Depressing!

[CPRsm]

Nothing wrong with you guys liking your Toyota's, it's your prerogative...

But in the meantime, as the major profits from these import sales go over seas,
take your asses with it ! This country doesn't need this crap... and don't give
me the line about "They're built here and support families here"... because we
can fill these factories with American goods...

It's unfortunate you see it your way so blindly. Ever looked where Ford parts are made ? LOTS, LOTS of them are made in Mexico. So you take Mexican parts, make it outside the country, and because it's a US owned company, you think that's better for us ? I would rather give my money to the American families, than American corporations. Let's break this down so there is no loyalty confusion.

One man owns turbo company in US. Said person imports kit and parts that are made overseas, resells for profit. Only owned by him, only his profit.

Next company imports parts, employees 4 people to build said kits, but profits go back over seas. Which company does better for our people ?

This is about as close as it comes since damn near all the parts are made over seas for any company. Garrett inter cooler on the GT500's ? Guess what ? Mehicoooooo

I'm 100% for buying American if it's a better product, or at least equal to. But I'm not going to spend money on something ONLY because it's made here. That's how our reputation for quality suffered in the first place. American companies fell back on their laurels, and it bit us in the ass with shit product. I don't doubt the F150 quality at all though. It just doesn't come close to filling my needs like the Superman truck.

I'd buy 3 raggedy ass Chevrolet's before ANY foreign country EVER saw my
dollar from me buying one of their vehicles... BELIEVE THAT !

Yep, keep supporting a company with your money tied up in it that takes the money and tries to immediately claim bankruptcy. Yep, better idea.

And hey, while you're driving your SUPERMAN Tundra to a port in California,
why don't you stop at a BP station and fill up, too, while you're at it...:nonono:

:lol: I'll push over a few old ladies and club baby seals for fun while I'm at it.

By the way Ford is selling 6 times as many F150's but after looking in the service departments of both you would have thought Toyota was selling more by how many they had in their service bay.

No matter what side your arguing, that general statement means nothing. Only problem my truck ever had was the radio. Your assumption that every truck in the service bay MUST be being repaired is nothing short of an absolute guess at best. Hell, there could be 10 times as many ford service departments. So the load would be higher at each Yota department. Come on.

 

['08jonsinfor11]

To the so called Toyota tech the weak frame is not only pointed out in the Ford videos it is well know by Toyota they just do not want to own up to it. As a tech you should know about the bed bounce that happens between 55 to 65 on the tundra's on the highway, my friends Tundra does it and you can feel it. The dealership told him its common and they do not have a fix yet. All I was stating was what I have seen and heard at a Toyota dealership's service department..

Then you're not listening to EVERYTHING. ALL trucks hobby horse over concrete freeway expansion joints. In fact the long term Ford test from MOTOR TREND complained about the 150 doing the exact same thing. There is absolutely a Toyota TSB concerning the "bounce" and it has NOTHING to do with the frame.....they replace the cab mounts with softer rubber. In fact, GM has a very similar TSB for their trucks concerning the ride.

Truth be told, I think the Toyota TSB stinks because if you're out of warranty you have to pay......I don't agree with that.


Ask your Ford tech friend about the increasing number of 150 complaints concerning vibration......Ford says it's "normal for a truck"....LOL!!!

By the way Ford is selling 6 times as many F150's .

Ummmm......no they're not. The numbers posted are for "F-SERIES" trucks.

This includes 150's/250's/350's/450's/550's/ Chassis cabs/diesels etc......many more variations than just the 1/2 ton Tundra. Yes, the 150 still outsells the Tundra handily but it's no where near "6 times" and Ford has many more fleet accounts than Toyota.

but after looking in the service departments of both you would have thought Toyota was selling more by how many they had in their service bay. From what I have learned it's the opposite of what you say Toyota goes to great lengths to hide problems. Ford does allot better at fixing issues with their products from what I have seen.

You are biased and have little experience. Ford is still recalling cruise control relays that were causing fires on vehicles over 10 years old. They put their head in the sand until forced to fix it......My 10 year old Ford motorhome chassis has this open recall.

