Ford Shelby Mustang GT350 to get 5.2-Liter Flat-Plane Crank V-8 ??

[jshen]

Not to "rain on the parade" but I honestly ask what benefit all the technology going into this engine will mean to the consumer. Prices for cars are already high, but will this tech increase the price it will bring to the cars? I don't know the technology here, but I do know that costs get passed on to the consumer. I also look at the reports of the general financial condition of the US consumer. So is this another idea that Ford will market to the exclusive few? Ford has done an admirable job in engine development but I also see the huge cost increase to the consumers on Ford's pet projects (other manufacturers pet projects such as Z28 and Hellcat/challenger are the same) that has put what was, historically, cars the average Joe could afford out in the twilight zone...and let's not forget the current administration (EPA, CAFE) all thrown in the mix.

I do love the technological improvements-as well as the expertise offered by some on this forum- interesting and educational- but pricewise I am on the sidelines as an interested observer.

I am still pissed about the Admin costs thrown on the Shelby...and that I didn't get one because of that..

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

I don't see how anyone can complain about costs. The car is what it is and you can either afford it or you can't. There's people who can't even afford a base Fiesta or Sonic so what does that mean? Are those cars too expensive because everyone can't have one? Would you guys rather have Ford not build anything that competes or pushes the limits at all because you can't afford it? If they didn't compete and push the market everyone would be bitching about that too so they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. It's called work and making smart life decisions if there are things you wish to eventually own in your lifetime. I get really tired of the cost complaints, especially when it's been shown over and over that US inflation is a root cause and actual prices for the SVTs really isn't that out of hand for most trims. It's like people complain just to have something to complain about.

 

[jshen]

I don't see how anyone can complain about costs. The car is what it is and you can either afford it or you can't. There's people who can't even afford a base Fiesta or Sonic so what does that mean? Are those cars too expensive because everyone can't have one? Would you guys rather have Ford not build anything that competes or pushes the limits at all because you can't afford it? If they didn't compete and push the market everyone would be bitching about that too so they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. It's called work and making smart life decisions if there are things you wish to eventually own in your lifetime. I get really tired of the cost complaints, especially when it's been shown over and over that US inflation is a root cause and actual prices for the SVTs really isn't that out of hand for most trims. It's like people complain just to have something to complain about.

edited to be nice** as former moderator here I will just say the car manufacturers seems to have strayed from their original vision of providing performance cars to the general public. I asked a genuine- not argumentative question- and the response, if directed toward me, drew the ire...

 

[tmhutch]

If you look in the right places around this section you'll see news from a valid source mentioning or confirming the 5.2 FPC but also a new big block that is being built in the plant the Trinity was built.

I remember that post but I'm trying not to get too hopeful. I could see Ford using the SOHC, 2 valve variant for a 428CJ Mach 1 or something. Not that it wouldnt be very cool but we've been spoiled by the heavy breathing 4 valve monsters and it would be hard to go backwards.

 

[BMR Tech]

What kind of math are you using where 500 HP outperforms 600 HP? If by "performs" you are referring to metrics known only to you than ok. But in terms of straight line or otherwise the new GT350 engine will stomp the LS7. Is it fair to judge the engine based on the 3600 lb chassis it will be bolted to VS the Vette's ultra light 3200 pounds? I dont think so. If Ford really pulls this off it will be the most insane engine ever released by Detroit. Anybody can make power bolting on a blower. Naturally aspirated separates the men from the boys but it also means the men are usually going to their asses whooped. I would love to see Detroit get back to competing head to head naturally aspirated because blowers and turbos are going to get out of hand real quick. 1000 HP anyone?

Jumping off my soapbox of praises for this new engine, I agree, what the heck? Why is Ford messing around with these tiny engines and failing to use the 440ci capability of the new Boss block developed for the Raptor? Put 4 valve heads on a 428ci block and the rest of the worlds performance engines may as well throw in the towel. Game over.

Couldn't have worded that any better Todd.

 

[specizripn]

ooooooops

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

edited to be nice** as former moderator here I will just say the car manufacturers seems to have strayed from their original vision of providing performance cars to the general public. I asked a genuine- not argumentative question- and the response, if directed toward me, drew the ire...

Well my response was directed more at the masses who constantly complain about the prices. Your post just kind of spurred that response so I quoted you. It wasn't directed specifically at you per se.

 

[tmhutch]

So you're telling me that an engine that causes a lot of vibration isn't going to effect the NOISE VIBRATION AND HARSHNESS??? Really? I am not following your logic here but feel free to enlighten me. Yeah I used some bad wording, get over it... No need to start a flamewar
And yes I shouldn't have said stroke. Sue me... I just meant that a large displacement means there is quite a bit of reciprocating mass, which will pose a challenge for engineers...

You seem pretty upset. Sorry if you felt my response was offensive. I couldnt help clarifying after you told everyone they needed to go do some research before questioning your expertise. You have to admit that's kind of funny after you made a big deal out of balancing a FPC which is so well balanced inherently that it doesn't even need counter weights. Now, I understand you just used some "bad wording" as you put it and that's fine but I just want to make sure we have some technical clarity on the subject. I'm going to try to clarify again, please dont take offense. You said "balance as in NVH". First of all they are not related. If the Ford engineers are assembling performance engines so out of balance they are noisy or vibrating, we have bigger problems to deal with. Second, neither balance or NVH represent the engineering challenge presented by the FPC. NVH is just a general term to identify an almost infinite number of sources causing noise or vibration somewhere on a vehicle. The FPC suffers from harmonics. An almost imperceptible resonance caused by pistons traveling in the same direction at different speeds. The resulting crankshaft oscillation can damage engine components. Hope that helps.

