z28 vs 2003 cobra

[300bhp/ton]

HAHAHAHAHA way to go internet tough guy! You realize that calling people names,

Didn't call you a name, I said don't be a dick not that you where one.

I never said F-bodies weren't great cars, did I? I don't see any comments of mine calling f-bodies bad cars. I like them, just not as much as Mustangs. I'm just making a point that if the public liked the Camaro as much as you do, it might have survived... but then again, it didn't.

What a frigging stupid comment. I like lots of cars and make no claim the Camaro is the best in the world. As for being in production still, umm well lets see, people liked the E-Type Jaguar, acclaimed as one of the best cars ever built. But it's no longer produced anymore, does that mean people stopped liking it?? Or is it more likely that times change and new legislation and regulations.

Also using your logic does that mean car people don't like go out of production, well I see plenty of crap borning run of the mill cars in production out there and nearly all out sell the Mustang. So are they therefore better??

The Mustang is still around. See a correlation between the two?

I see the correlation that you are narrow miinded biased and perhaphs a little short on insight.

OK OK my turn at this whole character assassination thing. And you can't call me an idiot or anything because I am only doing as you do, so therefore you would be calling yourself an idiot. Here we go:

You tell me not to be a dick and assume that you don't like Fords, but then you assume that I bash F-bods.

Well the FACT is I didn't need to ASSUME as you did in FACT bash Fbody's.

So, by your logic, you are a dick. Either you are a dick, or your logic is flawed, you choose.

lol of course....

How much horsepower did the Camaro have in the 70s when the King Cobra had 170?

Really couldn't care less as most American cars sucked during that period (in bhp terms anyhow)

Did it have the same as it does now? No, just like the Mustang doesn't.

Well as you say it (being the Camaro) isn't in production so actually in the 70's it produced a heck of lot more power than it does today.

You assume I know nothing because I am in highschool, and you call me narrow minded? That's bold.

No I don't assume you know nothing, I assumed which you have proven that you are indeed narrow minded and totally biased on nothiing more than loyalty to a company that owes you nothing. I mean does Ford pay for your house, or do you own Ford Motor Co??? Is it Ford that makes you life worth living above all else? If not why show such allegiance?

Nothing wrong with likeing and "correcting" mis-information. But there is taking it too far. And don't think I'm a GM bloke because that sort of shite just doesn't exist in the UK. I defend any car is it's justified, even yesterday on LS1Tech someone was complaining that a GT kept up with them and my reply was it should have under the circumstances and I couldn't understand why they where so complexed. So it goes both ways.

CORRECTIONS!!!!:
1. There are no 12 year olds in highschool, unless they were in advanced placement programs. 13 and 14 year olds are freshmen.

That's nice, but since I'm not in the US I'm hardly likely to know am I.

2. DUDE! Not dood.

WTF this is a internet forum not an English EXAM

3. Realizing, not realizing.

Actually if you want to be picky it should be with an S not a Z but then that might just be getting stupid.

And by the way, I'm 18.

Well done then nearly beyond puberty then. BTW have you ever been outside America?? (That's just a question not an accusation)

 

[STKMACH04]

GH1086 nice sig.

QUOTE]2004 Pontiac GTO - Black on Black - A4 - Lingenfelter CAI
Mach 1's - Getting Their Ass Kicked By LS1's Since 2003. GH1086 nice sig. The 01-02 F Bodies are still kicking the 04 GTOs ass till this day in stock trim, and the Mach1 is doing the same thing to the 04 GTOs in stock trim as well. You should really change your sig.

 

[doodad]

 

[Whitten]

Here's my question...why do so many threads on this site become bitching matches? Seems like everyone on here knows more than the other guy. Low IQ's? Small penis? Must be something.

Well for me it isn't a low IQ by a long shot...so I guess I will take Small penis?...Pick the lesser of two wieners is what I always say. :thumbsup: :shrug: :-D

 

[TORNATIC!!]

I'll tell ya what boys it is a good time to be a gear head. There are plenty of options for us out there. And for people like me who aren't brand specific it makes this new muscle car revolution an amazing time.

Great race and keep it up..."everytime a a muscle car wins a ricer losses his wing."
~Me

I agree. I'm not brand loyal I actually like the Trans AM WS.6 over by GT. My favorite car of all-time is the '03/04 Cobra. I wouldn't mind owning one in a couple years.

 

[TORNATIC!!]

