2011 gt500 1-2 shift problem
- Thread starter svtcobra2k1
- Start date
one can hope but im not going to hold my breath
Exactly.
Don't hold your breath on the TSB. How many people that have complained about it, haven't said a word to a Ford dealer or SVT about it? I know I haven't. I haven't even had time to get my car out of the garage lately, let alone dealing with those people right now. I'll try to call the SVT number tomorrow and see what they say, but they'll most likely just tell me to go see my dealer and let them diagnose it which I won't be doing anytime soon. If this is my situation, I have to believe that there are more like me.
There are threads on many forums about this issue, and so far there is someone that had this resolved on his 2010. He mentioned that Tremec techs were involved as well.
Here is his post from TS
Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:33 AM
Ok...here we go, I got my Shelby back and I am thrilled!!! My Tremec 6060 feels and functions absolutely perfect. I put 100 miles on the car this evening and finally got to lay some rubber with the car now that I have a non-grinding 2nd gear. Before I would have to shift from 1st to 3rd, or to 2nd with a terrible grind. After a little more testing is done all the remaining mods can now be installed on my car!!
I am sorry for this being long, but I want to be as thorough as I am allowed to be. I am taking the time to be detailed in this at 2am so that those of you with issues on your 2010 GT500's have a solution as this most likely, in my opinion as of today, will not become a recall or TSB.
There are several threads here on TS with people complaining about the 1st to 2nd gear grind. As most of you know, I own a Mustang shop and was not happy to have my own car start grinding at 100 miles. The first 100 miles the car was babied, never taken over 3500 RPM, and it was very hard to get into second. I figured it needed to break in and continued to baby the car, hoping the trans would shift better with some miles...not the case...it got worse and started grinding. I called a friend at Tremec and then took the car to Ford. I was told to continue to drive it, which I did. It was embarrassing to drive to 2 shows and have to either let the car grind going into second, or let it bog shifting from 1st to 3rd...sure made it look to bystanders that I didn't know how to drive!!
Car went back to my dealer, and a new transmission arrived, installed, and GRINDED too. It was disassembled, my original was disassembled, and a customer's transmission (with his permission) with the same issue was disassembled...this is what took so long. Lots of phone calls, techs, flights, frustration and parts were used with many "unofficially" getting involved. I am not at liberty to put in writing any names, even to give many thanks to, or to assign blame, even if my opinion, of failed parts. Most parts in outsourced transmissions are manufactured by various suppliers through out the world. Many changes can and will be made in a model year on an outsourced assembly, in this case the transmission.
In this case the failed parts ONLY apply to the 2010 transmission...not 07-09...again...ONLY 2010!!! The TSB's pertaining to the clutch and transmission in the 07-09 GT500's have nothing to do with this. The grind also has nothing to do with the 2010 organic clutch. This is a 2010 GT500 ONLY issue and only on some transmissions. If your 2010 GT500 has not experienced tough or grinding into 2nd gear with in the first 1000 miles, it won't most likely. Only a small group have the issue. Unfortunately, contrary to what was thought before it is not dependent on build date as the defective parts were used through-out the 2010 model year. Parts are sent to Tremec with one part #, then given another part # by Tremec, then given another by Ford. Parts when delivered to each manufacturer are put on shelves and used as needed. The 3 trans's that we used for these observations were a March, 2009 build date, an August, 2009 build date, and a December, 2009 build date (my original one), so it is sporadic all across the board of build dates. I took many pictures, and learned alot about these transmissions, but have been asked not to post pictures, which I planned on, but respect the decision of being told not to. I am not a transmission expert, but could clearly see the defective parts with my own eyes.
Parts replaced on my transmission, my customer's, and the spare...these are Ford part #'s:
1) AR3Z-7102-A Gear Mainshaft 2nd speed
1) 7R3Z-7177-A Washer
2) 7R3Z-7107-A 1st synchro blocker ring
1) 7R3Z-7124-A Synchro assy
1) 4R3Z-7K584-AB Clip
1) 7R3Z-7A082-A Trans control selector
1) AR3Z-7025-A Bearing
1) 7R3Z-7R482-A Output shaft washer
1) 7R3Z-7050-A Retainer spring
3) F6ZZ-7160-A Snap rings
1) 8R3Z-7117-C Bearing spacer
7) XT-5-QM Trans fluid ( for all 3 tranny's on this invoice)
2) PM-1-C Brake fluid ( for CSC bleeding)
Now those of you that are familiar with Ford part #'s are saying" those part #'s are for 04, 07, and 10!!" I know this!! My suggestion, and only my suggestion and opinion, is to wait if you have an 2010 trans issue for a couple weeks to a month before taking your car to have this warrantied as the parts are updated. Also be sure that your dealer ORDERS the parts and does not use any parts they have in stock if they have any of these parts in stock.
I think we really now have our answer key to the 1st to 2nd grind. Another customer with a 2010 that never had a grind brought his car in too for a "removal and inspection". His car has 13K VERY hard miles and 680 RWHP. My shop built the car. His trans looked perfect inside...no wear marks, hot spots, etc. Clutch even looked great still even with over 50 quarter mile passes and road racing. His build date is March 2009. Agin showing that it is not a build date issue.
I really hope this helps and allows others having the issue to get it fixed and learn to enjoy your cars again!!!
Alex
Here is his post from TS
Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:33 AM
Ok...here we go, I got my Shelby back and I am thrilled!!! My Tremec 6060 feels and functions absolutely perfect. I put 100 miles on the car this evening and finally got to lay some rubber with the car now that I have a non-grinding 2nd gear. Before I would have to shift from 1st to 3rd, or to 2nd with a terrible grind. After a little more testing is done all the remaining mods can now be installed on my car!!
I am sorry for this being long, but I want to be as thorough as I am allowed to be. I am taking the time to be detailed in this at 2am so that those of you with issues on your 2010 GT500's have a solution as this most likely, in my opinion as of today, will not become a recall or TSB.
There are several threads here on TS with people complaining about the 1st to 2nd gear grind. As most of you know, I own a Mustang shop and was not happy to have my own car start grinding at 100 miles. The first 100 miles the car was babied, never taken over 3500 RPM, and it was very hard to get into second. I figured it needed to break in and continued to baby the car, hoping the trans would shift better with some miles...not the case...it got worse and started grinding. I called a friend at Tremec and then took the car to Ford. I was told to continue to drive it, which I did. It was embarrassing to drive to 2 shows and have to either let the car grind going into second, or let it bog shifting from 1st to 3rd...sure made it look to bystanders that I didn't know how to drive!!
Car went back to my dealer, and a new transmission arrived, installed, and GRINDED too. It was disassembled, my original was disassembled, and a customer's transmission (with his permission) with the same issue was disassembled...this is what took so long. Lots of phone calls, techs, flights, frustration and parts were used with many "unofficially" getting involved. I am not at liberty to put in writing any names, even to give many thanks to, or to assign blame, even if my opinion, of failed parts. Most parts in outsourced transmissions are manufactured by various suppliers through out the world. Many changes can and will be made in a model year on an outsourced assembly, in this case the transmission.
In this case the failed parts ONLY apply to the 2010 transmission...not 07-09...again...ONLY 2010!!! The TSB's pertaining to the clutch and transmission in the 07-09 GT500's have nothing to do with this. The grind also has nothing to do with the 2010 organic clutch. This is a 2010 GT500 ONLY issue and only on some transmissions. If your 2010 GT500 has not experienced tough or grinding into 2nd gear with in the first 1000 miles, it won't most likely. Only a small group have the issue. Unfortunately, contrary to what was thought before it is not dependent on build date as the defective parts were used through-out the 2010 model year. Parts are sent to Tremec with one part #, then given another part # by Tremec, then given another by Ford. Parts when delivered to each manufacturer are put on shelves and used as needed. The 3 trans's that we used for these observations were a March, 2009 build date, an August, 2009 build date, and a December, 2009 build date (my original one), so it is sporadic all across the board of build dates. I took many pictures, and learned alot about these transmissions, but have been asked not to post pictures, which I planned on, but respect the decision of being told not to. I am not a transmission expert, but could clearly see the defective parts with my own eyes.
