Avoid JJ @ Woodbine Motorsports

[CobRoush-00]

This is like watching Ground Hog Day.

I will give you a link to a thread that is not unlike what has happened here to the OP. Pulling coil packs and plugs tips/short cuts - Lightning Forum | LightningRodder.com

You can read the whole thing, but if you start out at about post #68 it will save you some reading...lol. I am sure a few might say I am bashing (the vendor) by posting this link up. I am only pointing you guys to a thread and you can make your own conclusion.

To the OP, good luck on getting your tuning issues resolved.

I read all the 18 pages and that reinforced my previous thoughts. JJ thinks he is a perfectionist but only in his own mind. He just can face the truth that he actually made mistakes in both situations. Both threads are actually similar. He blames everyone and everything but himself. This will affect his business in a long run. JJ if you are reading this, it's OK to be wrong and admit it. Just learn from the mistake and make sure it never happens again. That's how people trust you and respect you. Good luck, man!

 

[65fastback2+2]

Also JJ what tuner called you to tell you not to deal with the OP?

he's full of crap. he tries and say the same thing about my business "well, theres a reason why brand X and Brand Y have told me they dont wanna deal with you" (even though said brands deal with me just fine)

its how he deflects for his cover ups

 

[mhyjek]

I read all the 18 pages and that reinforced my previous thoughts. JJ thinks he is a perfectionist but only in his own mind. He just can face the truth that he actually made mistakes in both situations. Both threads are actually similar. He blames everyone and everything but himself. This will affect his business in a long run. JJ if you are reading this, it's OK to be wrong and admit it. Just learn from the mistake and make sure it never happens again. That's how people trust you and respect you. Good luck, man!

Read both threads and JJ's is like his pinks outing "I got left on; I was playing catch up" Seems you have to have a video camera present before the truth comes out. I understand running a business and the default on forums is to trust the shop 1st because it's easier to blame a shop and blast them on the internet but the OP has multiple people standing up for his integrity but JJ has recinded his offer that the OP has posted via screen shot as well as his posts here because he told us that different shops have called him and told him that the OP's character is not good. He is a Vet as well as his career is in LE and has not changed his story once. Also I asked for JJ to tell us his sources...

 

[me32]

It seems like both sides are avoiding big questions here.

JJ
1. Did his car run properly when it arrived to you?
2. Did it in fact stall out when he left? Did he call you that night with concerns about it running properly?
3. Why do you keep saying it is currently running fine on your tune, when he continually states he is using stock Vortech tune that it had when it arrived to your shop?

Keith
1. Where is the proof of breaking down and tow? At least show your call log of calling a tow company.
2. If it failed to even start, what changed to make it drivable to Mustang week?

It seems JJ has a history of not owning up to his workmanship and blaming everything else. Credability of a shop is everything and it is seriously in question here.

My suggestion to put the issue to rest.
Keith go to an independent 3rd party shop for tune. Perform a baseline dyno on current stock Vortech tune. Perform a dyno run on JJ tune. Finally perform a dyno run on new 3rd party tune.

Keith and JJ must agree here to finally put this to rest.
1) If in fact the JJ tune is defective and does not make power as Keith claims, then JJ must refund full cost of services and pay for half of 3rd party retune.
2) If JJ tune makes more power than stock Vortech, then JJ keeps his full cost of services and Keith issues an apology and pays for 3rd party services.
:beer:

send judge judy to smack down

 

[Silverflames01]

Funny because that's exactly what I said to him but he refused to let me look at the car. His words were "I don't want you touching my car again" so I ask you what was I supposed to do? The only time he siad he would bring the car back for me to look at was in this thread.

Everyone please re read the beginning of this thread as many of your questions and concerns have already been answered especially in the tedt messages the op posted. I offered to look at the car several times.

Sorry to have come back when I said I wouldn't I just wanted to clarify.

