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More Spy Shots - They Say it's a 2019 GT350?

Discussion in '2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by SID297, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    By 2021 if Ford badges the Mustang as the GT500 it will likely be quite a different animal than any GT500 that came before it. They will likely source the engine and driveline from their existing inventory and by then who knows what's in store for the car. The appeal of the GT500 comes with a big stout V8 with a PD blower and a beefy stick transmission that can be modded by anyone who can turn a wrench. I don't see Ford investing all that money into a car with a very low production volume in order to compete with Chrysler or GM who have large displacement engine platforms already in production. The Coyote engine design is just not stout enough to handle the HP needed to compete. If they attempt to augment the engine output with a hybrid setup will result in an overly complicated and heavy car. Ford should have hung in there with the mod motor just before the Trinity engine from a power and durability perspective has been on a downward side ever since. Hold onto you 2003-2012 SVT Mustangs you will never see a better platform from a hot rodder's perspective coming out of Dearborn again.

    If what I say is not true Ford would already have the GT500 in production. SVT has boxed themselves in a corner putting all their eggs in the Coyote basket. Right now the best place Ford can source a suitable engine is in a wrecking yard!
     
  2. biminiLX

    biminiLX never stock Established Member

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    I'm with you on disappointment with Ford/SVT on dropping the big power Mustang from the line up, but it's not disappointment with the Coyote platform.
    The DOHC VCT Coyote, while down on displacement, can hang with the LS/Hemi under boost.
    If the Coyote/TVS2650 comes as rumored, especially with a stout auto, it'll hang with the ZL1 and Hellcat.
    We can agree to disagree, but I just don't see the Coyote as the problem.
    -J
     
  3. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. If the limitation of the Coyote were not an issue it would be in the engine bay of a 2018 GT500 sitting on the showroom floor as I type this. It's obvious Ford doesn't feel the Coyote engine is a suitable engine for high output needed in a GT500 nor is the FPC Voodoo engine. My understanding is Ford went thru several major revisions to the block to address structural issues yet at this time it appears they are still not comfortable having it go head-to-head with GM and Chrysler. At this time Ford has no engine platform available to compete with their competitors and it would be embarrassing if they tried with what they have now. The limits imposed by the 100mm bore spacing they've been stuck with since 1992 is what's holding them back. I just don't see them coming out with an entirely new performance V8 platform for such a low volume engine. The Coyote is fine in the GT Mustang and makes impressive power NA but not in a GT500. Their best hope is to resurrect the 5.4 unless they retool for a completely new engine which is not likely. My hope is I am 100% wrong on this assessment but right now my eyes, ears and intuition tells me otherwise. Maybe Ford will pull a rabbit out of a hat in 2019 and surprise us all but I've been holding my breath for the last 3 years. That Demon will be a hard act to follow the thing can pick the front wheels off the ground that's some crazy chit right there!
     
  4. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Well-Known Member Established Member

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    ^^ What is the extent of your understanding of the Coyote?

    You might be the only person ive ever heard say that the platform is limited and not suitable for high HP.
     
  5. Famine

    Famine Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Exactly. What is high horsepower then? The newer coyote is capable of 800whp pretty safely.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using the svtperformance.com mobile app
     
  6. Eatonualive281

    Eatonualive281 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Yes, but will it do it reliably and meet all of Fords durability testing? I don't think it would. But who knows. I personally think that they need a bigger displacement V8. More power, less boost, more reliable for you average consumer. In other words, I highly doubt ford would give this new car a small 5.0 or even a 5.2 boosted to the limits of what is semi reliable. You need a larger motor that's barely breathing with room to grow. At this level of modern factory HP and performance...there really isn't any replacement for displacement.
     
  7. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    If it was it would already be in the GT500
     
  8. Famine

    Famine Well-Known Member Established Member

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    If you say so.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using the svtperformance.com mobile app
     
  9. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Yeah.. No.

    You do realize Ford already produces a "tiny" 4 liter straight 6 that makes almost 500 hp in turbo form right?

    This same car can also be had with a --wait for it--supercharged 5.0 Coyote.

    http://jalopnik.com/the-462-horsepower-ford-falcon-xr8-sprint-is-a-loud-far-1758060303

    See above. You guys need to get with the times.
     
  10. Eatonualive281

    Eatonualive281 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Sooo whats the point??

    465 is a far cry from a reliable 750
     
  11. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    At 462 hp that equates to 1.9 hp per cube which is not hard to achieve with a turbo and doesn't suffer from the parasitic drag and added stress of a supercharger.

    At the same hp level as you noted above in the Coyote with a turbo equates to 580 hp. Add the drag of the supercharger and that figure goes even lower. Ford has a long way to go to be competitive. 5 liters ain't gunna do it!
     
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  12. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Lol.

    10/4. Go back to sleep boys.
     
  13. biminiLX

    biminiLX never stock Established Member

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    High rpm and a small bore are best for pump gas detonation. My brother and I were just discussing this as we were setting up his 900+rwhp 100% stock longblock single turbo Terminator Fox.
    So I understand that small boosted motors can make the power, and IF Ford can deliver a strong enough Coyote block for 15psi from a TVS2650 I think we will all be happy.
    Yes displacement is always easier to make power, but with current regulations, I think the Coyote will be workable.
    I drive a Hellcat and built Trinity, so I love torque but I wouldn't be disappointed with a boosted Coyote.
    -J
     
  14. 13COBRA

    13COBRA Resident Ford Dealer Premium Member Established Member

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    So, how has a GTR remained competitive over the years with a 3.8L V6?
     
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  15. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    We could add Porsche to the mix as long as we are at it for comparative purposes but in the end it's Ford vs. Chrysler and so far Ford is losing. I don't think we are going to see a 800+ hp Coyote coming out of Dearborn.
     
  16. 13COBRA

    13COBRA Resident Ford Dealer Premium Member Established Member

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    We don't have to see an 800hp 5.0L for it to be successful.
     
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  17. tt335ci03cobra

    tt335ci03cobra Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Ford has the capability to put a reliable turbo 5.0 with 8psi out there, but it would add a dramatic parts and technical costs, and engineering repayment to the engine on each car. Probably in the order of $2-3,000 per engine.

    A supercharger setup would make the same power at about 12psi and cost much less per engine, but then it would be much less reliable.

    The corner ford is "stuck" in is just deciding what to pull the trigger on. Whatever they make will sell out and recoup cost. It's a matter of how this car turns out that will determine how the next one sells. Ford isn't going to cannibalize its reputation. I think they are going to surprise us all with something special.

    The 5.8 was a wild card that was well received regardless of its inherent flaws. I'm gut hunch expecting something out of left field like a 5.5L twin turbo v8 based on a destroked tall deck rapter v8 block with advanced heads, vvt-ti, and split injectors. No reason or proof as to why, just a gut hunch. As a 19/20. But again just a hunch, no proof or reasonable reason to believe so except previous ford products and their requisite timing of release/halo status, etc.
     
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  18. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    An a personal level I agree. 800 hp is a bit excessive for me I prefer road race car over a dragster which is what Chrysler built. Seeing that the Mustang is a lighter car it can make due with less hp and could beat the demon in the 1/4 with less power.

    From a marketing perspective 2nd place (or even 3rd if you factor in GM) is a disaster. For some taking top position on the HP heap is all that matters. I was debating this topic stating I didn't think it was a big deal but got beat'N down so bad I capitulated. What was stated was: What engine do you remember more a 426 hemi or an L88? Everyone else will be relegated to the status of: "also ran" which is equivalent to a pat on the back. We will be remembering the Demon for decades to come.

    I hope Ford is reading this thread and gets pissed-off.and say "I'll show you!" ........... start by adding more cubes!
     
  19. 13COBRA

    13COBRA Resident Ford Dealer Premium Member Established Member

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    Ford won't produce a 2nd or 3rd place. They will create a car that fits it's own class and dominates.

    I imagine a car that will run mid to upper 10's, have 700hp and be able to drive on the twisties would be phenomenal (look at the ZL1 1LE) and a win in Ford's book.
     
  20. Fourcam380

    Fourcam380 Active Member Established Member

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    No one's chasing the Demon. That would be an impossible act to follow without creating another one trick pony.

    And ironically these days it's all about the replacement for displacement. Chevy and FCA are larger displacement stalwarts, Ford really hasn't ever been at least in the past, at least since the early 70s gas crisis. 302 vs 350 is what many of us remember from our youths.

    Presently every other large volume manu is dropping CI and adding boost. I realize that the Boss engines were never meant for Mustangs, but it is nice to see an oem investing in larger displacement NA engines again.
     

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