For the Guys who run a 4L + blower

[blowbye]

Ive measured a head and the biggest restricion to the water system in the front is in the head. It is smaller then the factory necks and has and area aprox. .74sq in. now the rear t's together and exit one port that goes to the heater core. Inside the manifold this line gets restricted to a .320 hole. Thats all the rear gets. That would be an area of .08sq in. I know -an is nominal so you would have to measure the id of all the fitting but -12 may work. I would have to take in account for bends and hose legnths.

 

[sqidd]

Ive measured a head and the biggest restricion to the water system in the front is in the head. It is smaller then the factory necks and has and area aprox. .74sq in. now the rear t's together and exit one port that goes to the heater core. Inside the manifold this line gets restricted to a .320 hole. Thats all the flow the rear gets. That would be an area of .08sq in. I know -an is nominal so you would have to measure the id of all the fitting but -12 may work

Water restriction is per inch/cm/yard/meter/etc. 6" of .75" restriction has a much smaller effect than let's say 6' of .75" restriction. The hoses coming off the front of the manifold (that are fed from the front of the heads) are 1.25". Simple math says that if you put -12 lines on there they will match the restriction in the heads and won't hurt water flow. Reality is different, that added length of .75" restriction adds up.

The engine coolant flows at about 12gpm. If you were to replace the upper two radiator hoses with -12 that will drop to about 9gpm. A full 25%.

 

[blowbye]

I was just showing the smallest restriction point. You are right. However if you also added them the the rear and balanced the water flow out of the head. That could possibly equal stock flow for the 07-12 cylinder head. Ive heard that ford increased the flow in the trinity heads but havent measured any up yet.

 

[sqidd]

I was just showing the smallest restriction point. You are right. However if you also added them the the rear and balanced the water flow out of the head. That could possibly equal stock flow for the 07-12 cylinder head. Ive heard that ford increased the flow in the trinity heads but havent measured any up yet.

I've had to extrapolate this from actual test data I have (which is a LOT) so these numbers are "fuzzy".

A stock engine cooling system (including all four exits from the cylinder heads, I didn't account for the two rear ones in my figures above) is moving about 15.5gpm. If you were to run a -12 at all four corners of the heads you would be looking at about 30gpm. That doesn't factor in restrictions that may be present in the rest of the system though. Which there almost certainly are. So best case going with four -12's will increase water flow. Worse case is that there is a restriction somewhere else in the system that will hold that flow number down. But it won't be worse than stock. So it's a no lose situation really as long as you don't mind two extra lines that need to be account for, plumbed, etc.

 

[SlowSVT]

The plastic gasket between the heads and the intake manifold will go a long way from dissuading heat from propagating to the intake. Even a thin paper gasket will act to slow the heat transfer down though not as good as a thicker plastic gasket. Any material you place there will get saturated with heat, what you want to do is slow the transfer and just about any material other than copper or aluminum will do that.

Unless you have a dedicated cooler for the blower I would stay away from a liquid cooled blower all your doing is dragging 200 degree engine heat to the blower. Kenne Bell adds length to their blowers to achieve the desired displacement which increased the disparity between the cold side (intake) and the hot side (discharge). The bigger KB can get very long as a result compared to Whipple which ups the rotor diameter to increase the displacement. Something tells me KB had to resort to liquid cooling to maintain consistent case temperature to maintain the proper rotor clearance between the hot and cold side of the blower along the rather long length of the blower housing by saturating the entire thing with heat from the engine. In addition, the engine will actually propagate heat to the blower when it's temperature is cooler than what it's attached to. If you go with a dedicated cooler that will amplify this effect even more as heat likes to migrate to cooler areas of the engine.

Having put some thought into this I decided to just install the blower as intended with no effort needed to insulate the blower any further than it already is.

 

[sqidd]

In regards to are spacers worth it if you still have coolant running through the manifold.


