NFL Off-season thread

[Coiled03]

I'll say it again, if you take the side of the owners, then please refrain from talking about the impending lockout, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Dude, **** off with this shit. You come in here acting like you've got some "inside knowledge" to the whole process, or know something the rest of us don't. Your OPINIONS are no more valid than anyone else's, so anyone who wants to take the owners' side or who has a different opinion is just as much in the right as you are.

Fact is, you think the owners are greedy, we get it. People who side with the owners think the owners put in the work to get to where they are, and the players are already overpaid for what they do, and need a reality check. It's called a difference of opinion....it doesn't make you right, or anyone else right. So don't tell people who feel differently they don't know what they're talking about, because you don't either.

 

[svtsmo]

Dude, **** off with this shit. You come in here acting like you've got some "inside knowledge" to the whole process, or know something the rest of us don't. Your OPINIONS are no more valid than anyone else's, so anyone who wants to take the owners' side or who has a different opinion is just as much in the right as you are.

Fact is, you think the owners are greedy, we get it. People who side with the owners think the owners put in the work to get to where they are, and the players are already overpaid for what they do, and need a reality check. It's called a difference of opinion....it doesn't make you right, or anyone else right. So don't tell people who feel differently they don't know what they're talking about, because you don't either.

do i have inside knowledge? no of course not, the owners won't open their books to us :lol1:

i've only posted the facts. and the fact is, if you side with the owners, you dont know the facts about the situation. you can whine all you want, but the players didn't ask to be put in this situation. they're not asking for anything more than than what was already agreed upon when the owners voted 30-2 to extend the current CBA until 2012. the players didnt tell the owners to back out of it twos years later with a 30-0 vote.

try looking into and reading up on the situation instead of spouting opinions about what you think is going on. you can have as many opinions as you want, but guess what? i've posted the facts about the situation, all of which completely dismiss any of your opinions.

 

[BlownAway05]

I don't know every fact of the CBA situation (svtsmo, please lay them out so we can all have a clear picture of what's going on).

My initial thought though, is that the players are making damn good money for being "employees" of the company they work for. When you make multi-hundred million dollar investments to own something, it seems like you deserve to reap what you sow. In my opinion, the players are as invested in their job as any other college graduate is in theirs, they didn't have to make a hundreds of million dollar investment to try and make money. Hell, most of these guys got free rides in school, I had to pay for that sh*t myself and I don't make anything near what they do, I seem to get by just fine.

If the players want to get in on the bigger piece of the pie, then they should do what the owners did, put up the loot to buy a franchise.

Again, this is just my initial reaction. When svtsmo puts up all the facts, then I might rationalize that this intial reaction might be pure stupidity.

 

[svtsmo]

I don't know every fact of the CBA situation (svtsmo, please lay them out so we can all have a clear picture of what's going on).

My initial thought though, is that the players are making damn good money for being "employees" of the company they work for. When you make multi-hundred million dollar investments to own something, it seems like you deserve to reap what you sow. In my opinion, the players are as invested in their job as any other college graduate is in theirs, they didn't have to make a hundreds of million dollar investment to try and make money. Hell, most of these guys got free rides in school, I had to pay for that sh*t myself and I don't make anything near what they do, I seem to get by just fine.

If the players want to get in on the bigger piece of the pie, then they should do what the owners did, put up the loot to buy a franchise.

Again, this is just my initial reaction. When svtsmo puts up all the facts, then I might rationalize that this intial reaction might be pure stupidity.

unfortunetly the NFL isn't your run of the mill business entity that can simple replace its staff with new people. without these specific players, there is no no NFL, there are no ratings, there are no tv deals, there is no giant revenue pile to be divided up, quite frankly, there are no owners without them. the NFL owners tried replacement players once before, and it didn't work out.

anyways, onto the facts:

the situation we are facing is the owners locking out the players because the owners want a new CBA. it is not a strike by the players.

the current CBA was extended in 06 for another 6 years (2012) by the owners in a 30-2 vote.

in 08 the owners suddenly changed their stance and voted 32-0 to back out of the current CBA citing that they are losing revenue and that if something didnt change the NFL would be in financial turmoil.

the owners, despite multiple requests, refuse to open their financial books to prove this. this claim comes during a season in which the NFL had its highest ratings it has ever seen (ratings=$$)

the claim that owners are losing money could be refuted simply by looking at the Super Bowl winning GreenBay Packers- who are a publicily owned entity and therefor have open financial records, that not suprisingly show a profit.

in 08 the owners negotiated a new tv deal (which they negotiate on behalf of the players because they split the revenue) where they sold the rights at a lower rate in order to get the networks to continue to pay them $4.5 billion even if there is a lockout and no games are played. they allowed the rights to be sold cheaper, costing the players money in revenue, and set up a safety net for them to eventually lock the players out.

here's how the current CBA's revenue is divided:

the total NFL revenue is around $9 billion

that doesn't include things like concsssions, and other "non-football related revenues such as the out door mall Kraft built at Gillette known as Patriot Place. which was built in 08 for $750 million (man, he's hurting financially)

the owners get an automatic $1 billion off the top as a credit

the players cut over the past few seasons went as follows:
» 2002–51.87 %
» 2003–50.23 %
» 2004–52.18 %
» 2005–50.52 %
» 2006–52.74 %
» 2007–51.84 %
» 2008–50.96 %
» 2009–50.06 %
nfllockout.com

last month the players offered a 50-50 split of the revenue and the owners didn't even entertain the offer. instead they walked away

cliffs:
the owners backed out of the current CBA.
the players have not asked for anything other than to play under the current CBA
the owners stockpiled money in an attempt to continue making a profit during a locked out season

good reads:
[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6177574"]NFL owners' false labor pains - ESPN[/ame]
NFLLockout.com

 

[svtsmo]

Tiki Barber filed papers to come out of retirement :dw:

 

[joeg215]

Tiki Barber filed papers to come out of retirement :dw:

Lol yeap.. looks like he's running out of money.

 

[Stevo151]

Cool thread, seems like your very knowledgable and up to date with everything svtsmo. Sub'd op:

 

[venom_inc]

I bet Tiki doesn't make the 53 man roster, even on the Bills.

 

[BlownAway05]

Good info there svtsmo.

Have the owners suggested an agreement that they want? I'd like to know what they have proposed, would give a better understanding of their perception to what is fair.

LOL at Tiki. Guess his brother has been ribbing him too much about no superbowl rings.

 

[Planter]

do i have inside knowledge? no of course not, the owners won't open their books to us :lol1:

do you realize just how stupid that statement sounds? that's like you going to your boss, and saying, hey I think this company is making more than they are letting on, and I want to see the books and get a raise because of that. NOT GONNA HAPPEN JACKASS.

:bored:

 

[Planter]

unfortunetly the NFL isn't your run of the mill business entity that can simple replace its staff with new people. without these specific players, there is no no NFL, there are no ratings, there are no tv deals, there is no giant revenue pile to be divided up, quite frankly, there are no owners without them. the NFL owners tried replacement players once before, and it didn't work out.

bullshit. there's about 1000 other college students who were football players that never got drafted, that could easily step up and replace these overpaid scrotum sacks, and the game will be just as entertaining, it just wont have all the big name stars we're all used to seeing.

bring on the lockout, i'll go kick field goals as a replacment player for $100,000 a year and I'll be happy about it, and I'll talk with the media, and I'll be appreciative of the fact that I have the ability to do something that most other people don't.

**** these snobby **** munch faggots and their ****ing greed. i mean where else in the world can you go make this kind of money??? NOWHERE!

 

[Sniperdog]

Tell us how you really feel.,., don't sugar coat it :shrug:

 

[01cobravortech]

-1, I dont need more heart-ache lol.. dolphins :nonono:

Either way enjoy the game now before they start really changing things up. Football is incredibly dangerous and is having long-term physical and mental repercussions which we are going to see more and more these days (especially that these guys are getting bigger and bigger).

A recent suicide by an ex-Bear is leading to more research on the after effects. He shot himself in the heart because he didn't want to harm his brain so he can donate it for this sole reason. Hayes: Duerson

Dave Duerson was very depressed. His wife left him after he attacked her, his family fell apart and he went bankrupt. Those are the real reasons behind his suicide. Not some brain injury. He was a very successful business man before he made some bad decisions and his life spiraled out of control.

 

[svtsmo]

Good info there svtsmo.

Have the owners suggested an agreement that they want? I'd like to know what they have proposed, would give a better understanding of their perception to what is fair.

LOL at Tiki. Guess his brother has been ribbing him too much about no superbowl rings.

well the owners remain adamant about a few things:

1. they want to increase the amount of revenue off the top before it is shared. they currently get $1 billion off the top and they're looking for another billion. their reasoning is because off the teams losing money under the current CBA.

problem: they're asking for money without showing the proof. the players are asking them to open their books and they wont do it.

2. the owners want to increase the season from 16 to 18 games. their stated reasoning: getting more value for the fans by reducing the amount of non-competitive preseason games to two.

problem: if thats truly their reasoning, that they're concerned for the fans value, then they would reduce the ticket prices of preseason games. OR, better yet, not require season ticket holders to buy them like they currently do. also, they don't want to expand the roster like the players have requested to accomodate the extra games (i believe from 52 to 53). the more prominent issue is the fact that they are unwilling to compensate the players for these extra games

3. the owners want to create a rookie salary cap or structured salary plan. this really isn't one of the real issues in the matter, as i believe both sides feel this is necessary. (yahoo sports is now reporting that they have reached an agreement on this)




now as of this week, the owners have offered to show their "profitability statements" over the last few years showing that they're losing money. the players have rejected it and for good reason. they're looking for the owners to be completely transparent and show them audited statements showing not only their profitability, but also their expenditures. by just showing their profitability, the owners can say "we netted X amount of money", but if the players don't know what they're total revenue is then they have no idea how it is being spent or if some of it is being hidden. essentially, the owners are asking for $1 billion without turning over their books, so how are the players suppose to believe this? they can't, and this is why it's come to this.

the owners right now are essentially "playing chicken" with the players,and are daring them to take this to court. which i don't quite understand, because then they will be forced to open the books.

 

[01cobravortech]

:rockon:


of course we don't gain anything other than entertainment. That's the point. I love watching football as I'm sure you do as well. Bur as fans we buy the tickets, we buy the jerseys or shirts, and we sit most Sundays to root for our teams. You spent most of the year in threads just like these defending your Bears, don't sit there and try to give me that "holier than thou it I don't care because it's just a game" attitude. I'm not obsessed and I don't treat it for more than it is. But these owners have clearly shown that they don't care about their customers and they take them for granted. And it pisses me off when people just assume it's the players without knowing the facts. Sure it's a game, but to the players it's their careers and their livelihoods. And they put more effort and time into it then most of us put into ours.

Yea that's right I'll defend my Bears when the games are on, but my life goes on whether there is football or not. I enjoy watching just like you do, but I'm not getting depressed over a lockout. The players put more time and effort into their careers than most people do? :lol::lol::lol: They live in the gym, they practice, they study "playbooks." They do not live in the real world like you and me. Most NFL players couldn't do what I do for a living all year round and they couldn't do most of what other people do on these boards. They train for sports, not real life. And that's why most of them squander their fortune after their playing days and their lives tend to be a big mess. Please stop putting these guys on some pedestal because they roll around in practice and lift weights in the gym.

 

[svtsmo]

do you realize just how stupid that statement sounds? that's like you going to your boss, and saying, hey I think this company is making more than they are letting on, and I want to see the books and get a raise because of that. NOT GONNA HAPPEN JACKASS.

:bored:

stupid statement? a stupid statement would be what you just posted ****stick.

bullshit. there's about 1000 other college students who were football players that never got drafted, that could easily step up and replace these overpaid scrotum sacks, and the game will be just as entertaining, it just wont have all the big name stars we're all used to seeing.

bring on the lockout, i'll go kick field goals as a replacment player for $100,000 a year and I'll be happy about it, and I'll talk with the media, and I'll be appreciative of the fact that I have the ability to do something that most other people don't.

**** these snobby **** munch faggots and their ****ing greed. i mean where else in the world can you go make this kind of money??? NOWHERE!

here's where your lack of knowledge in the situation is leaving you short:

THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL BUSINESS ENTITY.

in a typical business, the employees can at anytime be replaced by someone else and business goes on. in the NFL, if there are no players, there are no owners. PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

do you know how the NFL makes money? RATINGS. PEOPLE WATCHING THE GAME. you cannot just throw all of these "1000 other college students who were football players that never got drafted". WHY? because they aren't good enough. people won't watch them. want proof? do yourself a favor and look up what happened in '87.

sure, your dumbass would go out and kick fieldgoals (you couldn't, but lets leave that argument out. keeping this simple is easier for you) but guess what? noone is going to pay to see your dumbass kick a football into your center's ass.

now run along now, do some :read: and become educated in the matter

 

[svtsmo]

Yea that's right I'll defend my Bears when the games are on, but my life goes on whether there is football or not. I enjoy watching just like you do, but I'm not getting depressed over a lockout. The players put more time and effort into their careers than most people do? :lol::lol::lol: They live in the gym, they practice, they study "playbooks." They do not live in the real world like you and me. Most NFL players couldn't do what I do for a living all year round and they couldn't do most of what other people do on these boards. They train for sports, not real life. And that's why most of them squander their fortune after their playing days and their lives tend to be a big mess. Please stop putting these guys on some pedestal because they roll around in practice and lift weights in the gym.

how about this. lets look at this matter form a subjective, nuetral point of view, instead of the jealous person who thinks they just play games angle. like i've said, do they get paid too much? of course, but thats what are culture and economy is. if there's less of something, it costs more, plain and simple. millions of people watch the game and have a desire for it, and there's only 1664 people who are good enough and have the skills to bring it to us. thats just how it is. i dont place them on a pedestal, i'm just more of a realist than you. to argue that they dont put as much or more time and effort into it than normal people is just dumb. the damn sport takes more physical effort and focus than most other jobs.

 

[rfat16]

You said "unfortunetly the NFL isn't your run of the mill business entity that can simple replace its staff with new people. without these specific players, there is no no NFL" Very true. But think of this. If an owner doesn't have football he is still a billionaire. He made that money somewhere other than football. He has something to fall back on. The players have.......job skills????? I think some could figure out a keypad and how to ask would you like fries with that? Point is- Are the owners greedy? I guess so. Anyone who owns a business would always like to make more money. