i'm working on a simple fix like kb/ hbh for the frps.
when i get my batch done they'll be in the market section!
:beer:
when i get my batch done they'll be in the market section!
:beer:
Frps
- Thread starter 03yellow
- Start date
My car is doing the exact same thing but not all the time. It will do it like once every 2-3 weeks. Then it will be perfectly fine. Could mine be going bad or do they just go all at once? I smell no fuel what so ever. Its funny but mine didnt start doing it till after I added the disc.
ttt
im also having the same problem with my cobra. i tried disconecting the frps but my car still ran like crap. im getting the p0234 code of course and im also getting p1000 and a p0300. so im gonna replace the frps. would the bad one cause a p0300 which is random misfire or do i have to also replace the cam position sensor... thanks fo any help. im trying to get this all fixed cause im getting tuned next weekend.
Mine just went bad at an SCCA event. My car wouldnt even run. All it did was turn over. I pulled the old one out and ran the car for a while due to the fuel in the vacum lines. Just got done replacing it. Do you all recommend the KB fix?
That and removing the PRV valve in the fuel tank. Mine still broke with the KB disc. After removing the PRV no issues.
We blew a FRPS recently and as a result the car ran really poorly with lots of white smoke out the exhaust. Car was not driveable so the car was towed home. Found out that if you pull the electrical connector from the FRPS, the car becomes driveable albeit with greatly reduced power. New sensor cost $110 at the local Ford Dealer.
may try the KB disk if this happens again.
may try the KB disk if this happens again.
SLEEPERSTATUS
Banned
happend to me too get the kenne bell frps disc to prevent that from happening again
TORQJNKY
Active Member
If it's any consolation, Fore has the same type of restrictor orifice set up built into thier fuel rails. It's not a disk but permenantly contructed into the fuel rail where you mount the FRPS.
From Fore: "Our fuel rails utilize a built in orifice to dampen fuel pressure spikes that may damage the FRPS on modified vehicles. If you experience any problems with obtaining proper fuel rail pressure, remove the driver side fuel rails and relieve the orifice with an 1/8" drill. Ensure all burs are removed befor installing fuel rail to vehicle."
From Fore: "Our fuel rails utilize a built in orifice to dampen fuel pressure spikes that may damage the FRPS on modified vehicles. If you experience any problems with obtaining proper fuel rail pressure, remove the driver side fuel rails and relieve the orifice with an 1/8" drill. Ensure all burs are removed befor installing fuel rail to vehicle."
so can you just remove the sensor, put the new one on and just good to go or is there anything else involved other than oil and filter change?
It's as simple as taking the old one off and putting the new one on..only takes a few minutes at most to change out.
^ This guy actually made a good point but it seems everybody failed to realize it. Has everybody heard of hydro lock? What causes that?
Liquids do not compress. Therefore this is not going to cause a slower reaction time to the sensor. There is nothing to slow it down. The gas is not going to compress and relieve pressure before it gets to the sensor because gas doesn't compress. Does that make sense to anybody else? So if the pressure spikes to 70 or whatever psi the sensor is still going to see it immediately. I really don't see how this restrictor or orfice is going to help that in any way.
On another note mine just failed without blowing gas through it. I guess it failed on the electrical side. So just because it doesn't blow fuel doesn't mean its ok.
I let my buddy drive the cobra last saturday, i had been drinking. He reved up at some people and bounced off the limiter blowing my FRPS. I had a kenne bell disk at the time too. Waste of 30 bucks i guess.
I blew mine and Local ford quoted me $650 too... then i found this post. i walked over to the parts counter, bought one for $98, walked out in the parking lot and installed it right in front of the tech, took literally 90 seconds... Car started right up... I was like $650 huh?!? i dont think my local dealer likes me anymore... haha.
Id recommend definitely changing oil if u blow this, and plugs too... Mine was dumping so much fuel it was unbelievable... it was pouring from everywhere the more i tried to start the car... out of the vacuum lines, out of my intake.... so i know there will be some gas in my oil and im sure my plugs got good and soaked during the fuel dump, so im changing those today too... got the KB disk too... why not... its going to make such a small change to the reaction time u will never feel it.
Wish i found this post before i tried to start the car 500 times and took it to Ford! haha... thanks for all the input.
Id recommend definitely changing oil if u blow this, and plugs too... Mine was dumping so much fuel it was unbelievable... it was pouring from everywhere the more i tried to start the car... out of the vacuum lines, out of my intake.... so i know there will be some gas in my oil and im sure my plugs got good and soaked during the fuel dump, so im changing those today too... got the KB disk too... why not... its going to make such a small change to the reaction time u will never feel it.
Wish i found this post before i tried to start the car 500 times and took it to Ford! haha... thanks for all the input.
Add mine to the list as of today. No fuel coming out of the vacume line either. Threw a code P0190 and P0193 for FRPS.
Here is my take on the subject.
First, I want to explain the reasoning for the PPRV (for those that don't know). The PPRV is used for 2 purposes: act as a check valve to maintain pressure in the fuel lines for quicker starts, and to relieve excessive pressure which can blow the FRPS. PPRVs are designed to relieve the excessive pressure at 67psi +/-7psi. This means that some cars will bleed pressure at 60psi, others at 74psi. That's why some cars can blow a FRPS on a stock car.
Now, the main reason the PPRV is removed is because it causes a situational loss of fuel pressure. The computer tries to maintain a delta pressure of 39psi at all times (meaning, at idle when there is vacuum, there will be less than 39psi rail pressure...and when at boost, rail pressure will be 39psi + what ever amount of boost you are experiencing at a given moment). Problem arises when a car has been modified requiring extra fuel due to extra air (such as when installing a twin screw). Problem is there is a lot more fuel being pushed through the line to compensate for the added air. When you shut the throttle body (and therefore the injectors), the fuel pumps run for a time after the injectors are closed. This causes a buildup of pressure in the line and rails. The PPRV then bleeds off pressure, but only to ~67psi. Since the computer is trying to maintain a delta of 39psi, it has no option but to turn off the pumps to try and reduce pressure. Problem is when you go to hit the gas, that pressure is not enough to keep the car running, and therefore drops to 0psi. The computer realizes whats going on and turns the pumps back on. However, at this point, the driver has already felt a nasty hesitation.
What does this have to do with it? To get rid of the holding-excessive-pressure issue, people remove the PPRV. GREAT! But you just introduced another problem. Now, when the injectors are shut, the fuel pressure has nowhere to go and pressures can exceed 67psi. This is what can cause a FRPS to go out.
So how do we fix it? Ideally, we could replace the PPRV with a blow-off type unit that only bleeds excessive pressure and not hold pressure in the lines. Since an in-tank solution doesn't exist (at least, I haven't found one yet) we need to reintroduce a way to bleed off excessive pressure in the lines so that they do not go over 67psi. Anyone that has installed a complete Aeromotive return-style fuel system had the answer staring at them in the face: the fuel pressure regulator.
For those not familiar with the fuel pressure regulator, it maintains a preset delta pressure. The screw on top allows a user to adjust the pressure within a certain range (the above FPR can do a base, or delta, pressure of 30-70psi). The difference, it does it mechanically. With a vacuum source attached, it will reduce the pressure with vacuum present, and increase delta pressure when boost is present.
How will that help me with a returnless fuel system? The capability we are looking at here is the ability to bleed pressure at a given amount (in our case, anything over 67psi). With the FPR set at, or near, 67psi, the FPR will only open when fuel pressure is above that amount. If the vacuum source is not attached, the FPR will only open and close at that set amount.
So where would it go? Since the FPR will not need a vacuum source, it does not need to be installed near the engine and need for a long return line back to the tank. Instead, the FPR can be located near the tank (say, next to the fuel filter), and a return line installed on top of the hat. In this way, the PPRV is removed so no excessive pressure stays in the line during a WOT run, and the FPR will bleed off excessive pressure that may blow the FRPS.
And that's my take. :beer:
First, I want to explain the reasoning for the PPRV (for those that don't know). The PPRV is used for 2 purposes: act as a check valve to maintain pressure in the fuel lines for quicker starts, and to relieve excessive pressure which can blow the FRPS. PPRVs are designed to relieve the excessive pressure at 67psi +/-7psi. This means that some cars will bleed pressure at 60psi, others at 74psi. That's why some cars can blow a FRPS on a stock car.
Now, the main reason the PPRV is removed is because it causes a situational loss of fuel pressure. The computer tries to maintain a delta pressure of 39psi at all times (meaning, at idle when there is vacuum, there will be less than 39psi rail pressure...and when at boost, rail pressure will be 39psi + what ever amount of boost you are experiencing at a given moment). Problem arises when a car has been modified requiring extra fuel due to extra air (such as when installing a twin screw). Problem is there is a lot more fuel being pushed through the line to compensate for the added air. When you shut the throttle body (and therefore the injectors), the fuel pumps run for a time after the injectors are closed. This causes a buildup of pressure in the line and rails. The PPRV then bleeds off pressure, but only to ~67psi. Since the computer is trying to maintain a delta of 39psi, it has no option but to turn off the pumps to try and reduce pressure. Problem is when you go to hit the gas, that pressure is not enough to keep the car running, and therefore drops to 0psi. The computer realizes whats going on and turns the pumps back on. However, at this point, the driver has already felt a nasty hesitation.
What does this have to do with it? To get rid of the holding-excessive-pressure issue, people remove the PPRV. GREAT! But you just introduced another problem. Now, when the injectors are shut, the fuel pressure has nowhere to go and pressures can exceed 67psi. This is what can cause a FRPS to go out.
So how do we fix it? Ideally, we could replace the PPRV with a blow-off type unit that only bleeds excessive pressure and not hold pressure in the lines. Since an in-tank solution doesn't exist (at least, I haven't found one yet) we need to reintroduce a way to bleed off excessive pressure in the lines so that they do not go over 67psi. Anyone that has installed a complete Aeromotive return-style fuel system had the answer staring at them in the face: the fuel pressure regulator.
For those not familiar with the fuel pressure regulator, it maintains a preset delta pressure. The screw on top allows a user to adjust the pressure within a certain range (the above FPR can do a base, or delta, pressure of 30-70psi). The difference, it does it mechanically. With a vacuum source attached, it will reduce the pressure with vacuum present, and increase delta pressure when boost is present.
How will that help me with a returnless fuel system? The capability we are looking at here is the ability to bleed pressure at a given amount (in our case, anything over 67psi). With the FPR set at, or near, 67psi, the FPR will only open when fuel pressure is above that amount. If the vacuum source is not attached, the FPR will only open and close at that set amount.
So where would it go? Since the FPR will not need a vacuum source, it does not need to be installed near the engine and need for a long return line back to the tank. Instead, the FPR can be located near the tank (say, next to the fuel filter), and a return line installed on top of the hat. In this way, the PPRV is removed so no excessive pressure stays in the line during a WOT run, and the FPR will bleed off excessive pressure that may blow the FRPS.
And that's my take. :beer:
I've got one better. I managed to modify a PPRV so that the check valve is removed while at the same time retain the blow off function.
This means several things:
- No PPRV delete kit to buy. Only a couple clamps needed to reinstall the factory lines to the PPRV.
- No worry about typical PPRV kit lines kinking or popping off the fuel pumps. 3/8" 30R10 line has a hard time making the bends the stock lines do, and the fuel pump nipples are really closer to 5/16".
- No worry about the factory lines to blow. Since the PPRV blow off function is retained, the stock lines wont blow due to excessive pressure.
- No worry about blowing the FRPS. If you car wasn't blowing the FRPS before the mod, it wont do it after.
- No restriction. In a stock fuel setup, the PPRV was definitely the major restriction. As modded, the restriction would probably be the fuel filter.
I still need to do some tests and evaluations, but I am very optimistic about this one.
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