Whipple Mach 1

[dclay]

If you dont' have the cash to forge it........that's cool....but you're still going about it wrong. IMO, your plan will kill the motor and (as USMCMACH says) end up doing a rebuild anyways...and may end up costing you $1-2k more, pending bore/hone/r and r the s.c kit AND re-tune.

I HIGHLY suggest staying way from 10-12 psi. IF you have to stay with the stock block (which I would start saving for forged internals if you do, no matter what route you go) this is my suggestion.

used P1SC kit (you can upgrade to D1 for abotu $1k later)
3.9" pulley (~8-9psi)
PHP spacer
Mid pipe
FGT fuel pump
A-pillar with Fuel and PSI gauge
Catback
Injectors
Diablo MAF.ia OR SCT2600
Spark PLugs
Dyno Tune. - BE EXTREMELY picky about who does it.


I bolded the problem I see with your kit. Going with LTs and Cams would not only assist in in your chances of motor failure, but the cost of those installed ALONE would cover a Forged stroker kit PLUS the install of them.

Oh and I wouldn't do 4.10s with FI unless you don't mind not using 1st gear. If this is primarily a track car, then ok....but if it is primarily street driven, I wouldnt'. 3.73s with hardened 28 mosers if you primarily street drive it.

ALso....gear change alone with would be roughly $600 installed......again, that is roughly half the price of a forged stroker kit.

I would suggest getting a new clutch although the stock one should suffice for a while. and there is NO IF getting 450 RWHP if you go your route....10-12 psi with the mods you are thinking.......500RWHP is more like it.

Ok, thank you very much.. Looks like this may be a slower process than I anticipated. Where do I go about to buy a forged stroker kit? Just use google I guess? I guess I will just void the warranty, haha cuz I'm in need of more power!

I think you have convinced me to get the internals done first.

You know what sucks? I JUST sold some 3.73's on ebay! ughhhh how stupid.. Mach's are 8.8" right



Edit:
Also, will I lose some horsepower once I forge it because the compression will be lower? If I do then I won't install the forged Kit until I get a supercharger as well....

 

[Mach1USMC]

Ok, thank you very much.. Looks like this may be a slower process than I anticipated. Where do I go about to buy a forged stroker kit? Just use google I guess? I guess I will just void the warranty, haha cuz I'm in need of more power!

I think you have convinced me to get the internals done first.

You know what sucks? I JUST sold some 3.73's on ebay! ughhhh how stupid.. Mach's are 8.8" right



Edit:
Also, will I lose some horsepower once I forge it because the compression will be lower? If I do then I won't install the forged Kit until I get a supercharger as well....

If you get a stroker crank and keep the cr between 9:0/9:5 you should be @ about the same hp- maybe a little less. Getting Forged internals done first is a very good idea for a long term project and will end up saving $ in the end.

As fas as where to get the kit my personal opinion would be MMR or DSS. The stroker kits for MMR are around 2k but I've heard really good things about them. Another alternative (which is what I'll do if I keep my Mach) is go to MPS salvage. The quote I got from them for a drivetrain swap w/a terminator was 7k and that included longblock, SC kit, t56, computer, gauge cluster, shifter and labor. If you want the IRS it's a little more. But 7k is a steal for a deal like that.

DSS- http://www.dssracing.com/ -somewhere in the midwest

MMR- is in Cali
MMR Shortblock- http://www.modularmustangracing.com/
Stroker Rotating assy- 2199

http://www.mpsautosalvage.com/ - is in Ga

 

[ponygt65]

Ok, thank you very much.. Looks like this may be a slower process than I anticipated. Where do I go about to buy a forged stroker kit? Just use google I guess? I guess I will just void the warranty, haha cuz I'm in need of more power!

I think you have convinced me to get the internals done first.

You know what sucks? I JUST sold some 3.73's on ebay! ughhhh how stupid.. Mach's are 8.8" right



Edit:
Also, will I lose some horsepower once I forge it because the compression will be lower? If I do then I won't install the forged Kit until I get a supercharger as well....

Your CR will depend on what Pistons you get. I would choose a piston CC that will keep you at 9.5, but that's me. Going with a centrif. charger (Vortech/Procharger) you can get away with higher CR. If you choose to go with a PD blower like a TS, I would go with no higher than 9 CR.

There are always shops on ebay selling mahnle (or the like) rods and pistons or stroker kits. Just research the brand quality and CC of the piston for you the CR you want (after you pick a S/C type) then go from there.

Doing the internals is always better IMO. your definitely going the smart way. Also, you can get a D1SC ATi kit and push out a good 550-600RWHP once your ready.

TWO options on the warranty: Just do a couple of bolt ons and gears. You'll be runnin' mid upper 12s (track and your skill pending) and wait on the 'power'.

OR continue what your doing, call the extended warranty company and cancel it. If you cancel the extended warranty you should get a pro-rated refund check back. ....... depending on the warranty. BUT, that will help pay for the forged internals and build.



You could keep the stock stroke and just go forged internals....here.....i fyou have a 5 spd, you won't need the crank, so maybe you can call them and make a deal with them.....maybe ask for a 17cc piston for a tad higher CR instead of the crank?....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-6-...010QQitemZ200246377577QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

 

[dclay]

Thanks guys.. also, should the 03/04 cobra lower intake fit on my mach 1 without any special fabricating?

 

[Reloaded]

Thanks guys.. also, should the 03/04 cobra lower intake fit on my mach 1 without any special fabricating?

Yes the lower intake will bolt up, but the bosses for the knock sensors will have to be ground smooth for it to fit.

 

[rdsnk46]

I'm not sure if you said you didn't want nitrous or not, but $500.00 bucks will get you moving nicely with an NOS kit! GL!

 

[WeeZee]

Im sorry guys if you want big power like your old Terminator you need forged pistons,forged Rods & a hellion single turbo kit. Power for power a supercharger will always take a back seat to a turbo

 

[ponygt65]

Im sorry guys if you want big power like your old Terminator you need forged pistons,forged Rods & a hellion single turbo kit. Power for power a supercharger will always take a back seat to a turbo

His old cobra hit more than 700rwhp? Hmm.

oh, and I guess the Mach1 putting down 1000rwhp with an F2A has nothing on a Turbo right?:lol:

OR a whipple mach that is putting down 720rwhp.?:lol:

A D1SC would easily put down 600+. AND, no lag. I'm not saying turbo's aren't nice or that S/C's are better, it's your last comment that made me post this.

 

[Mach1USMC]

His old cobra hit more than 700rwhp? Hmm.

oh, and I guess the Mach1 putting down 1000rwhp with an F2A has nothing on a Turbo right?:lol:

OR a whipple mach that is putting down 720rwhp.?:lol:

A D1SC would easily put down 600+. AND, no lag. I'm not saying turbo's aren't nice or that S/C's are better, it's your last comment that made me post this.

For the most part what WeeZee says is true. There are exceptions but most of the big HP track guys are running Turbo's.

 

[ponygt65]

For the most part what WeeZee says is true. There are exceptions but most of the big HP track guys are running Turbo's.

I'm not saying most of the track guys aren't running Turbo's. As I stated, it was his last line that rubbed me the wrong way.

BTW - I'm refering to street cars, not single digit all out race cars, or even 'border' line trailored. My point is both FI types can get you to the same HP level that is comfortable on teh street.

 

[Mach1USMC]

I'm not saying most of the track guys aren't running Turbo's. As I stated, it was his last line that rubbed me the wrong way.

BTW - I'm refering to street cars, not single digit all out race cars, or even 'border' line trailored. My point is both FI types can get you to the same HP level that is comfortable on teh street.

I hear ya on that one.....I guess from the numbers I've seen Turbo's make a lot better torque. Not sure why- I'm no mechanical genius though. Although I'd love to get an F1 on a built block and a sick auto:rockon:

 

[WeeZee]

PonyGT65 my bad bro i was just making a statement. If he wants big power than turbo is the way to go. I havent heard of turbo lag in the last 5 years, they cleared that issue up for the most part. You cant honestly superchargers make better power curve numbers that turbos. I mean a turbo gives you way better torque pound for pound. You can make anything as fast as you want it to be but a supercharger in theory uses power to make power, while a turbo does not. I want a 10# Procharger on my mach, trust me superchargers are bad ass. The sound of a Procharger is wicked. the guy said he wanted power i just gave my opinion, thats all

 

[WeeZee]

i meant to say, you can't honestly tell me a supercharger makes a better power to torque curve than a turbo pound for pound, my bad

 

[ponygt65]

i meant to say, you can't honestly tell me a supercharger makes a better power to torque curve than a turbo pound for pound, my bad

OK...now that I agree with. TQ with a turbo is quite nice.:beer:

 

[Jester]

dclay- get whatever blower you want, run it at low boost until the motor weakens/blows. Maybe by that time you should have the cash to build the motor you like and run the boost level you want. Just a thought...

 

[scotmach]

i meant to say, you can't honestly tell me a supercharger makes a better power to torque curve than a turbo pound for pound, my bad

:sleeping: I have yet to run into a Turbo car that could hang with me.;-)

 

[Mach1USMC]

:sleeping: I have yet to run into a Turbo car that could hang with me.;-)

I know several in my neck of the woods that would give you a run for your money.:thumbsup:

 

[cobrasvt57]

03 Mach1
Whipple 2.3
718 rwhp 735 rwtq @ 25 psi
Tuned by Chris @ EFI Logics

Not being an ass but you can get those same numbers running about 17lbs with twin
turbo...a matter a fact we have a local kid putting down 874rwhp on 23lbs with nothing more the a sullivan intake and twin 57s....not to mention if you line up with a turbo car boost for boost lbs you'll lose.......not in counting for driver error and if that same car is a auto turbo car don't even bother wasting his gas nor yours.....i mean it takes HP to make hp with any supercharger but the turbo is heat transfer energy thats already there.....the charger lost the contest before it ever started

 

[speedofsound]

03 Mach1
Whipple 2.3
718 rwhp 735 rwtq @ 25 psi
Tuned by Chris @ EFI Logics

Not being an ass but you can get those same numbers running about 17lbs with twin
turbo...a matter a fact we have a local kid putting down 874rwhp on 23lbs with nothing more the a sullivan intake and twin 57s....not to mention if you line up with a turbo car boost for boost lbs you'll lose.......not in counting for driver error and if that same car is a auto turbo car don't even bother wasting his gas nor yours.....i mean it takes HP to make hp with any supercharger but the turbo is heat transfer energy thats already there.....the charger lost the contest before it ever started

Well, yes that is true, but it all comes down to what kind of fun/performance he prefers doesn't it ...ass. :burn: :beer: Take me for example. I went from twins to a centri.

 

[97desertCobra]

OP take it from me, build the short block before you go for power. Other wise you run the risk of blowing your engine. I had the money 1.5 years ago to forge my engine, could have went stroker and ported the heads, short runner intake and maybe und up with 340-360 rwhp n/a. Would have been fun and there would be very very very little chance of it blowing up. Instead I went with a D1SC. I figured I would be OK with a very conservative tune and low boost. 400rwhp sounded safe as it was 50rwhp less than the considered breaking point. What happend instead was I blew the head gaskets on the dyno but didnt realize it. 1 year later the issue got worse then all the sudden on the freeway the head gaskets had enough, the car over heated RAPIDLY and my engine ran till it died from over heating. I have not torn it down yet but I fear there may be serious carnage waiting for me.

If I could do it all over again, I would definately have built the long block first. Then slapped on a supercharger when I was ready with enough money just in case the engine let go again, as there are no guarantees, even with a forged rotating assembly. Its an expensive game and if finaces are a little tight, tight enough to make you get rid of the 03 Cobra, then I would really take this slow and conservative. If you absolutely need to more rwhp then maybe get a used P1SC and run the largest pulley you can 5-6# and keep the hp around 380-400rwhp with a tune from a very reputable tuner. DONT SKIMP ON THE TUNE. Even if it costs you another 100 or more it will be worth it.