MT: Shelby VS ZL1 on Laguna Seca

[Neos281]

Well, they finally released the test results of the '13 Shelby GT500 versus the '12 ZL1 on The Street, The Strip and The Track. Without giving away the results, it looks like both are winners although race-car driver Randy Pobst prefers one over the other (you can probably guess which one)!

We recently set out to determine which of these two titans -- arguably the greatest cars of their lineage -- is the better car. We took the 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 and to the street, the dragstrip, and the racetrack. In each venue, the two heavyweights squared off, and where each corner may have expected a knockout, we were treated to a true competition far closer than we expected.

Read more: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 - Motor Trend

Video Featuring MT Editor and Randy Pobst

[youtube_browser]FF-db7bX9LI[/youtube_browser]

 

[Darth Racer]

As others have stated, 99% of the encounters between the Shelby & ZL1 will be on the street or strip. The Shelby wins those hands down. On the road course it's about even. The Shelby is the clear 'real world' winner, but it seems common sense is dead.

 

[Chris!]

So faster 1/4, and faster lap time- even with "uneasy feeling" brakes.

But the Camaro is "easier to drive" that's subjective.


As for the brakes- i hammered on mine for 11miles on and off on the tail of the dragon and had no issues. But this is a little bit concerning. Im willing to bet its brake fluid.

I know Van changed out his break fluid before going to Sebring. Maybe the stock fluid sucks?

Van- can you chime in on that?

 

[Yellow03snake]

So, what I gather is......... If you want to lose in comfort, buy a ZL1

 

[honcho_44]

I'm still curious how the GT500 can win every category that isn't subjective, but lose overall. I found it funny that they used boxing references, Pacquiao knows how the GT500 feels!

 

[flyby763]

Notice how much time the zl1 gains in the corners. The gt500 pulls away on the straight portions and then loses it cornering....tells me a lot about which car handles better, unfortunately.

 

[Formula51]

I think this is the first review where I have seen the editors favor the turn-in and steering feel of the GT500 over the ZL1. Everything else was relatively the same as what we have seen, except for some of the on track results. I have been waiting for Randy to drive these two.

It is good to finally start seeing some more respectable times from the ZL1 as we all thought/knew it had to be capable of given what the CTS-V has done. 12.1 @ 117.4mph in this test and we just saw 12.3 @ 119mph from Car and Driver in a recent test. The GT500 on the other hand has been consistently fast from day one in the 11.5-11.8 range at 123-126mph, which is truly incredible.

A lot of people on here have been begging for people to run these cars on the track for more than one hero lap. Some people claiming that the Camaro will heat soak so bad it wouldn't make it around the track on lap two! hehe Nice to see MotorTrend do some of that:

While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second.

Remember that brake cooling we all talked about that was missing from the GT500's Track Package? It also makes me questions Ford's pad choice. I didn't see any mention of bad heat soak from either car, which puts that issue to rest some.

It was interesting to hear Randy say this:

Still, he summed up the ZL1 by saying "The body motions are all extremely well-controlled. It's at home on the racetrack."

It looks like the Torsen differential in the GT500 Performance Package is really doing its job:

"It doesn't spin the back tires badly at all for its power output," Pobst reported. "Really impressive traction. It puts down the power extremely well. Using second gear off of turn two, the Shelby could take a lot of throttle and just drive off the corner. It didn't have the snap power oversteer issue in second gear that the Camaro does."

I still would never call a heavy supercharged car a track car, but it sounds like the ZL1 is ready for some aggressive HPDE events straight from the factory and the GT500 may benefit from some brake cooling duct or perhaps a simple pad and fluid upgrade would be enough. Similarly, the GT500's SRA is ready for some aggressive drag strip launches right from Ford and the ZL1's IRS may not live very long doing the same.

Even though I understand why, I am very surprised to see the ZL1 winning all these comparisons. Typically, comparisons go in favor of the new kid on the block and with 662hp, incredible drag strip times, and great track times, I don't understand why so many editors are choosing the ZL1. For a car driven mostly on the street, I would take a GT500 all day from the results I am seeing. I think the base suspension is even the way to go (better wheels too) if you plan on doing very little or no HPDE as it will probably ride nicer on the street. Put some better fluid and pads on for a track day and it would still be a ton of fun.

These reviews really make me want to spend a week with both and experience the difference for myself, sadly I don't have the ability to do that so I will have to take their word and the word of owners. Enjoy your cars guys!

 

[RRDave]

I'm curious how these times compare to the Boss 302, anyone know?

