companies do not axe cars they have been selling for years for no reason.

14. I don't want this argument to close, I'm having fun with it. I will say that it is not wrong to have differing views than other people/countries. And you can't say that I sound like a child when squabbling about Ford vs Chevy, because you too were doing just as I was.


And who wouldn't cry if their ice cream got knocked over?

 

[XCELR8]

And who wouldn't cry if their ice cream got knocked over?

I'd cry.

 

[Nick85]

Well for me it isn't a low IQ by a long shot...so I guess I will take Small penis?...Pick the lesser of two wieners is what I always say. :thumbsup: :shrug: :-D

Well hey as long as you're satisfied who cares right :lol:

 

[TNTramair]

ford racer,
give it a rest allready....your argument is based on your opinion..not facts...theres more to the f-body being killed than just poor sales. he explained it to you in his previous post and he was correct. so quit your high school games and let it rest.

 

[Wintermute]

How's this sig?

The 2005 GTO: Attempting and failing to fill the real GTOs shoe's since 2004.

:shrug:

I prefer: GTO - ****ing up a legacy since 2004.

But then I never likes goats in the first place.

 

[ford_racer]

I kno0w this TNT, that's why I said I was arguing my opinion. His is opinion too.

 

[Whitten]

I really don't want to go further into an arguement here but I did want to say that there were seveal factors to why the Camaro died.

First off GM was in a contract with Ste. Therese, Quebec to keep any Camaro models present or future in that plant until 2006. The plant was in desperate need of re doing and was basicly losing GM money due to the fact that labor was costing them more and more money and it was slowly becoming un econmical for them to build it in Canada vs. US.

Second, the SUV boom caused Bob Lutz to turn his head in the full size truck and SUV market which placed the 2 seat mid sized car on a back burner. He completely turned all attention and effort to those vehicles which is one of the reason why they are now in the financial trouble now.

3. Sagging mid size car sales. I can still remember when Mustang GT's were being sold for 19-20 grand fully loaded tax tag and title out the door. Hell my I knew several people who bought 03 Cobras for $30,000 in 2002. They were begging people to take them because they weren't making any money if they weren't moving. GM noticed this trend in the Mustang and just killed several birds with one stone.

The Camaro has been planned to make a return since the day the last 02 rolled off the line back in 01, the only thing that kept it from comming sooner is legal contract of which they entered into with the people of Ste. Therese and the Country of Canada. It would have cost more money to re-tool, and update the existing factory then it would have to just build a brand new more up to date and efficient one...so there it is.

Sorry that is more than likely way more info than you had ever hoped for..but there it is.

 

[300bhp/ton]

10. If you have no trouble 0with liking a company, then why were talking negatively about me having pride in Fords? And I don't care about what cars you like, that is irrelevant to this discussion.

So do you love ALL Fords and think they are all cooler and better than anything else?

Once again, companies do not axe cars they have been selling for years for no reason.

No but the reasons seem to eldue you as it's hardly going to be a black and white snap decision.

As for axing cars, well the Mini was axed after 40 years so was the Aston Martin Vantage, not due to sale although they where low volume but due to the fact they didn't meet the new EU saftey and emissions regulations.

The Honda NSX had such aporling sales in Europe and in one year in the UK I think they sold 6 yet it still remained in production and even underwent a facelift and revision.

One of the most legendary Fords is the Cosworth, yet this was axed. If it was a great car why was it so??? And why hasn't it been replaced?

I really don't see your point or relavance as to what the cease in production of Fbody's has got to do with the car itself or how this transpirers into the Mustang being better (as implied by you)? Please answer this EXACT question.