 

[svt1111]

Thanks for clarifying that actually, lol. That's info I didn't know but was glad someone clarified it here. This sounds like a really neat NA Ford performance motor, and I can't wait for it. Huge step forward to competing on a global scale with our European friends. Can't wait to see the specs.

UOTE=tmhutch;14432047]You seem pretty upset. Sorry if you felt my response was offensive. I couldnt help clarifying after you told everyone they needed to go do some research before questioning your expertise. You have to admit that's kind of funny after you made a big deal out of balancing a FPC which is so well balanced inherently that it doesn't even need counter weights. Now, I understand you just used some "bad wording" as you put it and that's fine but I just want to make sure we have some technical clarity on the subject. I'm going to try to clarify again, please dont take offense. You said "balance as in NVH". First of all they are not related. If the Ford engineers are assembling performance engines so out of balance they are noisy or vibrating, we have bigger problems to deal with. Second, neither balance or NVH represent the engineering challenge presented by the FPC. NVH is just a general term to identify an almost infinite number of sources causing noise or vibration somewhere on a vehicle. The FPC suffers from harmonics. An almost imperceptible resonance caused by pistons traveling in the same direction at different speeds. The resulting crankshaft oscillation can damage engine components. Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]

 

[tmhutch]

Couldn't have worded that any better Todd.

Hey Kelly, thanks. Nice to see a familiar name.

Thanks for clarifying that actually, lol. That's info I didn't know but was glad someone clarified it here. This sounds like a really neat NA Ford performance motor, and I can't wait for it. Huge step forward to competing on a global scale with our European friends. Can't wait to see the specs.

Man, I'm right there with you. This engine is re-writing the rules. Too bad it's so small but that makes it that much cooler when it spanks the big dogs.

 

[Bonefish]

If it's 600 N/A it will be an awesome track rat. I could see myself getting this as a corner carver and keeping the GT500 as my dragstrip queen.

Exactly my thought...although I don't drag my shelby but, I'd like to race the GT350...if it's what they say it is.

 

[IcebourgGT500]

How about a 5.2 Flat Planed Supercharged motor with 750 HP and 650 TQ. I wonder if SVT could pull that off......only time will tell.

 

[Devious_Snake]

How about a 5.2 Flat Planed Supercharged motor with 750 HP and 650 TQ. I wonder if SVT could pull that off......only time will tell.

If those two fully camoed cars in denver are any indication....there might be a big boy model coming

 

[Chris!]

If those two fully camoed cars in denver are any indication....there might be a big boy model coming

Mmmmhmmmmm

 

[SlowSVT]

From what I've read the flat plane crank is sort of a mixed-bag. Better high-end power compared to a cross plane crank but at the expense of some low end and they don't sound as good. Next to my Terminator a Lambo sound like a souped-up STi

 

[NametoShowOther]

From what I've read the flat plane crank is sort of a mixed-bag. Better high-end power compared to a cross plane crank but at the expense of some low end and they don't sound as good. Next to my Terminator a Lambo sound like a souped-up STi

So an Italian v10 sound is not your cup of tea, how about a v8?

 

[SlowSVT]

So an Italian v10 sound is not your cup of tea, how about a v8?

Actually V10's don't sound as well as a V8 regardless. The Viper is a good example. A V8 seems to have the optimal number of pulses which makes that brawny muscular sound. A V12 screaming it's guts out is pretty wicked but not so much everywhere else.

All this is subjective of course but I think most people will agree.

 

[hognutz]

What kind of math are you using where 500 HP outperforms 600 HP? If by "performs" you are referring to metrics known only to you than ok. But in terms of straight line or otherwise the new GT350 engine will stomp the LS7. Is it fair to judge the engine based on the 3600 lb chassis it will be bolted to VS the Vette's ultra light 3200 pounds? I dont think so. If Ford really pulls this off it will be the most insane engine ever released by Detroit. Anybody can make power bolting on a blower. Naturally aspirated separates the men from the boys but it also means the men are usually going to their asses whooped. I would love to see Detroit get back to competing head to head naturally aspirated because blowers and turbos are going to get out of hand real quick. 1000 HP anyone?

Jumping off my soapbox of praises for this new engine, I agree, what the heck? Why is Ford messing around with these tiny engines and failing to use the 440ci capability of the new Boss block developed for the Raptor? Put 4 valve heads on a 428ci block and the rest of the worlds performance engines may as well throw in the towel. Game over.

I wonder if it has something to do with milage or emissions. or part cost.

one thing that I can always overlook not caring much about either is they have to meet those requirements. The LS7 is 2006 design. it was revolutionary for that time but GM has even backed away from devolping larger displacmet engines.

they also used very exotic materials that cost quite a bit. many of these newer motors are back to power forged rods and cheaper components.


I still think 600hp NA would rock. anybody who has driven a heads cam LS7 will not complain at all and this motor would be that stock. my buddies 540whp Z06 was just fast period. first car i have hit 160 by accident in.

 

[GTSpartan]

The LS7 is 2006 design. it was revolutionary for that time but GM has even backed away from devolping larger displacmet engines.

they also used very exotic materials that cost quite a bit. many of these newer motors are back to power forged rods and cheaper components.

It's much older than that. The LS7 is just a large displacement gen IV SBC, which dates back to the mid/late '90's. Quite old by today's standards.

Actually V10's don't sound as well as a V8 regardless. The Viper is a good example. A V8 seems to have the optimal number of pulses which makes that brawny muscular sound. A V12 screaming it's guts out is pretty wicked but not so much everywhere else.

All this is subjective of course but I think most people will agree.

The viper mil is not a good example for V10 sounds, as it is based on a highly modified 90 degree 360ci V8. It's odd sound is due to a 90/54 degree firing order. It was either that, or change cylinder banking add/or add a balance shaft.

 

[NametoShowOther]

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