 

[thePill]

The 2013 GT500 produced a 0.9 second lap faster than the 2012 Boss 302 LS at Laguna. The fastest lap recorded during the press release last year was 1:39.50 by R&T I believe.

 

[DBK]

You can't read anything into how marketing cars behave after a couple of laps. If you think the same GT500 that Car and Driver said "precisely controllable as it's fade-free brakes, now 15" Brembos in front with 6 piston calipers," had the brakes burning off after 1 lap for Motor Trend, I've got news for you: Magazines try to **** cars up by abusing them to death. There's no telling what they were doing to the car before they set their lap times. I've watched magazine interns that barely look old enough to have a license do standing start dump clutch mile runs in Turbo Lamborghinis. It's just not realistic to assume that the same GT500 that SVT and a bunch of media day journalists can pummel on a track all day long would fry after a lap.

 

[tbi0904]

I thought it was a fair review. Good explanations for why they chose what they chose. ZL1's a damned nice car but the GT500 is a beast!

 

[Carbd86GT]

I'm still curious how the GT500 can win every category that isn't subjective, but lose overall. I found it funny that they used boxing references, Pacquiao knows how the GT500 feels!

I found a picture of them!...

I don't get it either, but whatever, let the ZL1 win the mags, we'll win on the streets and tracks. :beer:

 

[x99blacksnakex]

I don't get it either, but whatever, let the ZL1 win the mags, we'll win on the streets and tracks. :beer:

+1

No matter how many magazine reviews give the victory to the ZL1 because it "feels better", that won't stop the onslaught of Youtube videos where the ZL1 gets slaughtered by the GT500.

 

[Devious_Snake]

Ok I got it now.....dont buy the car thats faster, get the one thats more comfortable....right

no surprise the zl1 goes around turns faster, Magic MRC right?
yet the GT500 was able to beat it around the track, defying physics with its archaic SRA? then the "one lap hero argument"...isnt that what the zl1 did at the 'ring? the famous benchmark for C5 enthusiasts? I had already predicted Randy would like the zl1 more for ease of driving....im surprised at the brake failure...makes me wonder what car they were using and how

either way the GT500 is the better performance car, so if the zl1 wants to claim victory in ride quality so be it...im waiting for the first moron at a meet to proudly proclaim "well my car rides better than yours" so I can laugh in his face op:

 

[dtheo]

Notice how much time the zl1 gains in the corners. The gt500 pulls away on the straight portions and then loses it cornering....tells me a lot about which car handles better, unfortunately.

Damn Magnetic ride, now its time for the IRS in the 2015?:beer:

 

[bpmurr]

Well at least we know Ford should be making a good IRS setup a priority for the 2015. If so the it's truly lights out Camaro.

 

[sknapp302]

Well at least we know Ford should be making a good IRS setup a priority for the 2015. If so the it's truly lights out Camaro.

It will still be truly subjective unfortunately. As a die hard drag racer I will miss the SRA, but I guess it is time for the Mustang to evolve. Maybe the next Camaro wont have push rods. lol

 

[islander033]

MT has made it official. The ZL1 is a beast 0-40mph and in parking lot tests.

Since when does 4-10 win a competition?:bs:

 

[Ninjak]

Its interesting to see the GT500 actually outrun the ZL1 on the track. If you wanted to track the car, then brake fluid, pads would be needed for the GT500. But in essence this car was built for the 1/4. Sure it can go around a curve, but it was built to go fast in a straight line. That is what it was marketed for, and that is what it does very very well.

 

[Formula51]

You can't read anything into how marketing cars behave after a couple of laps. If you think the same GT500 that Car and Driver said "precisely controllable as it's fade-free brakes, now 15" Brembos in front with 6 piston calipers," had the brakes burning off after 1 lap for Motor Trend, I've got news for you: Magazines try to **** cars up by abusing them to death. There's no telling what they were doing to the car before they set their lap times. I've watched magazine interns that barely look old enough to have a license do standing start dump clutch mile runs in Turbo Lamborghinis. It's just not realistic to assume that the same GT500 that SVT and a bunch of media day journalists can pummel on a track all day long would fry after a lap.

I agree it does make you wonder, but whatever the abuse this GT500 did or did not see, it didn't handle it and its brakes faded. An aggressive driver on a track like LS will show any cars short comings. Perhaps this was an anomaly, but there is certainly no mistaking the smell of burning brakes! It smells like a semi-truck just lost a clutch!

I am still surprised to hear that both cars were relatively consistent for several laps (GT500 times explained by the brakes) and heat soak appears to have been a non-issue. That is pretty impressive for both manufacturers given that it is June (probably May when this was done)!