New corrosion protection option for Fluidyne, other aluminum radiators

[03 DSG Snake]

Sidebar: Are heat exchangers also possibly affected?

 

[earico]

No, because it is an anode, it needs a conductive path to operate, in this case a ground path.

Please explain a little further.

So our radiators are isolated from chassis ground by the rubber grommets. If we grounded the radiators with a strap and gave the electricity in the coolant an outlet to ground will we still need the anode?

 

[earico]

West Marine has them too for cheap.
SEA SHIELD Pencil Zincs Anodes at West Marine

CANADA METALS Complete & Spare Pencil Engine Anodes at West Marine

I think I'll go to my local store and see what's up. I need to make a trip anyway for some things for my boat.

Edit:
Just called my local store and they have the WM model # 332155 in stock at the store for $7.99. It's 1/4" NPT and 1 3/4" long. You can see it in my 2nd link above. I'm going to go get one now. I will post a pic of it later today.

Here it is. I picked up one of each of these because I wasn't sure which would fit my Mishimoto:

 

[TwinTurbo4vGT]

Been using this stuff for a few years and no problems at all :beer:

 

[timbo3282]

Please explain a little further.

So our radiators are isolated from chassis ground by the rubber grommets. If we grounded the radiators with a strap and gave the electricity in the coolant an outlet to ground will we still need the anode?

Corrosion of any kind is caused by the flow of electrons from a metal with a positive charge (an anode) to ground (the cathode). Because of the poor grounding in the Terminators there are free electrons leaking into the system which pass through the coolant, react with the aluminum and take aluminum ions from the radiator into the coolant. As that happens, that metal is lost forever from the radiator, which makes it weaker and weaker, eventually causing it to leak.

While the radiators are not grounded well, ions can pass from the radiator THROUGH the coolant, to he engine block which is grounded. There is no way to completely isolate the radiator from this galvanic corrosion. Because of that, we have to find the best methods to protect the metal in the radiator.

When the anode drain plug is installed in an all metal radiator, it is grounded to the entire radiator. This allows the zinc, which has a higher potential (affinity) for the electron flow than the aluminum, iron or most other metals to sacrifice itself in the place of the other metals. The only common metal with a higher potential than zinc is Magnesium. But since there isn't any pure magnesium parts in the cooling system that isn't relevant. As a result the zinc anodes sacrifice themselves, preventing the aluminum, steel, iron, etc. it is protecting from corroding. Eventually (I plan on changing them at every coolant change) the anode drain plugs will have to be replaced. If the zinc in the anode is allowed to corrode completely, and it is not replaced the radiator will begin to corrode so you have to keep an eye on them.

This is no different than all the zinc parts on an outboard marine engine, or the stern drive portion of a Inboard/Outboard marine engine.

As previously stated the anode drain plug won't work in a stock radiator because the tank it screws into is plastic preventing it from being grounded. IF you were able to attach a ground wire to the anode drain plug head (with a screw or by soldering it on) there would be a benefit.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Awesome post Tim!

Thanks for posting this up and doing such a great job explaining what exactly is going on in our almost battery of a cooling system.

Our maybe a comparison to a chrome plating tank would be even closer.

Great find on the anode!:rockon::beer: I need to figure out if it will also fit my LFP.

I have seen radiator caps made up in the old style that had a Zinc anode hanging from the center, I have that style caps on my tanks.

 

[earico]

Corrosion of any kind is caused by the flow of electrons from a metal with a positive charge (an anode) to ground (the cathode). Because of the poor grounding in the Terminators there are free electrons leaking into the system which pass through the coolant, react with the aluminum and take aluminum ions from the radiator into the coolant. As that happens, that metal is lost forever from the radiator, which makes it weaker and weaker, eventually causing it to leak.

While the radiators are not grounded well, ions can pass from the radiator THROUGH the coolant, to he engine block which is grounded. There is no way to completely isolate the radiator from this galvanic corrosion. Because of that, we have to find the best methods to protect the metal in the radiator.