QUOTE]2004 Pontiac GTO - Black on Black - A4 - Lingenfelter CAI
Mach 1's - Getting Their Ass Kicked By LS1's Since 2003. GH1086 nice sig. The 01-02 F Bodies are still kicking the 04 GTOs ass till this day in stock trim, and the Mach1 is doing the same thing to the 04 GTOs in stock trim as well. You should really change your sig.

From a roll stock for stock the LS1 GTO would beat the Mach 1 so I wouldn't be so ****y.

 

[300bhp/ton]

From a roll stock for stock the LS1 GTO would beat the Mach 1 so I wouldn't be so ****y.

I have to say if I was a betting man my money would be on the Mach 1 from a roll against a LS1 powered GTO unless it was at very high speed, say 120-150mph+ as the GTO is slippery enough to top 180mph in European Monaro trim.

Or unless it was the British variant - Monaro VXR. These look like an 05 with the bonnet scoops (optional), but have a body kit and a 385bhp 5.7 LS1. Don't think you guys in America got this variant.

But yeah a STOCK Mach 1 would take a STOCK 5.7 GTO IMO

 

[XCELR8]

I have seen Mach's do the exact same thing but only with drag radials or Slicks cutting a 1.6 60'.

I ran the time in my sig with a 2.0 60', stock. (stock tires too)

From a roll stock for stock the LS1 GTO would beat the Mach 1 so I wouldn't be so ****y.

no.

An LS2 GTO would win from a high speed (90+) roll, but not an LS1.

 

[TNTramair]

for the love of god..my head hurts from reading all this crap.

nice kill to the original poster.

this Ford vs. Gm argument is getting old.

SS's, WS.6's, formulas, z28's, trans ams..will all relatively dyno around the same, in M6 form, to the wheels. my WS.6 dyno'ed low 300's to the wheels and on the same day and dyno a z28 put down more..bone stock. other z28's dyno'ed in the high 290's and a SS also in the low 300's. when your dealing with ls1's, its seems to be the luck of the draw. factory freaks per say. the differance in years dont matter cause where some cars lack they make up for in another area. 00 still had the ls1 intake but b/c of the slightly bigger cam made the same amount of power as the 01-02 cars with ls6 intakes.

in referance to someone's cousin with a supercharged Mach1...that MPH is way high for 463whp...if he only ran a 12.4 that means his 60" was in the 2.3...2.4 region which would explain his high mph....if that car dead hooks it will see a high 11 at about 120.
i eclipse that power by 130ish hp to the wheels and i trap 128.

this conversation is allways fun...keep em coming boys!!

 

[Whitten]

for the love of god..my head hurts from reading all this crap.

nice kill to the original poster.

this Ford vs. Gm argument is getting old.

SS's, WS.6's, formulas, z28's, trans ams..will all relatively dyno around the same, in M6 form, to the wheels. my WS.6 dyno'ed low 300's to the wheels and on the same day and dyno a z28 put down more..bone stock. other z28's dyno'ed in the high 290's and a SS also in the low 300's. when your dealing with ls1's, its seems to be the luck of the draw. factory freaks per say. the differance in years dont matter cause where some cars lack they make up for in another area. 00 still had the ls1 intake but b/c of the slightly bigger cam made the same amount of power as the 01-02 cars with ls6 intakes.

in referance to someone's cousin with a supercharged Mach1...that MPH is way high for 463whp...if he only ran a 12.4 that means his 60" was in the 2.3...2.4 region which would explain his high mph....if that car dead hooks it will see a high 11 at about 120.
i eclipse that power by 130ish hp to the wheels and i trap 128.

this conversation is allways fun...keep em coming boys!!

There it is.

 

[ford_racer]

Didn't call you a name, I said don't be a dick not that you where one.


What a frigging stupid comment. I like lots of cars and make no claim the Camaro is the best in the world. As for being in production still, umm well lets see, people liked the E-Type Jaguar, acclaimed as one of the best cars ever built. But it's no longer produced anymore, does that mean people stopped liking it?? Or is it more likely that times change and new legislation and regulations.

Also using your logic does that mean car people don't like go out of production, well I see plenty of crap borning run of the mill cars in production out there and nearly all out sell the Mustang. So are they therefore better??


I see the correlation that you are narrow miinded biased and perhaphs a little short on insight.


Well the FACT is I didn't need to ASSUME as you did in FACT bash Fbody's.


lol of course....