This is something I wrote for something else, but it applies:


“Hey, my GT500 has coolant running through the manifold. Won’t this negate the benefits of the spacers?” Good questions. Some of the blower kits (not many) have the engine coolant running through the intake manifold. Of course, this means that the intake manifold will still have a “heat load” on it even with the spacers. The short answer is that no, the spacers will not be as effective as they would on a manifold with no coolant in it. But it’s not as bad as you would think. The cylinder heads run very hot. Even with a 160deg thermostat in we have never seen a cylinder head temp under 195deg (we’re constantly measuring stuff with a laser pyrometer). So, the heads are pretty hot (225deg is not that uncommon). If you have a manifold that has coolant running through it you have two heat sources. You have the cylinder heads transferring heat. And you have the coolant transferring heat. The spacers take care of the heads, which are by far the hottest and represent a large transfer surface area. The coolant is at a much lower temp (if you’re running a 160deg thermostat, which you should be). Yes, the coolant will transfer heat, but it doesn’t have nearly the impact that the heads do. Additionally, your under-hood temps are a lot hotter than you think they are. 160-180deg under-hood temps are the norm unless you have a VERY vented hood. So yes, the coolant running through the manifold is not helping the manifold temp. But, the manifold exists in an environment (under-hood temps) where it’s soaking up heat anyway. Yes, water transfers heat faster than air so a 160deg water temp will heat the manifold up faster than 160deg air will, so It’s not ideal (what ever is?). But there will be times where your under-hood temps are higher than 160deg and in theory the coolant running through the manifold will actually be helping keep the manifold temp down. This is all educated guestimate stuff though. We don’t have any science to back this up. All of that said, yes, the spacers won’t have the same impact on a manifold with coolant running through it. But, you could then make the argument that manifolds with coolant running through them need the spacers MORE.

 

[blowbye]

The plastic gasket between the heads and the intake manifold will go a long way from dissuading heat from propagating to the intake. Even a thin paper gasket will act to slow the heat transfer down though not as good as a thicker plastic gasket. Any material you place there will get saturated with heat, what you want to do is slow the transfer and just about any material other than copper or aluminum will do that.

Unless you have a dedicated cooler for the blower I would stay away from a liquid cooled blower all your doing is dragging 200 degree engine heat to the blower. Kenne Bell adds length to their blowers to achieve the desired displacement which increased the disparity between the cold side (intake) and the hot side (discharge). The bigger KB can get very long as a result compared to Whipple which ups the rotor diameter to increase the displacement. Something tells me KB had to resort to liquid cooling to maintain consistent case temperature to maintain the proper rotor clearance between the hot and cold side of the blower along the rather long length of the blower housing by saturating the entire thing with heat from the engine. In addition, the engine will actually propagate heat to the blower when it's temperature is cooler than what it's attached to. If you go with a dedicated cooler that will amplify this effect even more as heat likes to migrate to cooler areas of the engine.

Having put some thought into this I decided to just install the blower as intended with no effort needed to insulate the blower any further than it already is.

I was planning on cooling my kenne bell with my trunk mounter intercooler tank. Im also not wanting to run ice. I just want a greater fluid capacity. Figured i would have enough capacity to cool my intercooler as well as the blower.

 

[blowbye]

I've had to extrapolate this from actual test data I have (which is a LOT) so these numbers are "fuzzy".

A stock engine cooling system (including all four exits from the cylinder heads, I didn't account for the two rear ones in my figures above) is moving about 15.5gpm. If you were to run a -12 at all four corners of the heads you would be looking at about 30gpm. That doesn't factor in restrictions that may be present in the rest of the system though. Which there almost certainly are. So best case going with four -12's will increase water flow. Worse case is that there is a restriction somewhere else in the system that will hold that flow number down. But it won't be worse than stock. So it's a no lose situation really as long as you don't mind two extra lines that need to be account for, plumbed, etc.

Might be possible to modify the thermostat housing by removing the 1and1/4 hose fittings and welding in 4 -12 fittings. You would have to find a way to plumb in the heater core but im sure you could t that in somewere. That would limit the restiction possibilities. Just have to add a gas vent to the tallest point in the system

 

[sqidd]

Might be possible to modify the thermostat housing by removing the 1and1/4 hose fittings and welding in 4 -12 fittings. You would have to find a way to plumb in the heater core but im sure you could t that in somewere. That would limit the restiction possibilities.

If you look at Weatherman's pictures (linked on page 1) you can see the billet T-Stat housing I made for him. That guy could easily be converted to accept four -12's.

