Anybody going to get a "Scat-Pack" R\T Challenger?

HEMI LOL

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Just picked mine up yesterday. It took right at a month from order to delivery. The 8 speed auto is awesome. Light years ahead of the pos MT-82 transmission that was in my 2012 GT. Different cars, but it's a nice ride don't plan on auto crossing it just cruising and the occasional trip down the drag strip. I'm 6'5" and it has a ton of room.

Challenger_zps835305c0.png



i think this is the key. for a driver and maybe a few nights at the strip in the summer the challenger is a great car.
 

Mr.Bolt-on

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Umm, no.

The '15 GT is faster than a 14 GT. What, one mag rags on it and that's what guys like you listen to? And hop city? Solid rears hop too. I'll take slight hop that can be alleviated easily over shit solid rear from the 80's. You get a stock 15 and a stock 14 at a dragstrip and the 15 will edge it out. The bigger difference is get them both on a road course and it'll be a much more drastic difference. The 14 will be seconds behind.

That 2.3l ecoboost just made 327whp/420wtq at Livernois from a TUNE Only. All stock down to the filter but tune. You know what these will be doing with boltons and tune? High 300s easy. A mild turbo swap, fmic? Easy mid 400s. All on stock motor. And 200lbs lighter than a GT. It'll be very light on its feet.

The 2.7 or 3.5 would make that car stock for stock faster than the GT. The good thing about the 2.3 is it'll share cross platform support with the focus rs.

The 13-14 has already been compared to the 2015 in the drag races. The 2015 is a tad bit slower in the quarter mile than the 2014.

12.8-12.9 for the 14 and 13.0-13.1 for the 15 in the 1/4. However this is due to the IRS being harder to launch in a straight line, and the fact that it is slightly heavier, making for a slightly slower car.

However the 15 will be better on the road courses as you said. I'm waiting to see what it can do on decent tires.
 

Riptide

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It's not like the 11-14 cars were bad on road courses. The track pack cars could hang with the M3.
 

jshen

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Thanks the car is pitch black with the Scat Pack Appearance Group (black forged wheels, black grill, black fuel cap cover, HID headlamps, and the stripe on the back which I could take or leave honestly). The only other options I got were Sound Group II which is pretty comparable to the Shaker 500 I had in my 2012 GT not great, but decent enough for me. The big option with these cars is the 8 speed auto. It's a 1400 dollar option, but you don't have to pay the gas guzzler tax so really it's a 400 dollar option and worth every penny. I'm still breaking the car in so taking it easy, but this thing is always in it's power band. I got the car for 39,500 with a 500 dollar Chrysler loyalty incentive. MSRP was 42,480. I think it's a lot of car for the money.

Sounds like you got a great deal. Base MSRP on the Scat Pack w/o any option on Dodge site is about 38500~but the 6 spd manual is standard and a gas guzzler tax then comes in.. I would option the same as you except I don't need nor want upgrade audio. The stripe on yours looks good with your color. Please keep me posted on your real world gas mileage..
 

jimmy77

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The 13-14 has already been compared to the 2015 in the drag races. The 2015 is a tad bit slower in the quarter mile than the 2014.

12.8-12.9 for the 14 and 13.0-13.1 for the 15 in the 1/4. However this is due to the IRS being harder to launch in a straight line, and the fact that it is slightly heavier, making for a slightly slower car.

However the 15 will be better on the road courses as you said. I'm waiting to see what it can do on decent tires.

Thank you.

Did you watch the Igninition episode where Randy Pobst compared the GT against the 1le Camaro? Pobst had nice things to say about the body stiffness but wasn't to impressed with the IRS. He also though that there was too much body roll. Again, why would Ford put a SOFT suspension on a TRAC PACK car? If I were to order a track pack car I would expect it to be a bit firm...and if I didn't want a stiff ride i'd order the standard car. If you're gonna call it a track pack....set it up that way. Hopefully the foreigners gobble it up cause I don't see any major moves in sales with the new cars.

Then again maybe they have a nice BOSS 302 type car already on the way.
 