Really couldn't care less as most American cars sucked during that period (in bhp terms anyhow)


Well as you say it (being the Camaro) isn't in production so actually in the 70's it produced a heck of lot more power than it does today.


No I don't assume you know nothing, I assumed which you have proven that you are indeed narrow minded and totally biased on nothiing more than loyalty to a company that owes you nothing. I mean does Ford pay for your house, or do you own Ford Motor Co??? Is it Ford that makes you life worth living above all else? If not why show such allegiance?

Nothing wrong with likeing and "correcting" mis-information. But there is taking it too far. And don't think I'm a GM bloke because that sort of shite just doesn't exist in the UK. I defend any car is it's justified, even yesterday on LS1Tech someone was complaining that a GT kept up with them and my reply was it should have under the circumstances and I couldn't understand why they where so complexed. So it goes both ways.


That's nice, but since I'm not in the US I'm hardly likely to know am I.


WTF this is a internet forum not an English EXAM


Actually if you want to be picky it should be with an S not a Z but then that might just be getting stupid.



Well done then nearly beyond puberty then. BTW have you ever been outside America?? (That's just a question not an accusation)

1. You called me narrow minded.

2. So are you saying that Chevy killed the Camaro because of new legislation? That's a crock. They killed it because it was not selling, plain and simple. The Jaguar was probably nixed because it was a special car and they wanted to keep the value up, just like the XJ220, just like the SVT Cobra R ('00), just like the ZR-1 and Grand Sport C4 Vettes. Companies don't always kill them for legislation. Companies don't always kill because of sales, but in the case of the Camaro, they did this time.

3. The fact that run of the mill cars outsell the Mustang is because they are more practical than the Mustang for the normal consumer who is not interested in performance. Does that mean it is better than the Mustang? No. Does that mean that it is better for that certain owner? Yes.

4. How did I bash F-bodies? Did I ever once call them slow, unreliable, or ugly? No, and I'm not doing it now. Therefore you ASSUME that I think they are bad cars.

5. So if you couldn't care less, than why did you even bring up the fact that the Mustang II King Cobra had only 170 bhp? Because you do care. That's simple psychology for you there.

6. That was a weak attempt. You fully understood what I meant by that, and you are just trying to make a point.

7. Once again you are resorting to undue remarks about me. You do not know me, so therefore you are talking out of your ass. You call me biased for arguing my opinion against yours, yet you are doing the same exact thing. So, once again according to your logic, you must be biased. And you ask why I have such an allegiance to Ford... it has nothing to do with houses or the owning of FoMoCo, it's the fact that I like the cars they build, with the Mustang being at the top of my list. Do you not have a favorite car? Why are you talking in such a negative way about me liking Ford? This is one point I simply cannot comprehend.

8. I just thought you would like to know that if you are trying to argue a point, you should try and seem as intelligent as you can. Lack of vocab, spelling skills, and general grammar skills are a sign of a lack of intelligence. People do not tend to believe the opinions of others if they seem less intelligent, because the opinions seem just that, less intelligent.

9. Is there a problem with being 18? Or are you just trying to de-moralize me?

Edit: Sorry I missed your question. No I haven't been out of the US, unless you count the ocean on the Californian coast because I have been in the ocean, but only about 100 or so feet of the beach. If I could choose anywhere to go, I would choose Germany and I would try and visit the Mercedes-Benz and BMW headquarters. Then I would take a trip to the Nurburgring and then go drive around on the Autobahn. Big dreams, empty wallet.

 

[WillyBob98]

in referance to someone's cousin with a supercharged Mach1...that MPH is way high for 463whp...if he only ran a 12.4 that means his 60" was in the 2.3...2.4 region which would explain his high mph....if that car dead hooks it will see a high 11 at about 120.
i eclipse that power by 130ish hp to the wheels and i trap 128.

this conversation is allways fun...keep em coming boys!!

Im not messing around i saw him run at 124mph, i will post the video if i can get my hands on it. With d/r's he ran 11.8 at 123 still spinning but not as bad. I never could understand how his mph was so high either. Or the fact that he has so much more HP then a cobra does stock.

 

[WillyBob98]

Wow a little testy aren't we...

Hold your cheerios there guy, it was all in the interest of a good conversation here no need for you to get in a twist and start getting angry and quote Edmunds (sorry had to).