JJ

This should read Fawk you ghuys!!! I'm always right and I'm taking my football and going home to never come back...Oh wait I didnt see my aoss was in a sling again, SOOO I'm back with moar excuses :loser: ...roflmao

I read all the 18 pages and that reinforced my previous thoughts. JJ thinks he is a perfectionist but only in his own mind. He just can face the truth that he actually made mistakes in both situations. Both threads are actually similar. He blames everyone and everything but himself. This will affect his business in a long run. JJ if you are reading this, it's OK to be wrong and admit it. Just learn from the mistake and make sure it never happens again. That's how people trust you and respect you. Good luck, man!

oke::bash:op:

OH and totally unrelated 65Fastback 2+2 can suck me beautiful :burn: (at least until I need moar parts) ...lol

 

[Cam02ss]

I've known Keith for many years both personally and in the LSX community. Furthermore, I have been up to date with this build since the car first went out to Vortech in CA. Everything he has explained in this thread is how it happened to a T.

 

[boss281]

I don't know where to start. I saw the posts on NVMC, checked over here, and found my very old handle and password still worked.

I've been a customer of JJ's since 2005, and knew OF him prior to that when I had fox bodies. Like the OP, I'm a wrencher too, and in fact, I'm now a very LAZY wrencher at 55yo. I've owned 60 era MOPARS, Chevys, Fords and even some jap crap. I get how they work, and I know my limits. Electronics especially.

I've spent thousands with JJ, and have experienced a few customers that weren't satisfied with work. One thing that always stood out to me is that JJ ALWAYS says bring the car back and let's go over it top to bottom. Some customers don't like that. Don't know why, but I appreciate other obligations and commitments and you have trouble connecting some times.

I've had trouble with my tunes, and my car is just a really fast NA 281. When I could, I brought it back, and JJ spent time on my car getting it right at NO CHARGE while $$ in other work sat in the garage. If I was willing to bring it in and wait or drop it off, he was willing to put in the time to get it right.

Shit happens, and it's happened to MY car. My baby. But JJ always came around and got it right. Right now, the ****ing car is flawless and a bat out of hell.

My two cents. We all get our gander up, but calling someone out as thief and liar just doesn't make it with me. As an LE, you have my respect given my former service with the Navy, but you also have the means to follow if you truly believe what you say is right. Venting feels good, but it doesn't solve the problem. We're always looking for quick fixes but sometimes the righteous path takes a little work.

Sad this ended this way...

 

[nikk0]

So, Did you guys ever come to a mutual agreement?

 

[mhyjek]

I don't know where to start. I saw the posts on NVMC, checked over here, and found my very old handle and password still worked.

I've been a customer of JJ's since 2005, and knew OF him prior to that when I had fox bodies. Like the OP, I'm a wrencher too, and in fact, I'm now a very LAZY wrencher at 55yo. I've owned 60 era MOPARS, Chevys, Fords and even some jap crap. I get how they work, and I know my limits. Electronics especially.

I've spent thousands with JJ, and have experienced a few customers that weren't satisfied with work. One thing that always stood out to me is that JJ ALWAYS says bring the car back and let's go over it top to bottom. Some customers don't like that. Don't know why, but I appreciate other obligations and commitments and you have trouble connecting some times.

I've had trouble with my tunes, and my car is just a really fast NA 281. When I could, I brought it back, and JJ spent time on my car getting it right at NO CHARGE while $$ in other work sat in the garage. If I was willing to bring it in and wait or drop it off, he was willing to put in the time to get it right.

Shit happens, and it's happened to MY car. My baby. But JJ always came around and got it right. Right now, the ****ing car is flawless and a bat out of hell.

My two cents. We all get our gander up, but calling someone out as thief and liar just doesn't make it with me. As an LE, you have my respect given my former service with the Navy, but you also have the means to follow if you truly believe what you say is right. Venting feels good, but it doesn't solve the problem. We're always looking for quick fixes but sometimes the righteous path takes a little work.

