First 2018 Shelby GT500 Spy Video

[93 347 Cobra]

5L coyote blocks are known to be problematic with high power, my research says the 5.2 block is strongest factory casting, thin wall or not.
-J

I'm curious to hear more about what you've found. It may shed light on where Ford goes with the next giant-killer. I've openly speculated 115-mm bore spacing for cooling reasons and the decrease in piston speed but if you have info that would support 5.2 being feasible at 725-750 horses I'm definitely interested in hearing more.

when the hellcat came out an svt engineer said "just wait till you see what we're planning"... to me that comment isn't the gt350 but something more powerful than hell cat....

just my.02 The car is coming it will have lots of power, i am curious as to how though... turbos, blower, 5.0,5.2, something else like the 6.2 or trinity maybe even just the ford gt motor. who knows.

If the engineers are excited then it means we definitely will be. The Trinity and modulars are all dead. This is a good thing because if you look at a Hellcat dyno graph and a Trinity dyno graph you'll see the Trinity engines, even modded start running out of steam at 4250 rpm in torque production. Horsepower is a mathematical function of torque so I tend to disregard it when looking at dyno graphs. Cammed Trinity motors hold on a bit longer but at the expense of low-end torque. Variable Cam Timing is a big deal for high rpm power production without sacrificing low-end. The Hellcat holds on very well until 5000 and tails off much more gradually and it's due to the ability to dynamically retard the cam. DOHC has a huge advantage in having separate cams on intake and exhaust so those valves can be advanced and retarded separately for maximum efficiency instead of having intake and exhaust chained together on one cam and advanced or retarded to the same degree. So I view the lack of VCT on Trinity as a huge opportunity lost.

This is why I'm very excited about the new car, there are a number of game-changing technologies coming. Those bigger pinned brake rotors that perform identically to carbon-ceramics at a fraction of the price, magnetic shocks, IRS, Variable Cam Timing, available 10-speed auto (I want 7-speed man), Eaton's new TVS2, HUD shift light, possible carbon fiber wheels, Sync 3 etc.

That spy vid has a very deep tone and tells me we won't be disappointed.

 

[SlowSVT]

I'm curious to hear more about what you've found. It may shed light on where Ford goes with the next giant-killer. I've openly speculated 115-mm bore spacing for cooling reasons and the decrease in piston speed but if you have info that would support 5.2 being feasible at 725-750 horses I'm definitely interested in hearing more.



If the engineers are excited then it means we definitely will be. The Trinity and modulars are all dead. This is a good thing because if you look at a Hellcat dyno graph and a Trinity dyno graph you'll see the Trinity engines, even modded start running out of steam at 4250 rpm in torque production. Horsepower is a mathematical function of torque so I tend to disregard it when looking at dyno graphs. Cammed Trinity motors hold on a bit longer but at the expense of low-end torque. Variable Cam Timing is a big deal for high rpm power production without sacrificing low-end. The Hellcat holds on very well until 5000 and tails off much more gradually and it's due to the ability to dynamically retard the cam. DOHC has a huge advantage in having separate cams on intake and exhaust so those valves can be advanced and retarded separately for maximum efficiency instead of having intake and exhaust chained together on one cam and advanced or retarded to the same degree. So I view the lack of VCT on Trinity as a huge opportunity lost.

This is why I'm very excited about the new car, there are a number of game-changing technologies coming. Those bigger pinned brake rotors that perform identically to carbon-ceramics at a fraction of the price, magnetic shocks, IRS, Variable Cam Timing, available 10-speed auto (I want 7-speed man), Eaton's new TVS2, HUD shift light, possible carbon fiber wheels, Sync 3 etc.

That spy vid has a very deep tone and tells me we won't be disappointed.

:dw:

 

[Breitling]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I wonder if Ford will invest in more aluminum components to save weight. I think they shaved nearly 700lbs off of the new F-150. I know they will not be able to replicate this weight savings on the GT500, but shaving 300lbs could make this car even faster. I think my GT500 weighs in around 3,850 with 662HP. Imagine it with 725HP+ and 3,500lbs. :coolman:

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I wonder if Ford will invest in more aluminum components to save weight. I think they shaved nearly 700lbs off of the new F-150. I know they will not be able to replicate this weight savings on the GT500, but shaving 300lbs could make this car even faster. I think my GT500 weighs in around 3,850 with 662HP. Imagine it with 725HP+ and 3,500lbs. :coolman:

Everyone is speculating that S650 is the aluminum redesign. 2020 is the rumored debut.

 

[FortLewisCobra]

5L coyote blocks are known to be problematic with high power, my research says the 5.2 block is strongest factory casting, thin wall or not.
-J

Feel like spilling the beans? The solutions to the boss block (5.3 mod) head gasket woes have gotten more creative than OEM would be comfortable with, a boosted 5.2 should have the same complications compared to a regular 5.0. I don't see how .2L is worth the durability issues on a supercharged car.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

Is this real?

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

NVM, it's an old image.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Feel like spilling the beans? The solutions to the boss block (5.3 mod) head gasket woes have gotten more creative than OEM would be comfortable with, a boosted 5.2 should have the same complications compared to a regular 5.0. I don't see how .2L is worth the durability issues on a supercharged car.

Not directed at me but I went back and read a couple of articles on this site and it was stated that deck plate honing makes the cylinders rounder and stronger.

 

[Dusten]

That may be the case but having a linerless block especially in a supercharged engine is very risky and expensive should something goes wrong. The Trinity guys are very reluctant to run big boost where the Terminator and early GT500 wouldn't bat an eyelash and install a big turbo or blower.

I'm afraid the new GT500 will be taking the same path. Feel free to mod "around the edges" but don't touch that engine! Keep in mind the car companies are going out of their way to lighten the engine which doesn't bode well for durability. The old 4.6 and 5.4 blown motors can easily cope with making twice the hp on mostly stock internals and are cheap to rebuild. Blowing up a Trinity engine would have me in tears.

that's a little bit general of a statement. The 5.4 lightnings didn't hold good power, and I wouldn't call any mod motor cheap.

 

[SlowSVT]

that's a little bit general of a statement. The 5.4 lightnings didn't hold good power, and I wouldn't call any mod motor cheap.

Agree, that is a rather general statement. A better choice of a word would have been "cheaper"

I was referring more to the GT500 then a Lightning both which could use a better set of rods.

The major cost difference happens when you score a cylinder on a linerless block compared to a iron or aluminum mod motor which can take 3 overbores. A new Trinity block which Ford considers to be "non-serviceable" will set you back $6000 alone (unless you sleeve it which comes with it's own set of problems) which would cover the entire cost of a mod motor rebuild. You can pull a Romeo block out of a wrecking yard if needed. A Trinity block will never be found in one of those places.

The Trinity guys have already figured this out very few will stretch their engines as far as the guys with the 4.6 and 5.4's will. I'm afraid the new GT500 will be following in the same footsteps :nonono:

 

[93 347 Cobra]

So I downloaded the late 2015 Ford UAW contract on Scribd and on page 8 under product commitment at each engine plant it states Romeo Engine gets 150M and that "5.2L engine will continue, with upgrade" and that "6.2L engine will continue, with upgrade and new displacement to support Super Duty". Don't be too confused by "with upgrade" because all engines that were continuing production at all engine plants have that same language attached. So it's Ford jargon that only insiders would understand it could mean simply after plant upgrades, or it could literally mean an upgraded 5.2.

That 5.2 would continue isn't surprising as they still had the rest of 2016MY and 2017MY engines for GT350 to fulfill. What strikes me particularly is the new 6.2-based displacement. We haven't seen anything at all about that on Super Duty. I still haven't completely given up hope on a destroked 6.2-based DOHC for the new GT500 so would this language give Ford wiggle room to hide the new GT500 engine in the language for Super Duty? Or am I being a bit silly here?

Increasing power from 662 to somewhere over 707 while going backwards on displacement from 5.8 to 5.2 strikes me as a difficult engineering undertaking. Not impossible but it makes it less likely they can decrease boost pressure by much. They were having issues evacuating the heat from around the exhaust valves on Trinity as it was, Trinity was at the limit with 100mm bores. So how do they solve that issue without additional coolant passage real-estate? Substantially redesigned 5.2 head?

