A fully optioned 2013/14 GT500 was $69k (convertible).
My 2014 GT500 Convertible was ordered with every available option, with the MSRP totaling $69,545.
A fully optioned 2013/14 GT500 was $69k (convertible).
Ok?My 2014 GT500 Convertible was ordered with every available option, with the MSRP totaling $69,545.
I was supporting your post. Ok?
Ok cowboy.I was supporting your post. Ok?
A fully optioned 2013/14 GT500 was $69k (convertible).
And how many of those did Ford sell? I never said they couldn't sell cars above $70k, I said they won't sell "A LOT" of cars at that elevated price. Now they're in the range of a ZO6 and/or Grand Sport and within striking distance of a lot of foreign sports cars.
Truth be told, I was just spit balling. I don't plan on selling my car, regardless of what the 500 has to offer.
I'll close by restating what I already pointed out.
1) If the 500 is a marked improvement, I do NOT feel like Ford will be able to offer that for less than what the current 350 trims are priced at. So if the new 500 is some sort of 350 on roids, it still won't hurt the value of the 350s because there will be a price/value gap between the two.
2) If Ford's bean counters make the development team take an appetite suppressant, the 500 will continue to be a muscle car and again, that will serve to maintain the differentiation between the 500 and the 350.
3) IF however, Ford decides they want a real shot at competing with the ZL1, now they have to feature a car with more power than the 350R, similar handling as the 350R but less than $70k. THAT would be obviously the death of the 350. IF they do that, yes, the 350R value will plummet and the 350 will get kicked in the crotch as well. But again, easier said than done. I don't know how they get the weight savings off a car that's already going to be piggish with all that's added for a factory FI system and also incorporate all the fancy/expensive features of the 350 series (lighter trans, better wheels, better brakes, active exhaust, trans cooler, diff coolers, etc, etc). Keeping all the 350 goodies and adding a blower is going to be TOUGH to do without the price going well over what the current 350 pricing is and again, that creates a $/value gap which protects our value.
Nobody's wishing for the GT350 to go away. That has been Fords plan from day one. It's a limited run vehicle. And you're mistaken in thinking Ford can't sell a Mustang north of $70K. The '13/'14 GT500 w/ options was north of $70K. Also, manufacturers use specific rubber compounds all the time. Ford worked with Michelin to develop Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires specific to the GT350R. There's nothing ominous or nefarious there.
I like that you contribute to this forum, and you actually post fairly well thought out information.
But I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
As far as how many $70k convertibles Ford sold...EVERY SINGLE ONE THEY PRODUCED. As far as comparing to the Z06 price-wise, yes a LOADED GT500 will be very comparable to a BASE Z06. And as far as comparing it to the Grand Sport, I expect them to be very competitive as far as performance numbers go.
1.) FORD IS NOT GOING TO OFFER THE GT500 FOR LESS THAN THE GT350. Period. End of story. No discussion. IT WON'T HAPPEN.
2.) The cars that are selling the best right now and demanding the most attention are track oriented vehicles. Ford will create the GT500 with that in mind and aim to take out the ZL1, just like the GT PP Stage 2 was created to take on the 1LE.
3.) Ford does NOT need to create the GT500 to be under $70k. The base model will be $65-70k and you'll be able to build one up close to or equal to $80k.
I don't mean any of this in disrespect, so please don't take it that way. At the end of the day, Ford sells their performance division better than GM or Chrysler. Have you ever seen a Ford Performance/SVT product sell for 20% off MSRP? No. GM and Chrysler do. Ford Performance/SVT vehicles hold their value better than GM or Chrysler performance vehicles.
We're saying the same thing. My points were to respond to people who are concerned that the value of the 350 is about to go south when the 500s come out.
You're points are simply proving my overall point, there's little to worry about.
And how many of those did Ford sell? I never said they couldn't sell cars above $70k, I said they won't sell "A LOT" of cars at that elevated price. Now they're in the range of a ZO6 and/or Grand Sport and within striking distance of a lot of foreign sports cars.
Truth be told, I was just spit balling. I don't plan on selling my car, regardless of what the 500 has to offer.
I'll close by restating what I already pointed out.
1) If the 500 is a marked improvement, I do NOT feel like Ford will be able to offer that for less than what the current 350 trims are priced at. So if the new 500 is some sort of 350 on roids, it still won't hurt the value of the 350s because there will be a price/value gap between the two.
2) If Ford's bean counters make the development team take an appetite suppressant, the 500 will continue to be a muscle car and again, that will serve to maintain the differentiation between the 500 and the 350.