Sad this ended this way...

Quick fix the OP didn't ask for, rather he asked for tune that would let him drive his car and race at mustang week... After he had issues JJ sent him the original tune to catch him to show himself that it was not his tune, and when the OP loaded the Vortech base tune. And the car ran like it should, JJ misinterpeted that his tune was ok and has never addressed this instead he has used this to defend his tune. JJ ignores this part of the story and took his offer to fix it off the table. I'm happy your car got tuned right the second time but your story does nothing to fix the OP's situation. As far as venting goes the OP has proof that JJ deceived him and kept half the money so I don't know if this legally meets the requirements for being a liar and a thief... But doesn't work for me.

 

[SCalla1384]

This is all I have to add to the thread

[youtube_browser]VozITGF-DR4&sns=em[/youtube_browser]

 

[boss281]

Quick fix the OP didn't ask for, rather he asked for tune that would let him drive his car and race at mustang week... After he had issues JJ sent him the original tune to catch him to show himself that it was not his tune, and when the OP loaded the Vortech base tune. And the car ran like it should, JJ misinterpeted that his tune was ok and has never addressed this instead he has used this to defend his tune. JJ ignores this part of the story and took his offer to fix it off the table. I'm happy your car got tuned right the second time but your story does nothing to fix the OP's situation. As far as venting goes the OP has proof that JJ deceived him and kept half the money so I don't know if this legally meets the requirements for being a liar and a thief... But doesn't work for me.

Not my point, but I understand you have yours. The critical, missing part here, whatever the dialogue, is that JJ never got a chance to look at the car and attempt to diagnose based on the symptoms. All the problems, as I read through all these pages, were communicated over the phone and text messages, but the follow through never occurred. This debate will almost certainly continue for a while, but my car mentioned above, my 2011 I didn't mention, and the missus's 2007 run just fine. Here's a happy customer 3x over. Here's two running pretty damn fast times:

 

[hopony]

Just remember no business has ever won an argument with a customer. 7 pages of crap could of been avoided if a refund was issued.

 

[scotmach]

This is all I have to add to the thread

[youtube_browser]VozITGF-DR4&sns=em[/youtube_browser]

:dw:Seriously?
JJ got it right on his car, doesn't mean he got it right on the OP car. Plus one thing has nothing to do with the other.

 

[CobRoush-00]

This is all I have to add to the thread

[youtube_browser]VozITGF-DR4&sns=em[/youtube_browser]

Not my point, but I understand you have yours. The critical, missing part here, whatever the dialogue, is that JJ never got a chance to look at the car and attempt to diagnose based on the symptoms. All the problems, as I read through all these pages, were communicated over the phone and text messages, but the follow through never occurred. This debate will almost certainly continue for a while, but my car mentioned above, my 2011 I didn't mention, and the missus's 2007 run just fine. Here's a happy customer 3x over. Here's two running pretty damn fast times:

I think you guys are missing the point. You keep beating on the dead horse. No one questions JJ's ability to make a car go fast or to tune a car properly. He has done it over and over according to your posts. However, we question his ability to accept HE IS HUMAN and HE CAN MAKE MISTAKES sometimes. Let's take this analogy. During the 2007-2008 NFL season the Patriots won 18 games and looked to be the best best football team ever. But they lost the final game to the Giants. Now what do you think made more news? Their 18 games winning streak or the victory by the Giants? Can they go into history denying the lost like it never happened? No. As a great footbal team, they regrouped and came back stronger every year. That's why you may not like them but you have to respect them as one of the best team in the league.
All your videos only support the fan club that JJ can't do no wrong and that's what doesn't sit well with some of us. He screwed up on these two occasions and didn't know how to handle it. Some people just don't know how to handle adversity and apparently JJ is one of them. Don't show me what he's done right, show me how he handles himself when things go wrong. The man has a problem admitting he is wrong when anyone who is NEUTRAL reading these posts can see that.