When the anode drain plug is installed in an all metal radiator, it is grounded to the entire radiator. This allows the zinc, which has a higher potential (affinity) for the electron flow than the aluminum, iron or most other metals to sacrifice itself in the place of the other metals. The only common metal with a higher potential than zinc is Magnesium. But since there isn't any pure magnesium parts in the cooling system that isn't relevant. As a result the zinc anodes sacrifice themselves, preventing the aluminum, steel, iron, etc. it is protecting from corroding. Eventually (I plan on changing them at every coolant change) the anode drain plugs will have to be replaced. If the zinc in the anode is allowed to corrode completely, and it is not replaced the radiator will begin to corrode so you have to keep an eye on them.

This is no different than all the zinc parts on an outboard marine engine, or the stern drive portion of a Inboard/Outboard marine engine.

As previously stated the anode drain plug won't work in a stock radiator because the tank it screws into is plastic preventing it from being grounded. IF you were able to attach a ground wire to the anode drain plug head (with a screw or by soldering it on) there would be a benefit.

Thanks for that excellent explanation. I see this in action every year on my boat when I check my anodes. I just wasn't sure of the exact science behind it.

Would there be any additional benefit from installing a ground strap on the radiator to give it a hard ground? I'm thinking not. If the anode wasn't grounded to the radiator and isolated somehow and you grounded the anode....like in a stock radiator...would that be even better?

If one of these anodes was used on a stock radiator and the cap of it was grounded I think that would attract the electrons directly to the anode better than it would in an all aluminum radiator because the all aluminum radiator is not isolated from the anode.

 

[Tractionless1]

As previously stated the anode drain plug won't work in a stock radiator because the tank it screws into is plastic preventing it from being grounded. IF you were able to attach a ground wire to the anode drain plug head (with a screw or by soldering it on) there would be a benefit.

And ground it to where for example?


Anyone know the OEM drainplug dimensions and pitch?

 

[spaniard]

subscribing

 

[timbo3282]

And ground it to where for example?


Anyone know the OEM drainplug dimensions and pitch?

You could put ring terminals on either end of a piece of wire, and connect it to one of the threaded studs on the radiator on one end and the main engine ground or anyplace handy on the other.

The thread is 1/4" NPT on the stock radiator.

 

[99cobrajn]

cool stuff Im going to get one asap for my fluidyne, and that purple ice!

Im also going to put one on my intercooler tank in my trunk! help the tank and the heat exchanger!

Thanks!!!!

 

[earico]

For all you guys with a Mishimoto the 1/4" NPT anode won't work.

Here is a pic of the Mishimoto drain plug:

Web page for Mishimoto plug: New Magnetic Drain Plugs

Anyway it's just a standard bolt with a non tapered thread and an oring. It's all aluminum and has a magnetic rod stuck in the end. I tried to remove the magnet but magnets are brittle and that didn't work out because it is in there really tight. I believe it's just pressed in. So I am going to buy an aluminum bolt and tap the end for one of the anode rod refills. The bolt you need is 12mm x 1.50 pitch. It's not the standard 1.75 pitch for a 12mm bolt.

Edit:
Searched for hours and finally found this here http://store.mettec.com/product/517/260 :

Going to tap the end for the pencil anode myself.

 

[earico]

More info on why you don't use distilled water in aluminum radiators.

Cut and pasted from this site: No-Rosion Products Home Page

Q. What type of water is best to use as coolant?

A. Many people have heard that distilled water is best to use in a cooling system. This is wrong, unless a mix of 50/50 antifreeze is used. While it certainly is true that distilled water’s purity prevents electrolysis and scale/deposit formation, it unfortunately comes with a potentially very damaging side effect. During the distillation process, water is vaporized into it’s gaseous phase, so all impurities are left behind. These impurities include a number of minerals, including calcium and magnesium – the two components of “hardness.” The water is then condensed back into it’s liquid phase, so the resulting liquid is pure water – in fact, some of the purest water on earth. The problem is that when water is distilled, or “stripped” of impurities, the resulting solution is composed of chemically imbalanced “ions.” This leaves distilled water “electrochemically hungry,” so it will actually strip electrons from the metals in a cooling system as it attempts to chemically re-balance itself. As it chemically removes electrons from the cooling system metals, it does damage that will eventually lead to leaks and system failure. Using distilled water in combination with 50% antifreeze is no problem, because the distilled water will seek and find electrochemical balance from the various chemical ingredients in the antifreeze mixture. But using distilled water as straight water coolant, either with or without No-Rosion, is strongly discouraged.