I am appauled that you would call me a Jerk because I drive a Gm car from time to time. :cryying: I drive them all bud, and when I say all I mean all. I love every muscle car there is and for what it is. Don't think so narrowly of me just because I happen to know just as much about both cars. I just have some very deep roots in the Muscle car world and happen to be around them a whole lot so I know when people are using info that they heard or got from an internet site.

Seriously don't get so mad about this and don't say things that you don't are absolutely truthful like facts and figures about a car you are lible to get your called on it.

Its cool man I just get on the deffensive as soon as i see Gm guys on here talkin smack. But this is a different situation and I over reacted. I hate when people act like idiots on my threads but i went ahead and started another ford vs. gm argument. So sorry, and good kill man.

 

[ford_racer]

I like Ford v GM arguments. Actually, I just like arguments in general.

 

[Whitten]

I like Ford v GM arguments. Actually, I just like arguments in general.

They can be fun...I mean where else are you going to tell someone that they either have a low IQ or a small penis and actually make them chose between the the two :smmon:

 

[TNTramair]

Im not messing around i saw him run at 124mph, i will post the video if i can get my hands on it. With d/r's he ran 11.8 at 123 still spinning but not as bad. I never could understand how his mph was so high either. Or the fact that he has so much more HP then a cobra does stock.

its defenitly doable, dont get me wrong, i never said it was impossible and it didnt happen...i just think its quite a bit for the power it layed down...turbo and superchared cars tend to have better top ends than low end power which will translate to good mph. 8 psi is a ton on a v8 with 10 or so to 1 compression ratio (not sure what the ford CP is on that motor). even with DR's his 60 is still probably in the 2.0 range so mph will be higher...good times and mph non the less. :beer:

 

[TNTramair]

They can be fun...I mean where else are you going to tell someone that they either have a low IQ or a small penis and actually make them chose between the the two :smmon:

some have both.... :bash:

 

[300bhp/ton]

1. You called me narrow minded.

Truth hurts does it. Well lets just look over what you've written and it will be evident.

2. So are you saying that Chevy killed the Camaro because of new legislation?

There where many many factors, some political some moneytary based. Essentially the Fbody went south because it wasn't going to meet the latest crash regulations (this is also a major part why the sn95 HAD to be replaced). Sales figure where low in this sector (including the Mustang) so GM decided not to replace it at that time. Now the market has picked up in this area it is once more more lucrative, hence GM quickly introduced the GTO as it didn't involve any development costs and was quick to introduce to market.

This is nothing new, as in the early 90's Ford bosses where going to axe the Mustang (it was even announced to an extent) and it's replacement in the Ford line up was to be the Ford probe. However some enthusiasts at Ford worked on the quiet and came up with the rebodied 1994 sn95 model. With it's new looks but cheap production costs utilising existing components (platform, suspension, drivetrain, engine) it was kept in production.

But never forget the Mustang came right to the edge of also being discontinued.

That's a crock. They killed it because it was not selling, plain and simple.

Once again who gives a chuff. I didn't buy a car based on how many other people own one. I buy a car based on what it offers and how it looks.

Are you a sad little person who can only bear to have what is popular and be totally unable to choose and decide for yourself??

The Jaguar was probably nixed because it was a special car and they wanted to keep the value up, just like the XJ220

Are you dumb?? Or do you just not know what an E-Type is? It survived 3 generations, 3 different engine line ups, coupe, roadster, 2+2 Coupe and 2+2 roadster variants from the early 60's all the way into the 70's. It was nothing at all like the XJ220. And aside from that the XJ220 was one of the biggest commercial flops ever. As it was launched just as the bubble burst on the yuppy era. £400,000 cars where being sold off NEW for £150,000. Learn your facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just like the SVT Cobra R ('00), just like the ZR-1 and Grand Sport C4 Vettes. Companies don't always kill them for legislation. Companies don't always kill because of sales, but in the case of the Camaro, they did this time.

If you are so determined PROVE IT show me sales figures show me a statement from GM.

3. The fact that run of the mill cars outsell the Mustang is because they are more practical than the Mustang for the normal consumer who is not interested in performance. Does that mean it is better than the Mustang? No. Does that mean that it is better for that certain owner? Yes.

I agree with this, but it DOES contridict what you where saying, you simply can not have it both ways - choose!

4. How did I bash F-bodies? Did I ever once call them slow, unreliable, or ugly? No, and I'm not doing it now. Therefore you ASSUME that I think they are bad cars.

