Clearly, you have not studied the US Constitution or the case law that actually defines the Amendments to the Constitution
They are protections afforded by the court against certain state/govt actions and are a limitation.
Refusing search?
- Thread starter wieduwilt
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Clearly, you have not studied the US Constitution or the case law that actually defines the Amendments to the Constitution
They are protections afforded by the court against certain state/govt actions and are a limitation.
First off, the right to not talk to the police is available at any time, all I have to do is provide my ID, proof of insurance, and registration, but other than that you don't have to interact in any way with the cop except to sign off on agreeing you'll appear in court. Second off, if a cop has to ask to search your car, think about it, he's asking, hence he does not have probable cause so why would you let him search my car. This typically makes police officers mad (personal experience) and they will try anything, even lie to you, to try and get you to give up your rights. Learn how to protect yourself. I had a cop tell me and my friends that by not letting him search my friends car we were only going to go to jail and that he was going to get us in more trouble, well we ended up leaving no problem because he did not have probable cause. It is not illegal for police to lie to you and typically they will to get you to give up rights. These rights and laws only protect you from police who play by the rules and there's plenty out there who don't. I don't mean to offend any officers, it's just there are two kinds: there's the cop who is a person and there's the cop who is a badge. And to those who mentioned calling police dogs, if it is a regular traffic stop, they have to have the dogs there in a reasonable amount of time, they can't just make you sit there for thirty minutes. If there is still any doubt in your mind, and especially if your dealing with a "badge" and not a person, a video camera is your friend.
I know I'm going to probably catch flak for this post, but everything I've said I have either personally experienced or had good friends found not guilty in court due to cops not going about there searches and such legally by breaking some of the rules I mentioned previously.
I know I'm going to probably catch flak for this post, but everything I've said I have either personally experienced or had good friends found not guilty in court due to cops not going about there searches and such legally by breaking some of the rules I mentioned previously.
If you are speaking based on personal experience then why would you catch flak?
My only complaint about your post is as follows...tl;dr :lol1: But hidden in that giant paragraph is some reasonable advice from the opposite end of the law enforcement prospective.
Not sure what the big stink is over vehicle searches. If I had a good feeling I would find something, and consent was off the table, a dog was only 5 minutes away.
Rarely would I ask if I didn't have a backup plan since anything else would be stupid.
And just for the record, I would not agree to a consensual search of my own vehicle, so I realize if I am going to ask - I better have a good reason, and better find something.
Rarely would I ask if I didn't have a backup plan since anything else would be stupid.
And just for the record, I would not agree to a consensual search of my own vehicle, so I realize if I am going to ask - I better have a good reason, and better find something.
You are wrong on a few points though. At least here in NJ. I don't know where you're from. But there are states (NJ one of them) where the automobile exception no longer applies. This means that if I stop a car, and a mushroom cloud of weed smoke comes billowing out when I walk up to it, this no longer gives me the right to seach the vehicle per se. The weed smoke is only probable cause to ask for consent to search.
Even at that point, you can still say no. However, I now have the right to impound your car for who knows how long, while someone applies for a telephonic warrant from a judge. And guess what? Judges don't like to be woken up at 1AM. So you know what that means...your car is sitting in impound until the next day. Then you're on the hook for impound/towing fees. Even if there's nothing in that car.
And as far as a dog, if I call for a dog and they say they're 45 minutes out. Well, I hope you got some time to kill, because you'll certainly be waiting. It's all about what's reasonable. If the K-9 cop later tells a judge in court that he was 45 minutes away and responded as soon as he got called, then it will be found reasonable that it took 45 minutes.
For the people that have had a cop ask to search and you said no, and then he left without doing anything else. That's just a cop fishing and hoping to get lucky. I know if I'm searching a car, I have a damn good reason.
would like to see a reference where you can impound a car after a routine traffic stop to wait for a dog esp. overnight. from what I have read NJ has the strictest traffic search and seizure laws in the U.S. and this would appear to go counter to what I have read.
That's the thing I saw a lot of younger officers searching cars they had no reason in searching hoping for a drug bust.
