Coyote vs ls motor's

[Cobra 6245]

OK so if you LS owners are getting 28 mpg out of f-bodies and GTOs then why is the new Camaro only rated at 24 highway? Its got vvt and active fuel management all to help with fuel economy and the LS3 from what I've heard from you guys this is superior to the LS1 or LS2 so why does not it get 28mpg? I know the answer to this because my brother in law owns a 2010 Camaro and got rid of his 99 for it. We have had many discussions about his car and I have driven it personally and we just talk honest facts and have no need to argue. This car does in fact get worse mileage on a 100 mile trip (mostly highway) than my Cobra and his car has yet to hit 24 mpg.

 

[S8ER01Z]

OK so if you LS owners are getting 28 mpg out of f-bodies and GTOs then why is the new Camaro only rated at 24 highway? Its got vvt and active fuel management all to help with fuel economy and the LS3 from what I've heard from you guys this is superior to the LS1 or LS2 so why does not it get 28mpg? I know the answer to this because my brother in law owns a 2010 Camaro and got rid of his 99 for it. We have had many discussions about his car and I have driven it personally and we just talk honest facts and have no need to argue. This car does in fact get worse mileage on a 100 mile trip (mostly highway) than my Cobra and his car has yet to hit 24 mpg.

Easy... the system they use to test is completely different from the way I drive. They have a crazy test they go through in different ways to 'mimic' how the 'average' person drives. If I drive agressive I get no where near 28mpg... if I take it easy I get 28 easy. Look at the drop in MPG between models during the last testing change. Cars that previously did very well now get significantly less.

I drive 280~290miles a week and at the end of the week I put in 11~12 gallons of gas. I've done this for ~4 years now (as long as I've had the job) and my drive includes city and in town driving. Several times on long distance all highway trips I've done ~330miles before hitting empty and filling up.

It's completely dependent on how you drive.


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=16502
(New method LS1 rated 20mpg combined, 26hwy)
(Old method LS1 rated 22mpg combined, 28hwy)

 

[mustangmanjeff]

2010 v6 mustang

3.7 liters
305hp ($25,000-$29k)
3400-3500lbs


2010 mustang gt 5.0
base v8 car ($28,000-$30k)
412 hp
5.0 liters
3500-3600lbs

shelby mustang gt500
$48,00-$52k
540hp
5.4 s/c
3700-3800lbs

chevy/ponatiac/ gm/LS :

1993-1997
lt1 camaros/pontiac firebird/transam
z28/ss
5.7 liters
275hp-285hp

1998-2002 ls1 camaro z28/ss/pontiac firebird transam
5.7 liters
305hp-345hp


1997-2004 corvette c5/z06
5.7 liter ls1/ls6
ls1 5.7 liter= 345hp,350hp
5.7 liter ls6 z06= 385hp,405hp


chevy corvette 2005+
ls2 / ls3

6.0 liter or 6.2 liter

6.0 ls2= 400hp
6.2 ls3= 430,436hp

camaro v6
3.6 liter
304hp
3700-3800lbs

camaro ss v8
6.2 liter
426hp
3800-3900lbs

ponatiac gto
5.7 liter ls1 or ls2
350hp
3700-3900lbs

ls2 gto
6.0 liters
400hp
3700-4000lbs


dodge hemi 5.7 or 6.1 liter

hemi charger r/t

5.7 liter
340hp,368hp

charger srt8
6.1 liter
425hp

challenger R/T
5.7 liter hemi
376hp

challenger srt8
6.1 liter
426hp



or for example other cars

lexus isf 400hp but cost =$50-$65k
bmw m3 400hp = $50k-$60k


and those are all larger engines in in top end fully loaded cars vs base model mustang gt v8.




mustang gt = better looking better sounding lighter car power to weight, similar or more horsepower then the 5.7,6.0,6.2 liter competition, cheapest 400hp factory car you can buy $28,000-$30k+ and all this in a base model v8 gt mustang making same horsepower as cars in high end fully loaded class.


So I dont care what u gm fanbois say go cry on a gm forum.

 

[Butters916]

I dont care about stock either Im not stock and I smoke bolt on or stock ls1's so think again buddy,and when I Had less power i destroyed stock or bolt on lt1's, yes with bolt ons u make more power because the larger motor we kno this, Im just lol that all the chevy nutswingers are on a mustang forum bitching to prove the camaro gm/ chevy is better, yes alot of them are they have the larger motors, I just find it funny and understand why the chevy guys are pissed, chevys 5.7 liter and 6.0 in the gto / camaro/ camaros make the same or less horsepower and are high end models and are heavier,the gt mustang is a base model v8 car, and yeah who cares stock mod the new 5.0 and see what numbers it makes as well

this coming from a guy whos h/c/i and bolt on 5.0 makes 360hp. My ls1 would make that with just bolt ons.

Yes it would to each there own I like corvettes, but camaros are junk anything after 1969 camaro is a ugly and tractor sounding shitbox, and horsepower isnt everything,like u said I can mod my car any amount of money can get me 500hp easily to with a blower on my setup for another $3k and shit on alot of ls1;s, but the simple face I think mustangs look 100x better then ur ugly catfish so I dont care,always some 1 faster, but whats funny go look up some old threads of my, Ive raced about 4 diff stock bolt on or modded lt1 slowmaros and smoked them and those are 5.7 liters, and i smoke stock ls1's and ive raced bolt on camaros and beat them, only camaros I lose to are cammed or cars with more then bolt ons, ive even raced a bolt on c5 auto vette that made same power as me and i destryoed it and about a 1 year ago I posted race of me vs a stock c5 z06 and I had him up to about 130 and of course his cars top end destroyed my and then blew by me..


but dude I dont care about ur ugly catfish I kno what chevys do, I use to own a 98 transam to btw, I just cant stand how they look and sound, the mustang might be smaller engine but mods take care of the horsepower diff like u said right who cares about stock? and they look and sound better. and I rather own a transam or pontiac gt/ gxp over any shitbox ls camaro ugly turd

Well most of what you said is pure opinion as far as looks/ sound go.
Now when you say that you smoke most..well anything GM do you mean from a stop or roll? Also what rear gear are you running? prob not the 2.73 or 3.08 that were stock in those cars. BTW I do have a cammed and bolt on Ls1 so you wont be shitting on me with your current setup.

 

[mustangmanjeff]

I dont care about stock either Im not stock and I smoke bolt on or stock ls1's so think again buddy,and when I Had less power i destroyed stock or bolt on lt1's, yes with bolt ons u make more power because the larger motor we kno this, Im just lol that all the chevy nutswingers are on a mustang forum bitching to prove the camaro gm/ chevy is better, yes alot of them are they have the larger motors, I just find it funny and understand why the chevy guys are pissed, chevys 5.7 liter and 6.0 in the gto / camaro/ camaros make the same or less horsepower and are high end models and are heavier,the gt mustang is a base model v8 car, and yeah who cares stock mod the new 5.0 and see what numbers it makes as well




Well most of what you said is pure opinion as far as looks/ sound go.
Now when you say that you smoke most..well anything GM do you mean from a stop or roll? Also what rear gear are you running? prob not the 2.73 or 3.08 that were stock in those cars. BTW I do have a cammed and bolt on Ls1 so you wont be shitting on me with your current setup.

I said I can smoke stock, or bolt on, modded lt1's and stock or bolt on ls1's,

I didnt say I smoke cammed ls1's or or 1's heavily modded 1's, I get smoked by cammed camaros, Im just responding to that moron said about stock and I said I dont care about stock either im not stock and im racing bolt on or modded cars to I dont care theres always some 1 faster, i have 3.73 gears and so ive shocked a few c5 vette guys and bolt on ls1's and I ve ran into way to many cocky lt1 guys,When it comes to my car I dont say shit and I get sick of reading all these cocky ls1 owners and gm fanbois on a mustang site, or the vette or lt1 guys that start shit with me usually get there ass handed to them and afterwards end up asking " wtf do you have done to your car? haha so they get whats coming to them, I'm just saying Im not dumb Im not only a " mustang " fan im a car fan, I kno what gm cars can do, i owned a ls1 transam, and I want a ls3 pontiac gxp, or gt, but i rather have them or a corvette over the ugly camaro ,

I might act dumb sometimes but not stupid lol I dont pick fights on cammed ls1's I kno what they run, but if i really cared about power I can easily slap my vortech v3 on my car and make 550rwhp, and smoke them to but u can make any car fast,:beer:

I mean I have a friend with a h/c/ i turbo ls1 z28 camaro and he makes about 500hp, Hell with my vortech v3 on my motor now already making 360hp, 8-10psi and I have a 500hp 5.0.

But Im selling this car anyways, time to move on up from the gt to a new 2011 gt or a shelby or 03-04 cobra show them gm boys whats really up

 

[Cobra 6245]

Easy... the system they use to test is completely different from the way I drive. They have a crazy test they go through in different ways to 'mimic' how the 'average' person drives. If I drive agressive I get no where near 28mpg... if I take it easy I get 28 easy. Look at the drop in MPG between models during the last testing change. Cars that previously did very well now get significantly less.

I drive 280~290miles a week and at the end of the week I put in 11~12 gallons of gas. I've done this for ~4 years now (as long as I've had the job) and my drive includes city and in town driving. Several times on long distance all highway trips I've done ~330miles before hitting empty and filling up.

It's completely dependent on how you drive.


Compare Old and New MPG Estimates
(New method LS1 rated 20mpg combined, 26hwy)
(Old method LS1 rated 22mpg combined, 28hwy)

Why did my car do better than his on the same trip with me following him at the same speed then?

 

[Stew]

Do you know what rear gears Ford bases their mileage calculations on? If I am not misstaken, I think they have a few more options than the Camaro, which would impact the ratings, as I believe you can get a base GT with 2.73's.

The stock is 3.31s and 3.55s and 3.73s are optional, the gears shouldn't effect the MPG as the 10 offers the same gears and the mileage is the same on all, same with the CHallenger R/T 6 speeds with their 3.73 and 3.92 gears. So the rating will stay at 25 MPG, no matter factory rear it has.

 

[Stew]

I think both are great engines as is the Hemi, they both make the power cust in different ways. The LS3 with it's extra displacement and simpler tech and is going to be the easiest to get the power from more cheaply. Now, if you take the total package in, IMHO the Mustang is the better total package. It has the power, lighter weight, better gearing, better hanling, better attention to detail and all for the lower price.

 

[Butters916]

I said I can smoke stock, or bolt on, modded lt1's and stock or bolt on ls1's,

I didnt say I smoke cammed ls1's or or 1's heavily modded 1's, I get smoked by cammed camaros, Im just responding to that moron said about stock and I said I dont care about stock either im not stock and im racing bolt on or modded cars to I dont care theres always some 1 faster, i have 3.73 gears and so ive shocked a few c5 vette guys and bolt on ls1's and I ve ran into way to many cocky lt1 guys,When it comes to my car I dont say shit and I get sick of reading all these cocky ls1 owners and gm fanbois on a mustang site, or the vette or lt1 guys that start shit with me usually get there ass handed to them and afterwards end up asking " wtf do you have done to your car? haha so they get whats coming to them, I'm just saying Im not dumb Im not only a " mustang " fan im a car fan, I kno what gm cars can do, i owned a ls1 transam, and I want a ls3 pontiac gxp, or gt, but i rather have them or a corvette over the ugly camaro ,

Im dumb but not stupid lol I dont pick fights on cammed ls1's I kno what they run, but if i really cared about power I can easily slap my vortech v3 on my car and make 550rwhp, and smoke them to but u can make any car fast,:beer:

I mean I have a friend with a h/c/ i turbo ls1 z28 camaro and he makes about 500hp, Hell with my vortech v3 on my motor now already making 360hp, 8-10psi and I have a 500hp 5.0.

But Im selling this car anyways, time to move on up from the gt to a new 2011 gt or a shelby or 03-04 cobra show them gm boys whats really up

Look, sounds to me like your just as frustrated with you 95 GT performance after modding it, as I was with my 2005 Mustang GT after I modded it. I understand the feeling of modding out a car with thousands of dollars and hours of labor then getting beat by a cam, exhaust terd wagon camaro or whatever you call them driven by some schmuck. So if you cant beat them, join them..get a vette or gxp and I promise you wont look back. haha

 

[Formula51]

Actually the Mustang GT is rated 25 MPG highway, same as the Challenger R/T, the Camaro is 24. The thing is that the GT is better geared for performance than the Camaro (the Camaro way less agressive gearing to achieve it's mileage), also the automatic SS gives up 26 HP and utilizes MDS to achieve it's 24MPG, the new GT auto does niether.

The Mustang GT manual as I stated is rated at 16/24mpg so far, nothing is official. The auto is said to make 17/25mpg.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/12/2011-ford-mustang-gt-at-2010-detroit-auto-show.html

As for the Camaro, it gets 16/24mph with a manual and 16/25mpg with the automatic. Yes, it uses MDS, which is usually only good for 1 or 2 mpg. It also is a lot heavier than the Mustang like I stated earlier and is running heavier wheels, brakes, and wider tires. The V8 Mustang gas mileage just isnt that impressive. Wouldn't you expect a less powerful, 300lbs. lighter car with relatively small wheels, skinny tires, and light brakes to do a lot better than "equal" the other cars gas mileage?

As I stated, the gearing slightly favors the Mustang. I only showed 6th gear because that is what will be used for the highway tests and the 1-5 gears should have little effect on gas mileage as you can shift at whatever rpm you want. I am pretty positive the tests are based on speed and you can be in whatever gear your car best performs. Example, the Camaro may run a 45mph segment of a test in 4th gear and the Mustang may run it in 5th. Depending on what the test speeds are, this could slightly favor the Mustang or Camaro. It should be rather insignificant though and helps to explain why both cars get the same city mileage rating.

Highway mileage is essentially measuring engine efficiency at low rpm part throttle. It is where the most fuel efficient powertrain should shine through. In the case of these two, they are equal. I expected the Mustang to do better.

 

[Formula51]

I dont care about stock either Im not stock and I smoke bolt on or stock ls1's so think again buddy,and when I Had less power i destroyed stock or bolt on lt1's, yes with bolt ons u make more power because the larger motor we kno this, Im just lol that all the chevy nutswingers are on a mustang forum bitching to prove the camaro gm/ chevy is better, yes alot of them are they have the larger motors, I just find it funny and understand why the chevy guys are pissed, chevys 5.7 liter and 6.0 in the gto / camaro/ camaros make the same or less horsepower and are high end models and are heavier,the gt mustang is a base model v8 car, and yeah who cares stock mod the new 5.0 and see what numbers it makes as well

Yes it would to each there own I like corvettes, but camaros are junk anything after 1969 camaro is a ugly and tractor sounding shitbox, and horsepower isnt everything,like u said I can mod my car any amount of money can get me 500hp easily to with a blower on my setup for another $3k and shit on alot of ls1s, but the simple fact I think mustangs look 100x better then ur ugly catfish so I dont care,always some 1 faster, but whats funny go look up some old threads of my, Ive raced about 4 diff stock bolt on or modded lt1 slowmaros and smoked them and those are 5.7 liters, and i smoke stock ls1's and ive raced bolt on camaros and beat them, only camaros I lose to are cammed or cars with more then bolt ons, ive even raced a bolt on c5 auto vette that made same power as me and i destryoed it and about a 1 year ago I posted race of me vs a stock c5 z06 and I had him up to about 130 and of course his cars top end destroyed my and then blew by me..


but dude I dont care about ur ugly catfish I kno what chevys do, I use to own a 98 transam to btw, I just cant stand how they look and sound, the mustang might be smaller engine but mods take care of the horsepower diff like u said right who cares about stock? and they look and sound better. and I rather own a transam or pontiac gt/ gxp over any shitbox ls camaro ugly turd

Whew! That was hard for me to read. Yankees......what are we gonna do with them.....and they all keep moving here. Thanks Obama!:uh oh::uh oh:

Now that I think of it, I should go shit on my LS1 this weeked and take a picture (put some platic wrap down first of course) then you guys can post it all over the internet with one of those "owned" sayings on it or something. Aight Yo.

Ohh and I could get a picture with the front end with a napkin around my neck and table cloth laid down in front and some ketchup in my hand......mmmmm, I love fried catfish. Maybe I could photoshop some smoke coming out of the hood for the "Fried" effect.

 

[stangliter04]

Are we really arguing MPG??? Seriously ....

 

[GTSpartan]

How much CO2 per mile does the new 5.0 emit?

 

[Formula51]

Are we really arguing MPG??? Seriously ....

Hey, it may not matter to a lot us, me inlcuded, but it is a way to measure engine efficiency.

I thought we were debating two different types of engines but somehow we started talking about shitting on engines. Hmm, I wonder which engine could hold a larger pile of shit.....help me out here mustangmanjeff.

 

[Formula51]

How much CO2 per mile does the new 5.0 emit?

Fueleconomy.gov has both the 2010 4.6L and the 2010 Camaro LS3 at 9.6 tons per year. Man that pained me to lookup that bs driven information. Remember when CO2 was considered a product of "perfect combustion" ahhh the good old days.....then there was the pending ice age and global cooling in the 1970's, shoot I'm off track now, what were we talking about. haha.

 

[Silver2003Cobra]

No you **** nut, i'm saying the engines produced by GM were better than ford engines. You ****ing idiot you realize that when there were no fbodys made the Lsx engines still continued. :bash:

hmmmm, I'm the **** nut? yet your the one saying they are getting better fuel economy, OF COURSE THEY ARE, your comparing them in a 2 seat Corvette that weights hundreds of pounds less than a Mustang.. (since your comparing them for the last 15 years) now a Mustang and a F body get comparable fuel economy, since they weight about the same, and have the same aerodynamics..

so.. your the moron here, comparing a pony car vs a sports car.. now lets keep it apples to apples comparison and not an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[S8ER01Z]

This thread is getting smack down worthy... I sense some infractions in the near future.

 

[ChiSVT]

Absolutely, but it can be hooked up. Henessey's supercharged Camaro makes significantly more torque off idle than even the Super Snake and it hooks up pretty well with some sticky 305's. Same with the 295's on the CTS-V.

The GT500 needs some sticky 295's at a MINIMUM.

I agree, but I don't think the new 2011 GT will have remotely the same issues as the GT500.

As for Hennessey's Camaro, well that's an aftermarket car with drag radials! The CTS-V automatics hook up, but the M6s are fairly inconsistent just like the GT500.

 

[ChiSVT]

This thread is getting smack down worthy... I sense some infractions in the near future.

It actually was in smackdown but got moved here for some reason..:shrug:

 

[Lt. ZO6]

I mean I have a friend with a h/c/ i turbo ls1 z28 camaro and he makes about 500hp, Hell with my vortech v3 on my motor now already making 360hp, 8-10psi and I have a 500hp 5.0.

If your friend has a H/C/I LS1 (turbo'd) and he is only making 500rwhp, then tell him to actually instal the turbo instead of leaving it in the box.

A H/C/I LS1 will be between 400-500 rwhp, depending on the heads/cam setup, without any forced induction.

A SC/TT'ed LS1 (no other mods) will be 475-550 (depending on tune, boost, etc.).

BS on your claim about your friend.