Parts replaced on my transmission, my customer's, and the spare...these are Ford part #'s:
1) AR3Z-7102-A Gear Mainshaft 2nd speed
1) 7R3Z-7177-A Washer
2) 7R3Z-7107-A 1st synchro blocker ring
1) 7R3Z-7124-A Synchro assy
1) 4R3Z-7K584-AB Clip
1) 7R3Z-7A082-A Trans control selector
1) AR3Z-7025-A Bearing
1) 7R3Z-7R482-A Output shaft washer
1) 7R3Z-7050-A Retainer spring
3) F6ZZ-7160-A Snap rings
1) 8R3Z-7117-C Bearing spacer
7) XT-5-QM Trans fluid ( for all 3 tranny's on this invoice)
2) PM-1-C Brake fluid ( for CSC bleeding)
Now those of you that are familiar with Ford part #'s are saying" those part #'s are for 04, 07, and 10!!" I know this!! My suggestion, and only my suggestion and opinion, is to wait if you have an 2010 trans issue for a couple weeks to a month before taking your car to have this warrantied as the parts are updated. Also be sure that your dealer ORDERS the parts and does not use any parts they have in stock if they have any of these parts in stock.
I think we really now have our answer key to the 1st to 2nd grind. Another customer with a 2010 that never had a grind brought his car in too for a "removal and inspection". His car has 13K VERY hard miles and 680 RWHP. My shop built the car. His trans looked perfect inside...no wear marks, hot spots, etc. Clutch even looked great still even with over 50 quarter mile passes and road racing. His build date is March 2009. Agin showing that it is not a build date issue.
I really hope this helps and allows others having the issue to get it fixed and learn to enjoy your cars again!!!
Alex
Good luck with this guys.
My only comment would be if you swap that shifter don't leave it in when you go see the dealer. They will use that to void your warranty. The only exception may be a Ford Racing shifter installed by a Ford dealer.
Tom
My only comment would be if you swap that shifter don't leave it in when you go see the dealer. They will use that to void your warranty. The only exception may be a Ford Racing shifter installed by a Ford dealer.
Tom
+1 The biggest problem is that Ford decided to keep the very low 2.97 first gear in these cars. This puts a tremendous load on the 2nd gear syncros because of the huge gap between the two gears, basically asking too much of the syncros which will fail quickly with this type of demand placed on them.
Unfortunatly Ford has decided to keep the very steep 2.97 instead of going with something better like a 2.66 1st gear ratio.
Until this issue is addressed this problem will continue to rear it's ugly head....
Oh and while your at it upgrading to a better syncro package than what comes in this trans wouldn't be a bad idea either IMO.....
Only problem is these cars are heavy and you need some gear to get moving off the line. A 2.66 would require an even taller rear end gear for drag racing and you could possibly run out of gear at the big end.
A 2.66 would be good with a built block that you could really spin.
It would also be great if Ford installed some better connecting rods with a 2.66 1st.
Why would anyone agree to not posting the pics if they were going to post about the findings? That sounds a lot like someone trying to hide something if you ask me. I certainly don't believe that they're trying to hide some sort of design secret, it's not like any competitor can't just buy a 6060 and take it apart themselves.
I paid a lot of money for a "Mustang" the least they can do is tell us about a fix that will make it work the way its supposed to.
Why all the mystery here if they know what the cause is? Why not just fix it and be done with it?
I paid a lot of money for a "Mustang" the least they can do is tell us about a fix that will make it work the way its supposed to.
Why all the mystery here if they know what the cause is? Why not just fix it and be done with it?
I'm actually holding off on any of my mods until there's more info on this. I have a pulley, Shelby shifter, complete J&M rear suspension, lowering springs and some other stuff just sitting in my garage waiting to get installed, but I'm afraid to pull the trigger until I know what's being done about the tranny. I may end up breaking down and just bringing it into the dealer to see what they say. At least that way its on record before I do any of the mods and if something pops up later on down the road I should be covered.:smmon:
All they did was put the same parts back in, I'm sure its better but I'm not sure if its 'fixed.'
The vettes in 2011 are getting carbon fiber blockers in the 6060 I have read. Hopefully the improvements trickle down and are direct fit.
