GT500 oil pan compatibility.....
- Thread starter SVT_Troy
- Start date
Troy
Not too bad, there are several options here. You can notch the K-member which requires a MIG welder at your house. Or notch the pan which requires you to go somewhere and get it TIG welded.
Looking at your pics I think I'm leaning toward notching the K-member and leaving the pan "as is" but that could change if we find out the pan would be a better candidate. Is the only place it needs clearance in along the trailing edge of the K-member? There was a couple of points along the sides that look kinda close. How many places total do you see as needing clearance? Factor in that you will need a minimum of a 5/8" clearance with the pan to prevent it from colliding with the K-member when the engine torques on it's mounts. It looks like you have the OEM mounts. Urethane engine mounts will restrain the engine better.
Do you agree that notching the K-member is the way you want to go? The pan can be notched just as easily. Looking at what's required I don't think the K-member will be compromised in anyway.
After you made your clearance cuts that block has got to go back in there to confirm there are no interference issues before you start make the pattern(s) needed to make the plug(s).
This would be a 4 hour job for me looking at what's involved give or take.
Tools needed:
4 1/2" electric right angle grinder w/ both cut-off and grinding discs
A bench grinder comes in handy
Grainding stones for use on an electric drill
A Sharpie pen
Weld Thru Primer (Summit carries it) 3M Weld-Thru Coating II 05917
.125" thk 4130 chromoly steel 4130 STEEL SHEETS from Aircraft Spruce
That will get you started. I can walk you through the process
Not too bad, there are several options here. You can notch the K-member which requires a MIG welder at your house. Or notch the pan which requires you to go somewhere and get it TIG welded.
Looking at your pics I think I'm leaning toward notching the K-member and leaving the pan "as is" but that could change if we find out the pan would be a better candidate. Is the only place it needs clearance in along the trailing edge of the K-member? There was a couple of points along the sides that look kinda close. How many places total do you see as needing clearance? Factor in that you will need a minimum of a 5/8" clearance with the pan to prevent it from colliding with the K-member when the engine torques on it's mounts. It looks like you have the OEM mounts. Urethane engine mounts will restrain the engine better.
Do you agree that notching the K-member is the way you want to go? The pan can be notched just as easily. Looking at what's required I don't think the K-member will be compromised in anyway.
After you made your clearance cuts that block has got to go back in there to confirm there are no interference issues before you start make the pattern(s) needed to make the plug(s).
This would be a 4 hour job for me looking at what's involved give or take.
Tools needed:
4 1/2" electric right angle grinder w/ both cut-off and grinding discs
A bench grinder comes in handy
Grainding stones for use on an electric drill
A Sharpie pen
Weld Thru Primer (Summit carries it) 3M Weld-Thru Coating II 05917
.125" thk 4130 chromoly steel 4130 STEEL SHEETS from Aircraft Spruce
That will get you started. I can walk you through the process
Russ the trailing edge of the K-member (I marked it with the yellow calk) is indeed the only area that contacts the pan. Everything else looks like it would clear. Also remember that the motor was not sitting all the way down and was slightly tilted as you can tell from the pics showing the gap difference in motor mounts. Either way needs to still come down about an inch.
So your suggesting that I just cut the area needed to clear from the K-member and grind it smooth and then weld the open area back up?
I have zero welding skills but do know a guy so we may be able to make this work.
Once again, i appreciate all of you guys help!
So your suggesting that I just cut the area needed to clear from the K-member and grind it smooth and then weld the open area back up?
I have zero welding skills but do know a guy so we may be able to make this work.
Once again, i appreciate all of you guys help!
Cool
That makes things simpler
The first thing you need do is mark your cut line. With the engine sill resting on the K-member try to bore sight down the length if the beam on the K-member the best you can projecting a straight line down from where you think you need clearance and mark it with a pencil. The upper line will be more critical then the lower line because that's the first place it will interfere.
. Now mark the outboard vertical lines marking the end of the notch. When marking the lines for the notch locations it better to make it smaller than it needs to be and you can always grind more clearance later on if need be. Check it over a few times and make sure you happy with the location of your marks. Now remove the bock from the K-member.
Since this is going to be a long straight cut the line laid down by a strip if masking take will be a lot straighter then using a Sharpie. Take a strip of masking take and position it at your pencil mark making sure it's square with the K-member. When you are done it should look something like this:
Sorry for the crappy photo and the tape I used is way wider than it's needs to be but I think you get the point. Now you have a nice straight contrasting cut line to follow.
With a right angle grinder with a cut-off disc, safety glasses and maybe some hearing protection cut at the far end if the K-member. Once the cut has passed thru the metal it will cut pretty straight and you draw it across the line. Take you time, if the cut goes off the like take the disc out of the cut and start a new one. Don't worry about screwing something up it can easily be repaired by the welder. The vertical end cuts will be much shorter where the 4 1/2" disc may not be able to cut thru unless you overshoot the 2 horizontal cuts.
Now you should have a nice rectangular hole cut in the back end of the K-member
Put the block and pan back on the K-member and see if you have enough clearance (make sure the block is fully seated in the mounts). Mark it where it needs more clearance, remove the block and grind the additional clearance as needed. Reinstall the block to confirm everything clears.
Remove the bock for the last time. Now your ready to make the pattern.
Take a piece of cardboard and lay it in the cutout. Fold the ends so they conform to the end of the notch which will result in a triangle shaped ears at both ends of the pattern. Take a pencil and use the cutout to trace va line on the cardboard whitch you will cut with scissors. Place the cut pattern back on the cutout to confirm the accuracy of the pattern, trim as needed.
You now have a pattern that can be transferred onto the 1/8" thk 4130 using a Sharpie
I figure you don't have the steel in hand so we will leave it at that for now. Get the Weld Thru Primer which will be sprayed on the inside of the plug which holds-up very well from welding and will minimize corrosion (any other paint will just burn off and you can weld directly over this stuff but I prefer beae metal.
Once the pattern is made and fitted to the hole this will take a welder all of 10 minutes to finish. After that you grind the weld smooth, hit it was some silver paint you have the first Terminator that will accept a Trinity pan (I will be the 2nd).
Take more pics when you do your marking and post them just to have more eyes on what going on we may spot something.
That makes things simpler
The first thing you need do is mark your cut line. With the engine sill resting on the K-member try to bore sight down the length if the beam on the K-member the best you can projecting a straight line down from where you think you need clearance and mark it with a pencil. The upper line will be more critical then the lower line because that's the first place it will interfere.
. Now mark the outboard vertical lines marking the end of the notch. When marking the lines for the notch locations it better to make it smaller than it needs to be and you can always grind more clearance later on if need be. Check it over a few times and make sure you happy with the location of your marks. Now remove the bock from the K-member.
Since this is going to be a long straight cut the line laid down by a strip if masking take will be a lot straighter then using a Sharpie. Take a strip of masking take and position it at your pencil mark making sure it's square with the K-member. When you are done it should look something like this:
Sorry for the crappy photo and the tape I used is way wider than it's needs to be but I think you get the point. Now you have a nice straight contrasting cut line to follow.
With a right angle grinder with a cut-off disc, safety glasses and maybe some hearing protection cut at the far end if the K-member. Once the cut has passed thru the metal it will cut pretty straight and you draw it across the line. Take you time, if the cut goes off the like take the disc out of the cut and start a new one. Don't worry about screwing something up it can easily be repaired by the welder. The vertical end cuts will be much shorter where the 4 1/2" disc may not be able to cut thru unless you overshoot the 2 horizontal cuts.
Now you should have a nice rectangular hole cut in the back end of the K-member
Put the block and pan back on the K-member and see if you have enough clearance (make sure the block is fully seated in the mounts). Mark it where it needs more clearance, remove the block and grind the additional clearance as needed. Reinstall the block to confirm everything clears.
Remove the bock for the last time. Now your ready to make the pattern.
Take a piece of cardboard and lay it in the cutout. Fold the ends so they conform to the end of the notch which will result in a triangle shaped ears at both ends of the pattern. Take a pencil and use the cutout to trace va line on the cardboard whitch you will cut with scissors. Place the cut pattern back on the cutout to confirm the accuracy of the pattern, trim as needed.
You now have a pattern that can be transferred onto the 1/8" thk 4130 using a Sharpie
I figure you don't have the steel in hand so we will leave it at that for now. Get the Weld Thru Primer which will be sprayed on the inside of the plug which holds-up very well from welding and will minimize corrosion (any other paint will just burn off and you can weld directly over this stuff but I prefer beae metal.
Once the pattern is made and fitted to the hole this will take a welder all of 10 minutes to finish. After that you grind the weld smooth, hit it was some silver paint you have the first Terminator that will accept a Trinity pan (I will be the 2nd).
Take more pics when you do your marking and post them just to have more eyes on what going on we may spot something.
Troy
Order the steel from Aircraft Spruce p/n: 03-553300 $9.95 for a 12" x 6" x .125 thk sheet and the Weld Thru Primer http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-5917/ first thing in the morning that way you will have it for the weekend.
Do you have the tools I listed? The right angle 4 1/2" grinder with the cut-off and grinding discs are the "biggies". If not, Harbor Freight has them for $20
Order the steel from Aircraft Spruce p/n: 03-553300 $9.95 for a 12" x 6" x .125 thk sheet and the Weld Thru Primer http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-5917/ first thing in the morning that way you will have it for the weekend.
Do you have the tools I listed? The right angle 4 1/2" grinder with the cut-off and grinding discs are the "biggies". If not, Harbor Freight has them for $20
Last edited:
Great Point ..
The clearance between the 5.8 crank and the 4.6 will be significantly different
OP why not just get an aftermarket K member at this point? :shrug: You've already do the hard part of the job with the motor lifting. You'll save weight, obtain the needed clearence, and there's options to keep your OE suspension if you don't want to get into coilovers etc.
Troy
I'm not sure what fabrication resources you have available which I may be overextending here imposing big logistical problems for you. If that's the case you have another option.
After viewing your photos and pulling out my k-member I started looking at this in detail. It may make more sense to chamfer the oil pan. I won't know for sure as all I have to go on are your pics you posted.
Hopefully I should have my pan by Friday. I'll get the Romeo block with the Trinity pan on the K-member hot off the UPS truck and will be able to make a much better assessment on the best approach which I think will be real simple mod but I don't know until I see it.
Not sure when your engine install needs to be but if you can push thit out a week or two you may get much better results. If the pan is the better candidate I will know rather quickly. If the K-member is to go under the knife we will stick to plan "A" and call yourself a MIG welder. For plan "B" if I need to modify my pan I can get yours done in parallel all you will need to do is ship it to me.
Again that is just an option which might make your life a lot easier and I don't mind helping a fellow SVTP member develop a worthy mod such as this :rockon:
BTW: Option plan "D" is I will buy your pan off you if you want to take an easier route and recoup your money which is understandable if this delays things too much. Just let me know before I call Steve.
I'm not sure what fabrication resources you have available which I may be overextending here imposing big logistical problems for you. If that's the case you have another option.
After viewing your photos and pulling out my k-member I started looking at this in detail. It may make more sense to chamfer the oil pan. I won't know for sure as all I have to go on are your pics you posted.
Hopefully I should have my pan by Friday. I'll get the Romeo block with the Trinity pan on the K-member hot off the UPS truck and will be able to make a much better assessment on the best approach which I think will be real simple mod but I don't know until I see it.
Not sure when your engine install needs to be but if you can push thit out a week or two you may get much better results. If the pan is the better candidate I will know rather quickly. If the K-member is to go under the knife we will stick to plan "A" and call yourself a MIG welder. For plan "B" if I need to modify my pan I can get yours done in parallel all you will need to do is ship it to me.
Again that is just an option which might make your life a lot easier and I don't mind helping a fellow SVTP member develop a worthy mod such as this :rockon:
BTW: Option plan "D" is I will buy your pan off you if you want to take an easier route and recoup your money which is understandable if this delays things too much. Just let me know before I call Steve.
The stock K-member will actually protect the engine and steering assembly better then most any aftermarket K-member and are pretty strong. In a lowered street car this is the only K-member I would run.
I wanted to run an Aftermarkey K-member but do not want coil overs as have read about too many cases of creaks and noises. Not to mention the shock towers was not destined to be used with coil overs. It is primarily a street car but I do want to take it to auto X events and the occasional trip to the road course.
With that said, I've read that MM and Griggs K members are the only k member designed to meet those requirements. If I ever find a crazy package deal down the line I may try it out but I will be ready to swap back in my stock front suspension.
Russ that sounds like a good plan. I don't have the resources readily aviable but I'm sure I could figure out something. I was going to cut up the k member this weekend and just find someone local to weld it up to once the clearance was achieved. I only have a couple weeks at home before I leave for a month so my motor is not going anywhere fast. I was just trying to get as much work done that I could while on my holiday leave. If it is a better option I can send you my pan before I leave and I'm sure you can do something with it over a months time.
Just let me know.
I really appreciate it!
Steve@Tasca
Active Member
Don't forget, he also said that even with the added clearance it's likely still better than the stock 4.6 windage tray.
-Steve
Troy
That sounds like a plan. Based on what I've seen I think beveling the pan will be less intrusive then notching the K-member but I won't know for sure until I see it for myself. If I determine the best direction to take is to clearance the pan I'll let you know what I plan to do and you can decide if want me to throw you pan into the mix and they will both get modified at the same time. I prefer to have your pan along with mine before I make the plug and trim the sump this weekend or early next week so I can do them in parallel. Should be able to get it to the TIG welders the following Weekend.
I'll PM you the shipping address.
sounds awesome! I'll be sending you my pan in the morning :rockon:
Chassis ski's are available for drag cars that will protect the bottom end much better than the stamped POS OE K-member any day if that's your only concern.
Do some more research I have a $400 range AJE that kept all the OE suspension.
I'll look into it but I thought I've read about them as well. Their nice pieces but just not designed to handle road track abuse like the MM & griggs pieces. I'm not saying that they will break, just not as strong. Maybe I'm over thinking it because I was doing research at corner carvers and I know those guys really run there cars hard, harder than I ever will......
I just don't want to go coil overs...
What's the reason for that? I was never interested in but recently its perked my interest as I'm hoping to dial in weight transfer and gain some traction. Not just track but even in general on the street.
From experience, coilover ride SUCKS. Many owners here have gone to them then gone back, a search will net said info. 1.51 60' here on IRS, QA1 rears, 70/30 fronts launching an eaton @ only 3k rpm. A 1.4 is in it without coilovers!
OK didn't know that. I had chatted to another member here and he said coil overs where an impressive improvement over right quality. I guess I need to read up on it and get more info.
How did ride quality suck for you personally? to bouncy and soft? or it didn't corner like how you wanted?
The only people I have ever heard complain about coil overs are drag race guys. I honestly think it has something to do with the valving in those specific style struts.
I recently switched to MM coil overs and absolutely love the ride. I can't believe how much it improved. The car is flat out smoother.
Users who are viewing this thread