Look up CPS (cam position sensor) for the old 7.3 PSD, quite a story there.
Ford was charging 100's of dollars to replace that simple part. After the recall, it magically became a $30 part. Most 7.3PSD owners carry a spare CPS and 10mm wrench because of that weak design.

We won't go into the Ford/Firestone incident.....unless you want to.

Shall we research the GT-500 clutch stories??


I'm not intimating Toyota doesn't do the same things, but please don't put Ford on some magic pedestal; they're as guilty as any corporation.

I own neither vehicles

So how can you argue??? I've owned both. So far the Tundra is the least problematic vehicle I've ever owned. I've had the TSB done on the front diff....the irony is the front diff is a DANA part: YUP, made in the USA.

My wife's '07 Fusion has actually left us stranded 3 times .....Unfortunately, in my state the lemon law is 4X's before replacement. Fortunately, the car is gone now.

just looking right now and the Ford is at the top of the list so far. I want to drive one the ecoboost and the 6.2 in a Lariat limited.

I can't wait for the new motors. However, as we are writing; the Ford powertrain is embarrassing.

Since you spend so much time at the dealerships, why not drive 'em back to back instead of listening to what others say.......use your own judgement.

I'm glad you like your Tundra it's just from what I have seen Ford has nowhere near as many problems with their current Trucks as Toyota does. By the way Mustang has 65% domestic content not 50%. That's all I got to say.

You list a LOT of 1st year stuff on the Tundra and try to sensationalize it to make your point. The camshaft comment in particular.....happened to less than 30 trucks and Toyota replaced ENTIRE motors. Ford does not do things that way. They rely more on machines to tell the tech what to replace which a lot of times results in shotgun troubleshooting. My GT-500 took 3 trips to finally get the alternator replaced.......Why??? Because the "machine" said it was fine. (or the tech didn't know how to use the tool)

I did say +- 50% on the Mustang......I may have confused it with the Fusion which has 50% and is made in mexico!!!

Check on the Tundra's US content.............hint; it's around 80%!!!




EDIT:


Next time you're loitering around the Toyota service department, have 'em run this:

TSB#0270-10.










GM's answer:


Subject: Suspension Vibration or Frame Beaming at 40-60 mph (64 - 80 km/h)
Models: 1999-2009 Chevrolet Silverado and Silverado Classic
1999-2009 GMC Sierra and Sierra Classic

Condition/Concern:
Beam shake vibration is usually felt in the seat and occurring at speeds between 40-50 mph (64 - 80 km/h).

Recommendation/Instructions:
•Test drive vehicle to confirm the condition. A beam shake condition will usually respond to concrete type pavements more than asphalt, so the vehicle should be driven over both surfaces if possible.
•Place 200-500 pounds in the pickup bed between the closed tailgate and the wheel wells. A beaming condition should dissipate.

If the concern is determined to be beam shake, this is a characteristic of the vehicle. GM Engineering has released updated body mounts to reducing this concern for the Crew and Extended Cab Models.



Like said earlier, search the web and they all have their problems:


http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/998827-found-source-of-vibration.html


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/1008_2009_ford_f150_4x4_supercrew_verdict/reviews.html


From the above article:


Some staffers found the F-150's ride, when unloaded, "near unbearable." Others judged ride quality to be at least on par with a sedan's. Most agreed that loading the truck subdued any ride transgressions noticeably.





http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_1002_2009_ford_f150_update_5/index.html


From the above link, but my EXACT feeling concerning the CURRENT 150......the 6.2L can't get here soon enough!!! (for the rest of the lineup)


"I hauled the F-150 out to Diamond Bar to pick up a pair of couches last night," says Associate Web Producer Scott Evans, "and came away with mixed impressions. It's a good-looking truck inside and out and some of Ford's low-tech features are exceedingly useful, but the truck has its drawbacks. The ride on broken freeways is disappointing, with lots of shaking and vibrating. I'm also not particularly impressed with the 5.4-liter V-8 engine. This is a big, heavy truck, and you can feel that weight every time you accelerate. Throw some large pieces of furniture in the bed and the lack of power becomes even more pronounced, especially when entering a freeway. I'm sure the truck can tow the 11,000 pounds Ford says it can, but they don't mention how long it will take you to get anywhere if you do." Evans, obviously, is one of many eagerly awaiting the F-150's upcoming 6.2-liter V-8.