 

[boss281]

I think you guys are missing the point. You keep beating on the dead horse. No one questions JJ's ability to make a car go fast or to tune a car properly. He has done it over and over according to your posts. However, we question his ability to accept HE IS HUMAN and HE CAN MAKE MISTAKES sometimes. Let's take this analogy. During the 2007-2008 NFL season the Patriots won 18 games and looked to be the best best football team ever. But they lost the final game to the Giants. Now what do you think made more news? Their 18 games winning streak or the victory by the Giants? Can they go into history denying the lost like it never happened? No. As a great footbal team, they regrouped and came back stronger every year. That's why you may not like them but you have to respect them as one of the best team in the league.
All your videos only support the fan club that JJ can't do no wrong and that's what doesn't sit well with some of us. He screwed up on these two occasions and didn't know how to handle it. Some people just don't know how to handle adversity and apparently JJ is one of them. Don't show me what he's done right, show me how he handles himself when things go wrong. The man has a problem admitting he is wrong when anyone who is NEUTRAL reading these posts can see that.

"Fan club"? Really???? Look up sophistry, look in the mirror and come back. There I think I did ok there, internet bashing and all.

Look at the red 2005. See it? Runs like gang busters. Didn't happen on the first tune, second or third. We had to ****ing work at it to get it right. Prototype intake manifold has us all wonky. I complained, took it back, JJ worked on it (no FURTHER charges), until one day I drove it off the trailer and ran the 3rd fastest (documented at least) NA stock block (except cams) into the 11s. Your damn tooting he got it RIGHT, but it took a bit of playing around. The blue 2011--nothing special except intake through exhaust and is brutally fast--came out right the first time. The white 2007 with stock everything except CAI, headers and some suspension components went from a 13.0 to 12.4 in her hands--took a couple of tweaks to get it right.

JJ's admitted he could have handled things better, admitted to being on a road trip that temporarily delayed working closely with the customer, and the customer kind of went off (understandably) that his car wasn't running properly and wasn't liking what he heard (again, understandably). Putting all the dialogue aside, one approach many of us would consider is getting the car back to the shop.

I've read the posts like you have, and have reached a different conclusion that is yes, based on my own experiences and those I've seen with MANY other customers since 2005. I'm not a JJ nuthugger, but he is a friend, and like many friends can screw up now and then. When I first saw these notes on NVMC I was stunned, but read through everything twice, and started picking up what facts I could in between accusations. I've read the material and feel the dialogue threw this one in the toilet, not JJ's capabilities, reputation, track record and customer service philosophy. It's fun to join the bash band wagon but all too often facts get lost in the ether.

I would bet that a 10 minute face to face, soon after JJ's return from competitive racing, would have solved this.

For you fence sitters, I'm taking $1500 worth of parts into his shop on a Sunday (haven't seen the man in 8 months and he extends a weekend courtesy so I'm not inconvenienced being late to work Monday), and have full confidence my car will work fine, be clean, and in proper working order. If it isn't, I'll document the issues and bring it back until it's fixed. That's how he rolls.

Over and out...

 

[Heuristic]

"Fan club"? Really???? Look up sophistry, look in the mirror and come back. There I think I did ok there, internet bashing and all.

Look at the red 2005. See it? Runs like gang busters. Didn't happen on the first tune, second or third. We had to ****ing work at it to get it right. Prototype intake manifold has us all wonky. I complained, took it back, JJ worked on it (no FURTHER charges), until one day I drove it off the trailer and ran the 3rd fastest (documented at least) NA stock block (except cams) into the 11s. Your damn tooting he got it RIGHT, but it took a bit of playing around. The blue 2011--nothing special except intake through exhaust and is brutally fast--came out right the first time. The white 2007 with stock everything except CAI, headers and some suspension components went from a 13.0 to 12.4 in her hands--took a couple of tweaks to get it right.