Great write up.
It's disappointing to hear about this problem on the new GT500's. Looks like I'm going to be waiting on a used 2012. That is if Ford fixes the problem by then.
EDIT: Quick random question, when is the IRS expected to come back in the top of the line Mustang?
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i have an 08 that has this same problem. My tranny was replaced last august so it might have the 2010 parts in it, idk. I did speak with liberty gears in michigan who builds the cobra jets trannys and they have some upgraded parts to help with this problem. Also spoke with D&D performance and they say they have upgrades to for the trannys too. I will be racing the car at Z-Max NMRA and if the problem plagues me there then i will either be going to a BTS 4R100 or having one of these guys fix it then replace with a new spec clutch and a MGW shifter.
So out of thousands of cars. We have one that needed repairs. That's a killer failure rate. The rest of you need to learn how to drive. You could just wait till paddle shifting comes around. Wont be long, its coming. I just wonder what y'all would do back in the day of big blocks and rock crusher 4 speeds. If you have a bad synchro its not going to shift at all. Not even at slow speeds. For me this has been the easiest car I've ever shifted.
Glad to hear your a professional race car driver ! It's not a technique issue, I've shifting the same way for 15 years and never had an issue till now.
First of all, I've had or have been involved with more "race" cars than I care to discuss and many of them were "back in the day" muscle cars with Muncie's, Top Loaders, A833's, T-5's, T-10's, T-56's, 3650's, T-45's, etc.... I've owned and/or driven everything from 10 second street cars to low 9 second drag cars and many of them had been manually shifted. I've had more Mustangs than I care to discuss as well and have never had a problem driving or racing any of them. I'm by no means claiming to be a professional driver, but I am claiming to be a skilled and experienced driver and would put that skill and experience up against just about any semi-pro driver I've ever seen or spoken to. As well as skill and experience, I have been building and racing cars from the ground up for more than 15 years and I'm quite sure I know when a problem is a hardware problem rather than a software (driver) problem.
Now with that said, the problem I'm having with my car HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a driver error or failure. If it was a simple error in technique, I'd have broken the thing into a million pieces by now with sheer force. While it's clearly possible that some of the drivers may be causing the problem to become worse with technique, it's not technique that's initiating the problem and there is no technique that will eliminate the problem without replacing whatever parts are causing it.
I'll leave it at that in order to avoid the rock slinging that you are obviously trying to invoke.
I believe Ford wanted the steeper 2.97 1st for that very reason you mentioned about the weight and they thought that the average buyer using this car might have problems with a 2.66 simply because many don't really know how to drive a manual trans correctly and clutch problems might ensue. Well look what happened anyway, because of the wide gap between 1st and 2nd the syncros have taken a beaten and ultimately failed causing clutch failure anyway.
I know for a fact that there was much debate among the engineers at Ford about using the 2.66 1st but in the end the "cautious camp prevailed and they decided to go with the 2.97 1st.
I have 3.73 rear gears and I now am using the new 2.66 1st ,1.78(stock) 2nd,1.30 (stock) 3rd, 1.1 (stock) 4th, the new .74 5th, and .50 6th grear.(same as the 2010's and 11's)
Trust me the car drives way better now than it did before. No more "nose dive" between 1st and 2nd. It is a much more "normal" 1-2 shift feel and no extra stress on the syncros at all which allows for a faster 1-2 shift without fear of rejection or having to force it.
I will soon be changing the rear gears to the 3.55's as well. With the amount of torque this engine makes the 2.66 1st works perfect...IMO.
The .50 6th is quite a high ratio but the car cruises like a champ at 80mph with great fuel mileage too.
I think you are the one that needs to learn to shift, it doesn't happen if there is a 1 or 2 second lag between gears.
Do you have a 2010 or 2011 GT500? You can come and drive my car and show me what I'm doing wrong. Really, it's that simple. I've had plenty of big block GMs, Fords and Mopars. Something is funky with some of the current GT500s. Your car must not do it, but some cars do.
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it was kinda funny Ford didnt go with e 2.66 1st, cause they did on the 03-04 cobra's T56. any way i like your tranny gear setup. i would like that for mine with the 373's still
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