 

['08jonsinfor11]

I'm going to go with (B) Ignorant

You haven't read my post or can't comprehend, either way Your going on my ignore list.

And concerning you, I'll go with:

A) liar.

It's proven that figures don't lie but liars figure........and your figures just don't add up.

 

[NiteMareGT]

HAHAHAHA @ the Tundra Guys...

It amazes me how blind YOU guys are...

I never said buying a Ford ended all of our economic WOES, nor did I ever insinuate
that a lot of parts on Ford vehicles weren't foreign... Jeezus....

You're missing the point, by leaps and bounds...

The issue we have with foreign imports continues to perpetuate into a much
larger problem over time because of US... you, me, and your grandmother
shopping at WALLY WORLD looking for a Sunday sweater...

At what point do we stop? At what point do we say NO MORE? The less we
buy these imported goods OR give our hard earned dollars for ASIAN profits
overseas, the better our chance of opening up factories to produce those
SAME commodities HERE. It's basic friggin economics...

But SOME of you don't seem to care and INSIST on stretching the
comparative differences between similar truck models to passify your mind,
helping yourself to justify your purchase. Whatever you need to do fellas...

You cannot win this argument... Just keep digging this country into a deeper
and deeper hole because your whole argument is that a Ford has an
alternator on it "Hecho en Mexico" and therefore isn't as American as I think...
That alternator WOULD be American built if we QUIT BUYING FORIEGN
GOODS dealing with every facet of our lives !! Americans want more jobs and
a better economy but HOW DARE WE have to compromise to get us on the
right track... Typical...:nonono:

 

['08jonsinfor11]

HAHAHAHA @ the Tundra Guys...

It amazes me how blind YOU guys are...

I never said buying a Ford ended all of our economic WOES, nor did I ever insinuate
that a lot of parts on Ford vehicles weren't foreign... Jeezus....

You're missing the point, by leaps and bounds...

The issue we have with foreign imports continues to perpetuate into a much
larger problem over time because of US... you, me, and your grandmother
shopping at WALLY WORLD looking for a Sunday sweater...

At what point do we stop? At what point do we say NO MORE? The less we
buy these imported goods OR give our hard earned dollars for ASIAN profits
overseas, the better our chance of opening up factories to produce those
SAME commodities HERE. It's basic friggin economics...

But SOME of you don't seem to care and INSIST on stretching the
comparative differences between similar truck models to passify your mind,
helping yourself to justify your purchase. Whatever you need to do fellas...

You cannot win this argument... Just keep digging this country into a deeper
and deeper hole because your whole argument is that a Ford has an
alternator on it "Hecho en Mexico" and therefore isn't as American as I think...
That alternator WOULD be American built if we QUIT BUYING FORIEGN
GOODS dealing with every facet of our lives !! Americans want more jobs and
a better economy but HOW DARE WE have to compromise to get us on the
right track... Typical...:nonono:

Begs the question:

What came 1st; the chicken or the egg?


GM/Ford/Chrysler (who knows what country those profits go to:rollseyes) have been importing crap looong before this current financial mess.

All three companies have/had joint ventures where they shared platforms and rebadged models with the Asians.


My favorite was when the snake oil salesman, Iacocca(sp?) screamed to all to buy American when 75% of his cars had Mitsubishi motors in them. (they also used VW drivetrains in some models)

Who needs to take the lead??? The consumer?? Or the company that gets bailout money and builds Buicks in China??


Regarding the auto industry, it's a classic case of do as I say, not as I do.


BTW, the Tundra is NOT imported and don't confuse the issue with low quality Wally World Chinese crap.


Believe it or not, I'm still a Ford guy.......The GT-500, F-53 motorhome chassis, and dozens of past cars and trucks prove that.