JJ's admitted he could have handled things better, admitted to being on a road trip that temporarily delayed working closely with the customer, and the customer kind of went off (understandably) that his car wasn't running properly and wasn't liking what he heard (again, understandably). Putting all the dialogue aside, one approach many of us would consider is getting the car back to the shop.

I've read the posts like you have, and have reached a different conclusion that is yes, based on my own experiences and those I've seen with MANY other customers since 2005. I'm not a JJ nuthugger, but he is a friend, and like many friends can screw up now and then. When I first saw these notes on NVMC I was stunned, but read through everything twice, and started picking up what facts I could in between accusations. I've read the material and feel the dialogue threw this one in the toilet, not JJ's capabilities, reputation, track record and customer service philosophy. It's fun to join the bash band wagon but all too often facts get lost in the ether.

I would bet that a 10 minute face to face, soon after JJ's return from competitive racing, would have solved this.

For you fence sitters, I'm taking $1500 worth of parts into his shop on a Sunday (haven't seen the man in 8 months and he extends a weekend courtesy so I'm not inconvenienced being late to work Monday), and have full confidence my car will work fine, be clean, and in proper working order. If it isn't, I'll document the issues and bring it back until it's fixed. That's how he rolls.

Over and out...

You're really missing the point...

 

[me32]

This is all I have to add to the thread

[youtube_browser]VozITGF-DR4&sns=em[/youtube_browser]

Not my point, but I understand you have yours. The critical, missing part here, whatever the dialogue, is that JJ never got a chance to look at the car and attempt to diagnose based on the symptoms. All the problems, as I read through all these pages, were communicated over the phone and text messages, but the follow through never occurred. This debate will almost certainly continue for a while, but my car mentioned above, my 2011 I didn't mention, and the missus's 2007 run just fine. Here's a happy customer 3x over. Here's two running pretty damn fast times:

both you guys cant seem to read if your life depended on it. OP car ran like crap plain an simple. it comes down to either getting JJ to fix the tune an make it perfect or giving the OP his money back. it that easy. sorry you 2 aren't smart enough to understand that. :bash:

 

[JJ 10.88 Coyote]

both you guys cant seem to read if your life depended on it. OP car ran like crap plain an simple. it comes down to either getting JJ to fix the tune an make it perfect or giving the OP his money back. it that easy. sorry you 2 aren't smart enough to understand that. :bash:

And thats part of the problem I was not allowed to touch the car or look at it for a possible mechanical issue (hose popped off etc...) after the op took the car. He specifically stated he did not want me touching the car ever again and the only mention of him allowing ke to look at it came after he posted this bashfest on several different forums calling me a liar and a thief.

After hearing that the car had an issue and those issues got worse I literally begged the op to let me look at it and he refused.

Boss281 is a customer who has developed into a good friend over the years along with his girlfriend and they are typical of the relationships we build with our customers.

JJ

 

[Ratchet]

But JJ, here's the thing, you lied to/ intentionally tried to deceive the op. Someone that did that to me would never touch my car again either. Just sayin.

 

[me32]

And thats part of the problem I was not allowed to touch the car or look at it for a possible mechanical issue (hose popped off etc...) after the op took the car. He specifically stated he did not want me touching the car ever again and the only mention of him allowing ke to look at it came after he posted this bashfest on several different forums calling me a liar and a thief.

After hearing that the car had an issue and those issues got worse I literally begged the op to let me look at it and he refused.

Boss281 is a customer who has developed into a good friend over the years along with his girlfriend and they are typical of the relationships we build with our customers.

JJ

I would like see this whole thing turn into a positive. I thought you an the op were planning yo setup a day to bring the car back an go over every thing to get the car to run great. Is this still gping to happen? I'm not doughting your tunning skillz as this is the 1st time I have seen a negative post about you. Keep us udated on how the out will be.