Thinking they are bad and bashing is NOT the same thing. You where trying to be high and mighty "Well my car is better than yours because it's still in production" - that is shear folly and arogance.

5. So if you couldn't care less, than why did you even bring up the fact that the Mustang II King Cobra had only 170 bhp? Because you do care. That's simple psychology for you there.

No. I simply care, like and enjoy cars. The late 70's early 80's where not the hay day for American performance cars and sadly the Mustang at that time was a joke. It was very very ugly and bland and at one point didn't even come with a V8. It was an embarrisment to its legacy. And many claim it is the period to forget and it would have been better if Ford had dropped the name so as not to disgrace it.

Fortunantly the 80's saw a return of performance and eventually of the good looking very desirable Mustang.

I mean if at the end of the year Ford axed the current Mustang and replaced it with an ugly poor handling bland machine with only a 2.5 V6 and 2.0 turbo with 220bhp to offer, would you still want one??

7. Once again you are resorting to undue remarks about me. You do not know me, so therefore you are talking out of your ass. You call me biased for arguing my opinion against yours, yet you are doing the same exact thing. So, once again according to your logic, you must be biased. And you ask why I have such an allegiance to Ford... it has nothing to do with houses or the owning of FoMoCo, it's the fact that I like the cars they build, with the Mustang being at the top of my list. Do you not have a favorite car? Why are you talking in such a negative way about me liking Ford? This is one point I simply cannot comprehend.

I have no trouble with people liking a company, but when they bash another based on the sole purpose of it not being the company they like it is only a sign of a de-evolving human race and interlect.

I like Ford, but not every Ford ever built because many of them are complete mundane dogs. But GM builds just as many dogs, and Dodge, Rover, BMW and so on.

I like each car based on IT, what IT is, what IT can do, what IT looks like. Not who builds IT.

As for a fav car, well no not one. But a top 5 (in no order):
-Aston Martin Vantage twin supercharged V8
-s197 Mustang GT
-Land Rover 90
-1977 Trans Am
-Gordon Keeble

8. I just thought you would like to know that if you are trying to argue a point, you should try and seem as intelligent as you can. Lack of vocab, spelling skills, and general grammar skills are a sign of a lack of intelligence.

Intelligence has many levels, being able to spell is not automatically one of them Albert Einstein was illiterate.

People do not tend to believe the opinions of others if they seem less intelligent, because the opinions seem just that, less intelligent.

:lol1:

9. Is there a problem with being 18? Or are you just trying to de-moralize me?

No, no problem I was 18 not that many years ago. I admit I may have been a little harsh before - sorry - but the thing is the world is a big place with many many cultures. And Ford v GM is as stupid as putting salt in your coffee. And your comment about "ha which ones still in production" followed that pointless train of thought. I mean YES I know and so does everyone else that the Fbody isn't made anymore and the Mustang is. But coming up with that quib is just lame, as it would be when you run out of retorts and end up shouting "yeah well, umm, nice hair!!!!".

Edit: Sorry I missed your question. No I haven't been out of the US, unless you count the ocean on the Californian coast because I have been in the ocean, but only about 100 or so feet of the beach. If I could choose anywhere to go, I would choose Germany and I would try and visit the Mercedes-Benz and BMW headquarters. Then I would take a trip to the Nurburgring and then go drive around on the Autobahn. Big dreams, empty wallet.

Well I hope you get to go there. America is a fantastic place (I've spent much time there) but your views and idealisms are very different to almost every other country in the world. And squabling over Ford/GM just makes you seem very much like small children crying because someones knocked your ice cream on the floor.

Now I'm happy to call a close to this. As I have no gripe against Mustangs or Ford in general (hell I own a Ford and it's my 2nd) and I will defend ANY car when due. So if someone on here claims GT's are shite and posts up false info I will add my thoughts to it and correct them, using links and example's if needed.

 

[Slo65]

:waits on smackdown:

 

[WillyBob98]

its defenitly doable, dont get me wrong, i never said it was impossible and it didnt happen...i just think its quite a bit for the power it layed down...turbo and superchared cars tend to have better top ends than low end power which will translate to good mph. 8 psi is a ton on a v8 with 10 or so to 1 compression ratio (not sure what the ford CP is on that motor). even with DR's his 60 is still probably in the 2.0 range so mph will be higher...good times and mph non the less. :beer:

Its cool, i didnt think you were calling a lier on anything.....some people can bullshit their ass off though so i understand you questioning it.