3) IF however, Ford decides they want a real shot at competing with the ZL1, now they have to feature a car with more power than the 350R, similar handling as the 350R but less than $70k. THAT would be obviously the death of the 350. IF they do that, yes, the 350R value will plummet and the 350 will get kicked in the crotch as well. But again, easier said than done. I don't know how they get the weight savings off a car that's already going to be piggish with all that's added for a factory FI system and also incorporate all the fancy/expensive features of the 350 series (lighter trans, better wheels, better brakes, active exhaust, trans cooler, diff coolers, etc, etc). Keeping all the 350 goodies and adding a blower is going to be TOUGH to do without the price going well over what the current 350 pricing is and again, that creates a $/value gap which protects our value.
So what, if it's within striking distance of Z06/GS/foreign sports cars, if the performance is there?? Ford claims the GT350R can run door to door with the 991.1 GT3 around a track. The GT3 has a $140K base price, and you'll never find one for that price. Also, $60K - $70K foreign sports cars can come even remotely close to touching GT350R performance? I honestly can't think of any.
1) As already pointed out, the GT500 is not going to be priced below the GT350. Why would Ford price its premiere Mustang below a lesser model?
2) The days of straight line focused cars at Ford (and GM) are over. Dodge is doing it because they literally have nothing to lose by offering straight line cars.
3) Ford has zero reason or incentive to price a balls-out GT500 less than $70K. It's not young whipper-snappers who are going to be buying them. It'll be older, more established people with deeper than average pockets. Not to mention, the base price of the GT350R is ~$60K. The base for a ZL1 is ~$62.5K. The ZL1 can barely (and in some instances doesn't) outperform the GT350R in anything other than a straight line. The ZL1 1LE has a $70K base price. Ford is no doubt looking to outgun the 1LE; probably with a base GT500. So, again, what reason or incentive does Ford have to price the GT500 below $70K? As much tech and performance that's expected of it, it'll probably start above $70K and touch $80K optioned out, and they'll sell every last one of them.
Voice of Reason said:The 350 will drop. Not necessarily due to the comparison between the 350 and the 500, but due to the sheer amount of people trading/selling their GT350s to get in to the GT500. Happens every time there is a new model out.
The GT350s were odd anyways, I bet there were more pre-owned GT350s on the market within 6 months of their first ownership, than any Ford performance vehicle in the last decade. A lot of these have traded hands already, and that number will grow dramatically when the GT500 is announced.
Supply will increase rapidly, while demand will hold constant or decrease; resulting in lower prices.[/QUOTE}
You still are not reading lol
Please reread my last post, below:
I did read it, I just disagree and didn't want to argue the point. I might agree with the R, but not the base 350. There will obviously be a few people who dump their 350 onto the market to spend the extra $20k on a 500, but I don't think it's going to tank their value. The 350 is already selling slightly used for low 50s. It doesn't have much further to fall anyway before it's in the realm of the GT Premium with all the bells/whistles. What's far more likely to be impacted is the new and resale values of the R. If the R and the new 500 are even remotely close and the 500 turns out to be everything everyone is hoping, then yes, people will dump their R's onto the market to spend the few grand for a newer/better vehicle. I just don't think people are going to do that in droves when it's a $20k calculus vs, a much smaller gap.
I promise they will. Same thing happened in 2012 when the 2013's were announced.
Hell, how many people dumped their GT350s within a few months and jumped on the Hellcat bandwagon?
In the realm of a new GT Premium? Ok. That's like me saying that the 2016/17 GT350 should be more expensive because the 2013/14 GT500s were selling for low to mid $50ks when the GT350 came out.
Please 'watch' this thread. Here in 6 months, let's revisit it.
the dealers are going to have to come off their artificial markups stat.
I bet they trade hands at $10-20k over for the first 8-10 months of production.
I was talking about the R. If the 500 comes out and it's within striking distance of the R prices, the R will sit on lots while people buy the 500 and the dealers will have to abandon their markups.
...
My point is, once Ford starts getting into the Grand Sport/ZO6 pricing, it does affect their bean counting. They're boxed in with premium products above and more common mass products below (on the 500) so there's a sweet spot they're trying to hit.
... What's far more likely to be impacted is the new and resale values of the R. If the R and the new 500 are even remotely close and the 500 turns out to be everything everyone is hoping, then yes, people will dump their R's onto the market to spend the few grand for a newer/better vehicle. ...
From all accounts that I've read and watched, the driving dynamics and characteristics of the R are so different from the standard GT350s that they could be two wholly separate cars.