I just felt when looking at 1/2 tons the Tundra blew everyone away at the time. Ford is way ahead now in gadgets and is a drivetrain away in catching up. Will look again when the time comes.....even though the F-150 has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY in American content.

 

[BLK93GT]

I hate to say it but the Fusion and Milan are VERY reliable and get high ratings because of it. My cousin has an '08 Milan with 84,000 miles on it already and the only issue it had was a coil because of him pressure washing the engine bay!!! Other than that, oil changes and front brakes THATS IT.

My gf has a Fusion, and same with her car. Never a single issue. I did front brakes on it and rear pads, thats it.

 

[Tob]

Oops, sorry. I thought this was the GT500 forum.

 

['08jonsinfor11]

I hate to say it but the Fusion and Milan are VERY reliable and get high ratings because of it. My cousin has an '08 Milan with 84,000 miles on it already and the only issue it had was a coil because of him pressure washing the engine bay!!! Other than that, oil changes and front brakes THATS IT.

My gf has a Fusion, and same with her car. Never a single issue. I did front brakes on it and rear pads, thats it.

Mine was so-so.

The 3 times I was talking about was the dealer trusting a machine to diagnose a problem instead of common sense. It would lose all coolant periodically which would fail safe the motor into shutting down. After replacing a recovery tank cap, then next a thermostat they finally figured the tank had a small leak in it.

The best problem was when somehow the wiring under the steering wheel got crossed up and on right turns the horn would stick!!!

Besides the various chrome interior pieces peeling (shift lever/door handles) not too much more to complain about in 45,000 miles.


Back to the GT-500 for Tob, anyone else have their coil covers' finish start bubbling?? Service writer took a picture, Ford claims they never got it and now wants me to bring it in again.

 

[CPRsm]

I never said buying a Ford ended all of our economic WOES, nor did I ever insinuate
that a lot of parts on Ford vehicles weren't foreign... Jeezus....

Doesn't matter if you did or didn't. Point is your comparing where the money goes, but only bring up a small part of it because the other part of it doesn't fit your argument.

At what point do we stop? At what point do we say NO MORE? The less we
buy these imported goods OR give our hard earned dollars for ASIAN profits
overseas, the better our chance of opening up factories to produce those
SAME commodities HERE. It's basic friggin economics...

It's a good point. But the Asian market has made our market pull their head out of their ass for many things.

But SOME of you don't seem to care and INSIST on stretching the
comparative differences between similar truck models to passify your mind,
helping yourself to justify your purchase. Whatever you need to do fellas...

I'm not doing it passify anything. I don't feel bad about it or loose sleep, whether I explain it to your or anyone else. Ford can;t do what I need, LOL @ Dodge, and I will avoid GM at all costs out of principle. Just like the Citibank account I closed. I refuse to spend my hard earned money on an inferior product just because it's made in America. Just the same as i don't expect someone to buy my product if it was inferior, JUST because of the same.
I do think it's funny walmart always comes up. Like all they sell is from overseas, or that other companies don't do it. Everyone does it, not everyone that shops there is evil. My wife buys groceries there because they are cheaper. But does not buy the 2 dollar teddy bears. Complain about dollar stores or somewhere that ONLY sells china made products.

 

[BLK93GT]

Mine was so-so.

The 3 times I was talking about was the dealer trusting a machine to diagnose a problem instead of common sense. It would lose all coolant periodically which would fail safe the motor into shutting down. After replacing a recovery tank cap, then next a thermostat they finally figured the tank had a small leak in it.

The best problem was when somehow the wiring under the steering wheel got crossed up and on right turns the horn would stick!!!

Besides the various chrome interior pieces peeling (shift lever/door handles) not too much more to complain about in 45,000 miles.


Back to the GT-500 for Tob, anyone else have their coil covers' finish start bubbling?? Service writer took a picture, Ford claims they never got it and now wants me to bring it in again.

Alot of it is because of "technicians" not always having common sense. I used to see it ALL the time when I worked in parts for a GM/Subaru dealer. It was comical.

My Harley F150 had the interior chrome peel but that was at around 150k+ miles.

I have never heard of that issue with the GT500....