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Troponin

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It's not like the 11-14 cars were bad on road courses. The track pack cars could hang with the M3.

Yeah, I didn't see the big leap I was expecting from the new Mustang since upgrading to the IRS. The SRA in the Mustang, even though it was considered out dated, somehow managed to do some pretty amazing things.
 

Ry_Trapp0

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It's not like the 11-14 cars were bad on road courses. The track pack cars could hang with the M3.
i remember following the rumors and hype of the then-upcoming '15 mustang, and i kept seeing people say "i can't wait to see a mustang that can handle/that can go around a track now that it has IRS!" and i just couldn't wrap my head around those statements in the least considering the Boss 302 already curb stomped the $20k more expensive BMW M3 but SECONDS on the race track. and, not only that, but was complemented for having more direct feel and better feedback.
you can give people knowledge but you can't teach common sense...

Thank you.

Did you watch the Igninition episode where Randy Pobst compared the GT against the 1le Camaro? Pobst had nice things to say about the body stiffness but wasn't to impressed with the IRS. He also though that there was too much body roll. Again, why would Ford put a SOFT suspension on a TRAC PACK car? If I were to order a track pack car I would expect it to be a bit firm...and if I didn't want a stiff ride i'd order the standard car. If you're gonna call it a track pack....set it up that way. Hopefully the foreigners gobble it up cause I don't see any major moves in sales with the new cars.

Then again maybe they have a nice BOSS 302 type car already on the way.
the entire point of the 1LE was to beat the Boss 302. despite it being only an "option package" like the track pack rather than a separate model like the Boss, the track pack and 1LE are definitely not comparable. add in the fact that the 5th gen is, at this point, a 5 year old car that has had stacks upon stacks of dollars poured into its further development AFTER the initial release, all the way to the point of having completely different suspension points on the chassis for the 2012+ models(GM FINALLY figured out that the family sedan suspension geometry was GARBAGE for handling).

the Boss 302-type car will be the GT350, which we'll see next year. but it'll be more Z28 than Boss 302(I.E., loads and loads of money thrown at fastest possible track times rather than built to fit a specific racing class[continental tire sports car challenge GS class]).
 

Ry_Trapp0

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Yeah, I didn't see the big leap I was expecting from the new Mustang since upgrading to the IRS. The SRA in the Mustang, even though it was considered out dated, somehow managed to do some pretty amazing things.
tires and suspension tuning(spring rate/shock tuning) makes a FAR bigger difference than switching from a solid axle to an IRS. everyone talks about how terrible solid axles are because a bump on one side of the axle affects the contact patch on the other side, but no one seems to "get" that the contact patch on an IRS is CONSTANTLY changing with body roll. once you dig into independent suspension design, you'll realize how it is far FAR more complex than "tires move independently = better grip", because every single aspect of the suspension geometry is a compromise in MANY aspects. there is no such thing as perfect independent suspension geometry because it is impossible to ever maintain 100% contact between the tire contact patch and the pavement. the angle of the tire is constantly changing because the suspension points are mounted to, and thus influenced by the chassis, while the tires of a solid axle move independently of the chassis(assuming zero bind in the solid axle's suspension - this isn't true for '79-'04 mustangs as the shitty design of the triangulated 4-link with bushings[instead of spherical joints] will bind up and cause the inside tire to lift after so many degrees of body roll. the S197 has an insignificant amount of bind though, being a 3-link + panhard) and thus maintain a nearly parallel contact patch to the road surface(with sidewall roll being the only significant influence to the contact patch at that point). so, you need to add static negative camber to an independent suspension to compensate for body roll changing the suspension geometry(0 degrees of static camber would lead to positive camber gain of the outside tire in a corner, causing a loss of grip as the inside of the outside tire lifts off the ground), which means that you're on the inside edges of the tires while going in a straight line, thus reducing forward traction. and, while you can add negative camber to flatten out the contact patch of the outside tire in a corner, the inside tire is FAR from parallel and is contributing very little to overall cornering grip. meanwhile, the inside tire on a solid axle maintains pretty much the same contact patch as the outside tire. while the additional grip of the inside tire may not add a whole lot to the overall cornering grip, every little bit counts. keep in mind that, theoretically, you can put down power sooner on corner exit with a solid axle since the inside tire is the most likely to spin and you have much more contact patch on the ground vs the independent suspension(that's dependent on a LOT of variables outside of suspension geometry though). and, finally, the constant camber change of an independent suspension hurts breaking too as, again, you're not maintaining a parallel contact patch. but we're morso commenting on rear suspension design than front, so it doesn't have a very significant impact(though worth noting none the less).

all in all, the solid axle is SEVERELY underrated in cornering ability/handling prowess because the vast majority of people that comment on it have a very limited, rudimentary understanding of the VAST amount of variables and design compromises that play into cornering grip. the S197 didn't really "over achieve" with the solid axle as much as it was just a good example of what a well designed and executed solid axle is capable of. it's basic geometry and physics at work.

"but what about bumps?" how bumpy are the roads that you carve up or the race tracks you drive on? not anywhere near as bumpy as internet conjecture says i bet...
 

ShiftyThePirate

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Just picked mine up yesterday. It took right at a month from order to delivery. The 8 speed auto is awesome. Light years ahead of the pos MT-82 transmission that was in my 2012 GT. Different cars, but it's a nice ride don't plan on auto crossing it just cruising and the occasional trip down the drag strip. I'm 6'5" and it has a ton of room.

Challenger_zps835305c0.png

Even the 08-14 NAG-1 5-speed auto did far better than the TR6060, and the MT82 is known to be horrible, so I would expect that for sure, but yeah, the 8-Speed is a monster, automatics are going to kill stick no question, it's kind of a dying art now.

And yes, the Challengers have TONS of room vs the Mustang (plus just flat out bigger which reminds me of classics) (ten-fold vs the Camaro) that's one thing I miss big time aside from that 6.0l+ roar. I've only experienced the 8-speed in the RAM and JEEP SRT8, it is crazy fast but even the paddles seem pointless, as the transmission shifts with ease in 160ms and you always finds the peak gear.

Also the track-pack GT's can't really hang with the M3 at all, only the 302 Laguna could. Amazing vid if anyone is up for a fun watch, though the M/// driver screws up BIG time.

[video=youtube_share;mgTYDnLGQbg]http://youtu.be/mgTYDnLGQbg?t=4s[/video]

The boss about a minute in has one bad ass intro, but you gotta remember it lacks all the luxury\features that the M3 has.

Video is worth watching just because of the American bad-ass that shows up, and that guy KNOWS how to drive. Gotta love his video with the Venom GT.
 
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Ry_Trapp0

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Also the track-pack GT's can't really hang with the M3 at all, only the 302 Laguna could. Amazing vid if anyone is up for a fun watch, though the M/// driver screws up BIG time.

*VIDEO*

The boss about a minute in has one bad ass intro, but you gotta remember it lacks all the luxury\features that the M3 has.

Video is worth watching just because of the American bad-ass that shows up, and that guy KNOWS how to drive. Gotta love his video with the Venom GT.[/QUOTE]
really guy, matt farah KNOWS how to drive? not criticizing him, i'm a big fan of both him and adam carolla(and enjoyed that show too), but he's just not anything special on a track(and he's said as much in some of his videos). if you want to someone who can REALLY drive - I.E., professional race car driver with multiple wins and championships - check this one out...

[video=youtube;uOwSPccbzl4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwSPccbzl4[/video]
...the mustang GT is all of 9-hundreths of a second(0.09) slower than the M3 - if that's not "hanging with", i don't know what is. before you mention Pobst's critcims of the mustang, consider that the mustang GT is the equivalent of a 335i, while the M3 is the equivalent of a Boss 302 or GT500. speaking of which... no, it doesn't take a 302LS to "hang" with an M3 - it utterly curb stomps it - as the base Boss 302 is significantly faster.
 

trc46

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Your response couldn't be further from common sense. What exactly would you call a 2door car with 430hp, brembos, recaros, forged 20x11 wheels, 6speed only? A station wagon??? Be realistic with your responses next time. I agree dollar for dollar the mustang is a much better car, no denying that, but the fact you don't see the camaro as a muscle car makes you lose credibility for word one.

P.s.. LS1 cars were blowing up ten bolts left and right. guess those weren't muscle cars either? Maybe 4door hybrids better describes them?

I take offense to that generalization
 

ShiftyThePirate

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Your response couldn't be further from common sense. What exactly would you call a 2door car with 430hp, brembos, recaros, forged 20x11 wheels, 6speed only? A station wagon??? Be realistic with your responses next time. I agree dollar for dollar the mustang is a much better car, no denying that, but the fact you don't see the camaro as a muscle car makes you lose credibility for word one.

P.s.. LS1 cars were blowing up ten bolts left and right. guess those weren't muscle cars either? Maybe 4door hybrids better describes them?

Have you..driven a Camaro??..I've had the SS, driven the ZL1 (get a CTS-V for that price unless you are dumb), and just...unless you are buying in convertible, there is no point. Want a usable back-seat? Forget it, Get a Corvette, as it won't happen in the Camaro, Vett justifys no rear-seating, Camaro does not, friends above 5'3 are not going to be happy, one thing that stunned me was the convertible option (only way I'd get one) I test drove a GT-500 Convertible and the top went down within about 20-30 seconds, the Camaro...hold the button for 2-3 seconds after twisting that hard handle that you would assume belonged on a pressurized door in a submarine, 2-3 minutes later top would be down and sealed, I'd say honestly 4 minutes vs the 30-60 sec GT convertible, going from top up to down.

And Ford is boosting that the '15 GT will be 20% FASTER at lowering the convertible roof, which is just crazy considering how god-awful slow the Camaro convertible was.

Camaro IMO SUCKS at daily driving, the visibility is ridiculously bad. I agree the Camaro isn't a muscle as #1, it was designed by the Korean that now works with VW\Audi, Sang Yup Lee, who now actually works within a budget he can design good aggresive looks rather than smooshing everything down. Drive a Camaro, if you think with those tiny windows all around you + zero back-seat (once again, get a Vett) is remotely American designed, just :nono:

But no really, anyone who "loves" the Camaro, just go drive it, unless you are one short\small person you will hate it. My 6.1l SRT-8 w\ the 5-Speed ate the LS9 Versions and those who couldn't shift at all for breakfast as well (LS3 version). They just never impressed me and the new rear-end design killed it for me, seems like they threw in a bit of Volt in there. Space difference is beyond obvious though. Remember, Challenger is "like" the old school muscle cars, sedan turned into a 2-door (technically so is the Camaro as the platform is shared with the G8 Pontiac. I just find it weird Chevy\Ford haven't put in 8-speed trans to compete yet and Dodge is the only one using engine displacement right now to help them.

Also find it weird Ford in the auto-trim Ford used plus and minus buttons rather than paddle shifters or slap sticks to go through the gears...at least that is corrected for '15.
 
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jimmy77

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i remember following the rumors and hype of the then-upcoming '15 mustang, and i kept seeing people say "i can't wait to see a mustang that can handle/that can go around a track now that it has IRS!" and i just couldn't wrap my head around those statements in the least considering the Boss 302 already curb stomped the $20k more expensive BMW M3 but SECONDS on the race track. and, not only that, but was complemented for having more direct feel and better feedback.
you can give people knowledge but you can't teach common sense...


the entire point of the 1LE was to beat the Boss 302. despite it being only an "option package" like the track pack rather than a separate model like the Boss, the track pack and 1LE are definitely not comparable. add in the fact that the 5th gen is, at this point, a 5 year old car that has had stacks upon stacks of dollars poured into its further development AFTER the initial release, all the way to the point of having completely different suspension points on the chassis for the 2012+ models(GM FINALLY figured out that the family sedan suspension geometry was GARBAGE for handling).

the Boss 302-type car will be the GT350, which we'll see next year. but it'll be more Z28 than Boss 302(I.E., loads and loads of money thrown at fastest possible track times rather than built to fit a specific racing class[continental tire sports car challenge GS class]).

I'd say there VERY comparable. The 1le package is one step up from the standard v-8 Camaro...just like the track pack is one step up from the standard GT....and the BOSS isn't built anymore. Aren't the prices of the track pack and 1le cars comparable? Do I think Handling is everything? NOPE, the mustang has waay better everything else....I just would have thought that FORD could have topped a similarly priced/performance...especially a 3 year old car. GM builds the better suspensions...period. (and that's about it too)

Today I saw my first 15 mustang at a dealership..competition orange/50th anniversary 5.0. Much nicer in person....I'm looking for some good" crow seasoning" if anybody has some :)....Ford will sell more than a few stateside. My wifey wants it. :)
 

RedRocketMike

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The '15 GT is faster than a 14 GT. What, one mag rags on it and that's what guys like you listen to? And hop city? Solid rears hop too. I'll take slight hop that can be alleviated easily over shit solid rear from the 80's. You get a stock 15 and a stock 14 at a dragstrip and the 15 will edge it out..


I believe American Muscle already did that and the 2012 was in the 12's and 15 wasn't. Based on all the passes they've done with new 5.0's at Cecil County dragway, a notoriously fast track, the 15 is a touch slower so far.
 

ShiftyThePirate

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I'd say there VERY comparable. The 1le package is one step up from the standard v-8 Camaro...just like the track pack is one step up from the standard GT....and the BOSS isn't built anymore. Aren't the prices of the track pack and 1le cars comparable? Do I think Handling is everything? NOPE, the mustang has waay better everything else....I just would have thought that FORD could have topped a similarly priced/performance...especially a 3 year old car. GM builds the better suspensions...period. (and that's about it too)

Today I saw my first 15 mustang at a dealership..competition orange/50th anniversary 5.0. Much nicer in person....I'm looking for some good" crow seasoning" if anybody has some :)....Ford will sell more than a few stateside. My wifey wants it. :)

You like the new look of the 15? To me it's def a generation leap into "modern" and reminds me of "import" too much....I mean heck it is literally built for the 2.4l sales :-\

Also as RedRocket said, yeah the '15's are not "faster" in V-8 trim, Ford is REALLY embracing the 2.4l eco-boost which...is going to just be embarrassing when those are all over the road.
 

Ry_Trapp0

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I'd say there VERY comparable. The 1le package is one step up from the standard v-8 Camaro...just like the track pack is one step up from the standard GT....and the BOSS isn't built anymore. Aren't the prices of the track pack and 1le cars comparable? Do I think Handling is everything? NOPE, the mustang has waay better everything else....I just would have thought that FORD could have topped a similarly priced/performance...especially a 3 year old car. GM builds the better suspensions...period. (and that's about it too)

Today I saw my first 15 mustang at a dealership..competition orange/50th anniversary 5.0. Much nicer in person....I'm looking for some good" crow seasoning" if anybody has some :)....Ford will sell more than a few stateside. My wifey wants it. :)
if you pretend like the two cars weren't developed for completely different purposes, then sure, they are comparable. but even a blind man can see that the performance pack(not track pack, which i mistakenly said) is aimed at the enthusiast that just wants a sportier mustang, while the 1LE was, quite literally, developed to run a faster lap time on a race track than the Boss 302. news flash - race tracks are smoother and more consistent than the real world, you can run higher spring rates and tighter shock valving if you're putting race track lap times over ride quality. if ford actually cared about putting down faster lap times than the 1LE, don't you think they would just put stickier tires on the car? don't you think they would stick the Boss 302 adjustable monotubes on the performance pack? don't you think they would stick the torsen T2 in the differential?

and, to say that "GM builds the better suspension" just makes me think that you have an extremely rudimentary understanding of what goes into automotive design. i mean, you're basically saying that ford's engineers just don't have the intelligence to develop a mustang that can handle better than the camaro. does that sound stupid to you when i put it that way? especially when the components that make the 1LE quicker in the corners aren't made by GM, they're just more expensive, higher end components from suppliers(like tires). it's SO easy to drop lap times at this level that i don't know how anyone can't see that ford didn't give two shits about the 1LE when they developed the performance pack. if anything, they're expecting potential buyers to test drive the two and think "wow, the camaro rides like shit compared to the mustang" rather than pick up a copy of motortrend and think "the 1LE is faster on a race track that i'll never drive on? take my money, GM!!!"
 

Para81

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I think the Scat Pack with 700hp is pretty cool. Reliability would scare me though with that car.

Newer model Ford's have amazing reliability, i've put 70,000 miles on a 05 Mustang GT, 29,000 miles on an 08 Shelby GT500 (modded up to 600rwhp), and already over 16,000 miles in my 13' Boss 302 Laguna Seca - (including some HPDE at Road Atlanta/Sebring etc.) NOT ONE ISSUE EVER WITH ANY OF THESE FORD'S. Amazing cars.

Having said that, I can't get over the new styling of the Mustang - I prefer the round old school headlights. We'll see how the new Dodge does...
 

Riptide

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if you want to someone who can REALLY drive - I.E., professional race car driver with multiple wins and championships - check this one out...
This is exactly the video I had in mind when I made my comments. And yeah - Pobst can drive. IMO that vid is pretty much the last word on the issue.
 

jimmy77

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if you pretend like the two cars weren't developed for completely different purposes, then sure, they are comparable. but even a blind man can see that the performance pack(not track pack, which i mistakenly said) is aimed at the enthusiast that just wants a sportier mustang, while the 1LE was, quite literally, developed to run a faster lap time on a race track than the Boss 302. news flash - race tracks are smoother and more consistent than the real world, you can run higher spring rates and tighter shock valving if you're putting race track lap times over ride quality. if ford actually cared about putting down faster lap times than the 1LE, don't you think they would just put stickier tires on the car? don't you think they would stick the Boss 302 adjustable monotubes on the performance pack? don't you think they would stick the torsen T2 in the differential?

and, to say that "GM builds the better suspension" just makes me think that you have an extremely rudimentary understanding of what goes into automotive design. i mean, you're basically saying that ford's engineers just don't have the intelligence to develop a mustang that can handle better than the camaro. does that sound stupid to you when i put it that way? especially when the components that make the 1LE quicker in the corners aren't made by GM, they're just more expensive, higher end components from suppliers(like tires). it's SO easy to drop lap times at this level that i don't know how anyone can't see that ford didn't give two shits about the 1LE when they developed the performance pack. if anything, they're expecting potential buyers to test drive the two and think "wow, the camaro rides like shit compared to the mustang" rather than pick up a copy of motortrend and think "the 1LE is faster on a race track that i'll never drive on? take my money, GM!!!"

Sound stupid? So tell me what ford suspension is superior or equal to the adjustable GM mag suspension? Lets give some credit to GM engineers...the caddies and corvettes do pretty well. Do I think ford instead focused on the total package. Yes I do and I agree racetrack numbers aren't everything. However, most mustangs(ones that I might drive) will see waaay more hard straight line accerleration,,,,thus the bad wheel hop issue is a downer. I'm just SURPRISED they even let it get out like that.

In the big picture...the Mustang is on its 50th year of product and that is INCREDIBLE in and of itself. Ford knows a thing or 2 about cars also.
 

RedRocketMike

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I think the Scat Pack with 700hp is pretty cool. Reliability would scare me though with that car.

Newer model Ford's have amazing reliability, i've put 70,000 miles on a 05 Mustang GT, 29,000 miles on an 08 Shelby GT500 (modded up to 600rwhp), and already over 16,000 miles in my 13' Boss 302 Laguna Seca - (including some HPDE at Road Atlanta/Sebring etc.) NOT ONE ISSUE EVER WITH ANY OF THESE FORD'S. Amazing cars.

Having said that, I can't get over the new styling of the Mustang - I prefer the round old school headlights. We'll see how the new Dodge does...


You would have to add at least a 1 to the front of all those numbers to be boasting about reliability.
 

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