Im no longer in law enforcement and I refuse all searches, get a dog is all I can say.
Actually, I apologize for not reading the OP's posts a little closer. I skimmed through it, so that's my fault. My example was not at all geared towards a traffic stop where no probable cause exists to search. However, you also need to realize that usually, it's the "routine" stop that turns into bigger things.
In my example, the smell and smoke of weed is only my PC to ASK FOR CONSENT. A few years ago, that alone was enough to allow me to start tossing the car. Now even if I have 4 stoners in the car and the smoke cloud billowing out, I have to ask. If the driver says OK, then we search. If the driver says no way, then I can impound the car and hold it until a search warrant is obtained.
So you're correct, NJ laws are very tough! In NJ at least, if a cop just starts searching cars, or doing consent searches without PC, or "articulable suspicion", he probably won't have a very long career.
BTW, anything in plain view can be seized without a warrant. Also as a sidenote, in NJ, an officer can search a vehicle for registration and insurance documents if the driver cannot provide them.
Hope that clears it up a little...
Jim
Same.
Cops arent shy...if they have a reason(reasonable cause according to them) to search, they will order you out of the car and search. If they are asking, it's because they have no probable cause and need your consent. You have the right to say no, however, they then have the ability to hold you there and bring out the dogs. The courts have stated that running a dog around your car doesnt constitute enough of an invasive search to need your consent. Basically, if you have drugs or a freshly used firearm, they are gonna find it. Last I heard out of the courts, they have a limit of about 45 minutes or so to hold you there and get a dog out before it pushes their limits on holding you there without a charge.
bingo. just did a brief on virginia v. moore.
if they have suspicion they dont need a warrant, but they do need to arrest you in order for the evidence (if they find any) to be able to be used against you, even if the offence is minor (could be a traffic offence like in Va. vs. moore).
read the brief on that case its really interesting
I would say that NJ has the most bass-ackward laws in the country if this is the case.
You're telling me that smelling / seeing smoke from marijuana is not PC to search a vehicle, but it is PC to tow, impound, then obtain a warrant for said search? On top of all that, the owner of the vehicle is to pay the bill? Does this still apply if nothing is found during the search of the vehicle?
Why be an ahole if your more than positive that you have nothing in your car?
This happened to me once during a traffic stop and the guy's car reeked of pot. He had nothing more than a couple of old roaches in his ashtray.
This happened to me once during a traffic stop and the guy's car reeked of pot. He had nothing more than a couple of old roaches in his ashtray.
Bear in mind, youre in a state that treats simple small possession as nothing more than a minor traffic violation that gets you a ticket. There are still plenty of places that a single roach can get you locked up, fined and placed on a minimum of a year or probation. And, please dont infer anything about this statement as approval or disapproval of any particular state's drug laws, however, it can be understood as to why a person would be terrified of having any LEO find anything, not matter how small, in their car. I had a friend a few years back who was found with a single un-prescribed lortab in his car and took a trip to jail, fines totalling more than 1000 dollars and one year supervised probation with drug testing. Again, I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with anyone about laws one way or the other or how anyone should conduct themselves. Im just saying, there is a reason folks get so nervous about searches.
How exactly is refusing a search being an asshole?
If you want to go fishing, you can fish in someone else's car. If you have PC, you're going to search anyway.
How about just following the law? Don't drink or do drugs. Pretty easy.
Your vehicle smells like marijuana, you start refusing a search and it makes me nervous. Who knows, you might be a dealer with a big load that is willing to do anything to keep that load and stay out of jail. But no this guy knew he had nothing more than those roaches, which isn't even worth my time here in LA county. So it went from him just letting me do a quick search, finding nothing and letting him go on his way with only a warning, to this situation which could of been avoided if he wasn't acting like an ahole. So now it's my turn to be ahole.. Instead of a warning, I cited him for running a red light and window tint.
The message I quoted said nothing about marijuana. It said a person is being an asshole if they refuse a search.
You still didn't answer my question. How is a person being an asshole by not playing into your fishing expedition and refusing a search?
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