These will be excellent questions for the engineers when we finally do find out what engine they chose. I'm on the de-stroked 6.2 DOHC theory and the language in the contract still keeps the door open for that possibility. I think the Eaton TVS2 is also much more likely than turbos due to packaging considerations. Either the 5.2 or a destroked 6.2 enables them to keep the deck height around 9-inches to give them clearance for the S550's general swoopy hoodline and have a blower up top.

 

[apat3123]

If I had to pick after seeing that video from a 5.2 or a 6.2, I would say 6.2.

Just something about the older mod motors and their exhaust notes.

 

[apat3123]

Can't wait to see the car in person!

 

[DepWraith]

My bet is on a twin turbo 5.0 with 62mm turbos.

 

[paluka21]

My bet is on a twin turbo 5.0 with 62mm turbos.

Here's my thoughts on a 5.0. Since 2007 Ford has put a unique motor in the GT500's to separate them from the GT's. While the Coyote platform has a ton of potential, I don't believe Ford will put a 5.0 modular motor in the up and coming GT500 simply because it's the same motor in the "5.0 GT".
Ford has also invested time and money in the 5.2 Voodoo motor for the GT350, so in my opinion it wouldn't be unheard of for them to up the ante on this platform by lowering compression and adding forced induction. Again, just my opinion, but I would think it would either be the 5.2L Voodoo platform or the 6.2 motor.
Either way, we should know something more about this car by next summer.

 

[DepWraith]

Here's my thoughts on a 5.0. Since 2007 Ford has put a unique motor in the GT500's to separate them from the GT's. While the Coyote platform has a ton of potential, I don't believe Ford will put a 5.0 modular motor in the up and coming GT500 simply because it's the same motor in the "5.0 GT".
Ford has also invested time and money in the 5.2 Voodoo motor for the GT350, so in my opinion it wouldn't be unheard of for them to up the ante on this platform by lowering compression and adding forced induction. Again, just my opinion, but I would think it would either be the 5.2L Voodoo platform or the 6.2 motor.
Either way, we should know something more about this car by next summer.

Wouldn't be surprised to see it at LA Auto Show in November.

 

[Clemson]

The 6.2 is in the 2017 Super Duty. Not sure why youre all surprised about it being mentioned.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

The 6.2 is in the 2017 Super Duty. Not sure why youre all surprised about it being mentioned.

It's not the 6.2 that's surprising, it's the "new displacement" of the 6.2 that's surprising. We haven't seen any announcement of a new displacement V8 for Super Duty so that in and of itself is surprising and newsworthy. Even if it's just for Super Duty.

The whole crux of the reasoning for a 6.2 derivative for the next-gen GT500 is based upon the info that surfaced during Trinity's development. 1) High piston speeds due to long stroke 2) long stroke due to bore limitations of 100mm bore spacing 3) exhaust valve temps being at the edge of the envelope 4) the need for more power and the corresponding increase in heat making it even more difficult to cool the exhaust valves for long-term durability (valve tuliping)

115-mm bore spacing solves all of those problems and would enable a destroked/shorter-deck 6.2 derivative to have a deck-height of right around 9-inches give or take. I think 5.8 is a magic number for Ford fans so that would be my guess. 105-mm bore X 84-mm stroke yields 355.1 cubes/5.8 liters. Trinity had a 93.5-mm bore on 100-mm bore spacing so going from that very tight 6.5-mm to 10-mm or more between cylinders is a huge % increase. The business case for putting this 5.8 Boss (formerly Hurricane) in the GT500 is strengthened by also using the same architecture and displacement for Super Duty.

 

[DepWraith]

Won't meet MPG requirements with a 6.2...a boosted 5.0 with the 10 speed auto would though.

 

[paluka21]

Won't meet MPG requirements with a 6.2...a boosted 5.0 with the 10 speed auto would though.

What MPG requirements are you referring to? They'll slap a gas-guzzler tax on the car just like Dodge did with the Hellcats if it cannot come in under the EPA requirements. Regardless if it's fuel injected or direct injection they can do some amazing tweaks to the tuning to get the most from gas economy.