The best type of water to use as coolant is softened water – especially if you run straight water coolant, without antifreeze. During the water softening process, the same impurities and minerals are removed from water as the distillation process – but with one very important distinction. Rather than STRIPPING the impurities from water, softening EXCHANGES the impurities with a sodium ion. The resulting solution is electrochemically stable and ionically balanced, making softened water very stable, pure, and non-threatening to cooling system metals. It should be added, there seems to be a perceptual issue with regard to usage of softened water. Many mistakenly believe that because SALT is added to water softeners, softened water must contain salt, a substance known to be very corrosive. Nothing could be further from the truth. The salt that’s added to a water softener is NaCl, or sodium chloride. During the softening process, only the sodium ion is exchanged into the water, whereas chloride ions are removed when the softener is regenerated. Therefore, softened water does NOT contain corrosive salt.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Another excellent post! Thank you Aric, don't you just love the way science can solve problems?

If we only give it a chance.

 

[earico]

Got my anode plug done.

Before:

After:

 

[timbo3282]

Got my anode plug done.

Before:

After:

To make that work a lot better (probably at all), strip the anodization (I think) or paint off of the threads of the bolt you are using. It will interfere with the flow of electrons from the frame of the radiator through the bolt through the zinc into the coolant. If you don't want to do that get a brass bolt and mill out an opening for the zinc in it.

Otherwise that looks great man. Nice job! :beer:

 

[VirtualSVT]

So what happens to the anode bits as they are corroded?

 

[timbo3282]

So what happens to the anode bits as they are corroded?

So it is corroding at the atomic level - zinc ions dissolve in the water so if you chemically tested the water it would be .0001% higher in zinc than before. Being atomic in size, obviously it doesn't cause any trouble plugging anything up and it is at such a low level it doesn't impact the performance of the coolant in any appreciable way either.

Great question though - I am sure lots of folks were wondering that same thing. :beer:

 

[cobracide]

Distilled or softened water 50/50 with antifreeze is fine. You just have to check for electrolysis. Not sure if this is needed?

 

[timbo3282]

Distilled or softened water 50/50 with antifreeze is fine. You just have to check for electrolysis.

That just isn't true man - sorry to say it.

You can certainly run that mixture, and you'll get away with it for a while, but you are absolutely 100% without a doubt going to suffer damage to and the failure of the metal parts in your cooling system, especially the aluminum in the radiator a LOT faster than you would have if you'd filled your radiator with the optimal mixture - 50/50 filtered drinking water with the Ford Premium Gold coolant with the Royal Purple Purple Ice added FOLLOWING the instructions on the bottle. It's just an absolute fact backed up by chemistry.

You can get away with anything for a while, but 50/50 distilled water is a certain recipe for electrolytic damage. You are helping create a battery out of your cooling system with the distilled water.

And you can't "check" for electrolysis - you can't see it happening to the radiator - there is no way to gauge the thickness of the metal throughout the INSIDE of the coolant passages of the radiator. Even if you could look inside them (and you can't) some areas of the radiator would look fine while others will have been eaten to the point that you will have a failure (electrolysis doesn't happen evenly throughout the part - it attacks parts that provide the best path for electron flow) and the failure will happen without warning.

Taking the time to fill the cooling system correctly, and properly protecting it against electrolytic damage isn't tough - and it pays for itself with the fact that you'll definitely have longer life of the radiator, and prevent damage to the rest of the metal components of the cooling system.

Chemistry doesn't lie - and you can't cheat it just because you think it'll be fine.

The distilled water myth (that it was the best thing to fill up the radiator with) was the generally accepted wisdom for a long time - but we know better now. Like we know that Camel cigarettes aren't healthier than any other brand even if 4 of 5 doctors recommended it.

Good luck. :beer: