Epa seeks to prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars

[MachME]

I am not a green nut by any means but what I really want to see is the car community stop removing their catalytic converters. They provide pretty much all the emissions for gasoline cars. We continuously see 200-500hp, stock cars even, removing these thinking it does something, when in reality they are only picking up a few hp. Unless you're running a ton of boost or whatever setup that could melt a cat, you don't need to remove it. It comes down to money too, since aftermarket exhaust with cats are always more money.

 

[LS2GTO]

Enforcement isn't the point IMO. Just because enforcement is difficult we should just let them pass it?

No it's not, and of course I don't want them to pass it. Just trying to say that it's not as bad as it seems if offroad cars will have to stick to the same rules as street cars when all it takes is a minor inconvenience to go around this crap. People are going crazy over this when they really shouldn't.

And like Mach said, I don't think it will be so bad to have some sort of pollution control on these racecars...especially when it won't make that much of a difference in their power output. I mean I don't get how if a car is on a racetrack it's ok to completely pollute the air with all that crap but if a car is 100ft away on a public road it's not. It's still the same air.

 

[DHG1078]

What is illegal today is not the same as what these regulations are proposing. Today, it is perfectly legal to drive a non emissions compliant vehicle on the race track, but not the street. They are proposing that it will be illegal to drive a non emissions compliant vehicle anywhere.

There are examples of exhaust shops that won't remove cats or touch a car without cats. Some tracks could do the same to free themselves of any liability, and enforce emissions equipment at tech inspection. All of this of course depends on what sort of fines/inspections/regulations get implemented and who can be deemed responsible for these things.

 

[Blk04L]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear this comes up every so often. It's like gun bans on a national level. Bill gets proposed, then dies off shortly after.

 

[GT Premi]

Heaven forbid the aftermarket companies have to put their thinking caps on and try to make performance parts that work well AND are environmentally friendly!! Egad!

And to make some of you aware, there ARE motorsports involving cars outside of drag racing. Those racing bodies DO have to meet emissions standards for their class and series, albeit lower standards than a street car. I don't know if it has passed yet, but a few years ago FIA (that's the Formula 1 boys) was even pushing for minimum fuel economy standards for race teams. So it's not like it's some free-for-all when it comes to sanctioned and regulated racing. The aftermarket has just been putting in minimum effort for maximum profit by going after low-hanging fruit.

If you're worried about not being able to go as fast, just remember that EVERYBODY will be going slower, so what are you really losing? People just love to get all up in arms over every little thing.

 

[MFE]

I'm all for modding our cars and shit, but let's not go quite that far. Do you really want to live and breathe the air like in Mexico City or Beijing? I know I don't.

But back to the topic at hand. I don't think this will affect the racecar industry that much...what's the difference if your purchase a street car then turn it into a straight racecar vs. buying a premade racecar like those kits you can buy online?

Now the enthusiasts will definitely be affected as we won't be able to mod our cars that much. But it all depends on what rules they put around catching the violations. I mean it's illegal today to remove the cats and all the other emissions stuff...but that's not stopping people from doing that because the inspection rules are so lax. If they change those to be like in California then we're screwed.

Considering that about 98% of the cars used for racing on race tracks started life as a street-legal car, I'd say the impact would be pretty big.

 

[2000gt4.6]

Heaven forbid the aftermarket companies have to put their thinking caps on and try to make performance parts that work well AND are environmentally friendly!! Egad!

And to make some of you aware, there ARE motorsports involving cars outside of drag racing. Those racing bodies DO have to meet emissions standards for their class and series, albeit lower standards than a street car. I don't know if it has passed yet, but a few years ago FIA (that's the Formula 1 boys) was even pushing for minimum fuel economy standards for race teams. So it's not like it's some free-for-all when it comes to sanctioned and regulated racing. The aftermarket has just been putting in minimum effort for maximum profit by going after low-hanging fruit.

If you're worried about not being able to go as fast, just remember that EVERYBODY will be going slower, so what are you really losing? People just love to get all up in arms over every little thing.

And I'm absolutely sure none of that would drastically increase prices of parts either... Lol

 

[Coiled03]

Of course they want to do these things.

They have to justify their pointless existence, somehow.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Heaven forbid the aftermarket companies have to put their thinking caps on and try to make performance parts that work well AND are environmentally friendly!! Egad!

And to make some of you aware, there ARE motorsports involving cars outside of drag racing. Those racing bodies DO have to meet emissions standards for their class and series, albeit lower standards than a street car. I don't know if it has passed yet, but a few years ago FIA (that's the Formula 1 boys) was even pushing for minimum fuel economy standards for race teams. So it's not like it's some free-for-all when it comes to sanctioned and regulated racing. The aftermarket has just been putting in minimum effort for maximum profit by going after low-hanging fruit.

If you're worried about not being able to go as fast, just remember that EVERYBODY will be going slower, so what are you really losing? People just love to get all up in arms over every little thing.

Do all of the modifications on your GT500 and Audi comply with EPA and government regulations? Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

No it's not, and of course I don't want them to pass it. Just trying to say that it's not as bad as it seems if offroad cars will have to stick to the same rules as street cars when all it takes is a minor inconvenience to go around this crap. People are going crazy over this when they really shouldn't.

And like Mach said, I don't think it will be so bad to have some sort of pollution control on these racecars...especially when it won't make that much of a difference in their power output. I mean I don't get how if a car is on a racetrack it's ok to completely pollute the air with all that crap but if a car is 100ft away on a public road it's not. It's still the same air.

It is OK because so far we've managed to not let them completely legislate our hobby.
There must be some give and take between the Gov, the people and the enviroment or we will all lead very boring lives.
Like to fish? This will cover your boat motor also.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear this comes up every so often. It's like gun bans on a national level. Bill gets proposed, then dies off shortly after.

Yea, it does but each time they manage to pass some parts of it. Not to mention the fact that they appear to have tried to sneak it in on an unrelated regulation.

Heaven forbid the aftermarket companies have to put their thinking caps on and try to make performance parts that work well AND are environmentally friendly!! Egad!

And to make some of you aware, there ARE motorsports involving cars outside of drag racing. Those racing bodies DO have to meet emissions standards for their class and series, albeit lower standards than a street car. I don't know if it has passed yet, but a few years ago FIA (that's the Formula 1 boys) was even pushing for minimum fuel economy standards for race teams. So it's not like it's some free-for-all when it comes to sanctioned and regulated racing. The aftermarket has just been putting in minimum effort for maximum profit by going after low-hanging fruit.

If you're worried about not being able to go as fast, just remember that EVERYBODY will be going slower, so what are you really losing? People just love to get all up in arms over every little thing.

Up in arms? This was introduced in July 2015 and other than 1 or 2 other places I saw it this is the first public post I see of it.

I'm gonna love seeing all the evap system, AIR pump and cats make it through the BAJA 1000.

Bottom line IMO, they tried to sneak one over on us that is unwarranted as emissions from race cars is so tiny compared to the trucks they were going after.
If you want to go after the race industry then maybe they should start with leaded race fuel.
Oh wait, that's coming because you cant run leaded fuel with cats......

 

[GT Premi]

Do all of the modifications on your GT500 and Audi comply with EPA and government regulations? Yeah, didn't think so.

You didn't think at all. Yes, they do. I live in an emissions state.

 

[BoostedByV]

Sign now

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-house-...ent-the-epa-from-banning-vehicle-modification

 

[DHG1078]

You didn't think at all. Yes, they do. I live in an emissions state.

What mods do you have on the 3 cars in your sig? The only one listed, Revo Technik stage 1 tune for the audi, and I am quite sure it never went through emissions approval.

 

[GT Premi]

What mods do you have on the 3 cars in your sig? The only one listed, Revo Technik stage 1 tune for the audi, and I am quite sure it never went through emissions approval.

The GT500 and the Forester have CARB EO# stickers. I'm not positive, but I think the S4 does, as well.

 

[_Snake_]

......they snuck this into a regulation originally written for trucks.

Thank you

.

 

[MachME]

How does tuning create more emissions? I thought it just does not pass on a aftermarket tune because the scan tool will show a code, so you go back to stock.

A tune usually optimizes the engine to run even better and people pick up MPGs.

The only damaging thing I think of is not running cats. Run cats, like I say in my previous post.

 

[jbs$]

What I wish to see is an election of an Adminstration that will remove this nanny state agency from it's intrusive position into the lives of the American Citizens. A budget cut of at least 80% will be a good start. With the budget cut, there should be the addition provision that none of the people let go are eligible for re-hire on the Federal payroll.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

How does tuning create more emissions? I thought it just does not pass on a aftermarket tune because the scan tool will show a code, so you go back to stock.

A tune usually optimizes the engine to run even better and people pick up MPGs.

The only damaging thing I think of is not running cats. Run cats, like I say in my previous post.

That is not how the Gov sees it.

Stock A/F ratio is set to meet the EPA Regs. Once you alter that you are illegal. Just as cars since 1986 and EFI were designed to run ~220° for complete fuel burn. Putting in a 180 stat and lowering fan settings to help prevent detonation would be illegal.
Any modification to the EVAP/emissions system or computer tunes is wrong in their eyes.
People don't really comprehend what allowing something like this to pass would do to the sports we love, the hobby most love and the industry.

If I want to build a rat rod, resto mod or factory five kit I now have to go with emissions in place at the year I build it not what was in the 69 Camaro or the 65 shelby Cobra.

Can you fit all the emissions stuff under the hood of a Shelby Cobra kit? If it fits it now kills the look.
The side pipes must now have cats? You know what it will do to the cost of already expensive side pipes?
So now a kit car project for fun that may get driven a couple hundred miles a year cost 15K more with worse performance and looks that will never win a car show.

This is bad for the automotive world in many ways.

 

[2000gt4.6]

Any way you cut it, you could completely eliminate motorsports and all past present and future modifications and it wouldn't make a squirt of piss difference to the environment.

While "big" as an industry its a tiny portion of the cars on the road, and many many of the cars are not daily driven. In addition, the largest polluters (all out race cars) are the smallest segment and the least likely to be daily driven.

Millions upon millions of unmodified cars in every major city vs a fraction of a fraction of tuned or modified cars/trucks. Not to mention the largest polluters which are by far electrical power production and the meat industries.

You're laying on the road after a horrendous crash with broken bones, internal damage and a foot long cut spewing blood and guts. The paramedic walks up and starts treating a hangnail.

 

[thomas91169]

I'm all for modding our cars and shit, but let's not go quite that far. Do you really want to live and breathe the air like in Mexico City or Beijing? I know I don't.

Nope, and a free market would dictate these things from happening.

99% of our populace will still buy cars they deem more efficient, in both MPG and Emissions. They wont go out of their way to buy something with no cats or smog equipment.

Agreed,
Being in the petro-chemical industry, don't think for 1 minute that big companies wouldn't put all kinds of shit in the air/water if they could and it saved them $$$.
The EPA is needed but they like all other gov. entities need some monitoring.

And then someone does a netflix special on said company putting all kinds of shit in the water, then nobody buys products that are produced by them anymore until they clean up their shit.