 

[SlowSVT]

I was planning on cooling my kenne bell with my trunk mounter intercooler tank. Im also not wanting to run ice. I just want a greater fluid capacity. Figured i would have enough capacity to cool my intercooler as well as the blower.

That's a lot of added weight and complication you would be better off replacing the reservoir with an HE in an airstream. Reservoir are holding tanks by definition not efficient cooling devices. Once the water in the reservoir gets saturated with heat all your doing is circulating hot water with some heat dissipated along the way. Fluid "capacity will do squat for the blower I prefer the factory burp tank. Keep in mind water sucks-up heat like a sponge but has a harder time getting rid of it.

Don't even bother running ice in anything but a drag car it will have the longevity of a fruit fly.

 

[blowbye]

Sorry should of went more in depth. I will be running a H/E as well. The weight is in the right place for me atleast. Hopefully ill get a little more grip. Im not big into 1/4 mile stuff. Just a street/roll race car. I dropped alot of coing for my hp.... I want to have it all the time.

 

[SlowSVT]

Sorry should of went more in depth. I will be running a H/E as well. The weight is in the right place for me atleast. Im not big into 1/4 mile stuff. Just a street/roll race car. I dropped alot of coing for my hp.... I want to have it all the time.

Keep the dedicated HE, "deep six" the reservoir.

Some guys plumb the LC blower to the IC system which will do wonders for IAT2 temps.

 

[sqidd]

Keep the dedicated HE, "deep six" the reservoir.

Some guys plumb the LC blower to the IC system which will do wonders for IAT2 temps.

I am highly skeptical that you could even measure the difference. The blower itself adds very little heat to the discharge temp in relation to the heat created by compressing the air.

 

[blowbye]

Keep the dedicated HE, "deep six" the reservoir.

Some guys plumb the LC blower to the IC system which will do wonders for IAT2 temps.

perhaps ill just make a small tank to go were the battery use to be.

 

[blowbye]

Like this with -16 out of all 4 cornersView attachment 1449727

Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk

Do you have any of those spacers for sale?

 

[blowbye]

I am highly skeptical that you could even measure the difference. The blower itself adds very little heat to the discharge temp in relation to the heat created by compressing the air.

I would agree but running engine coolant through would heat the case up and transfer heat into the lower manifold. If i decide to use spacers to isolate my manifold from the engine heat i would like to blower case to be as cool as possible without causing any interference issues (no ice). Without the phenolic spacers it woudnt be much of an issue.

 

[sqidd]

I would agree but running engine coolant through would heat the case up and transfer heat into the lower manifold.

Most of the time that is correct. The only time engine coolant will actually cool the blower is when the blower is on boost. And your delta between the blower and the coolant won't be very high.

If i decide to use spacers to isolate my manifold from the engine heat i would like to blower case to be as cool as possible without causing any interference issues (no ice). Without the phenolic spacers it wouldn't be much of an issue.

I think I'm following you here. If I were running spacers between the manifold/heads and had a KB blower I would run intercooler system water (post heat exchanger) to the blower. But not ice water. From what I understand that creates a delta too high and you can run into clearance issues i the blower.

 

[SlowSVT]

I am highly skeptical that you could even measure the difference. The blower itself adds very little heat to the discharge temp in relation to the heat created by compressing the air.

Compressing the air "is" the source of heat which can go as high as 300 degrees or higher depending on the boost level and compressor design. When not under boost the incoming air will actually cool the supercharger.

 

[SlowSVT]

perhaps ill just make a small tank to go were the battery use to be.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a reservoir which will provide little-to-no value to the system. The factory IC actually does a good job cooling the charge temperature.

 

[sqidd]

Compressing the air "is" the source of heat which can go as high as 300 degrees or higher depending on the boost level and compressor design. When not under boost the incoming air will actually cool the supercharger.

At 15psi a discharge temp of 300deg is middle of the road. Under those conditions a liquid cooled blower using engine coolant or intercooler coolant would provide some cooling of the IAT. As a percentage incredibly small though. Probably impossible to measure. And there are no such thing as liquid cooled blowers anyway, so it's a moot point.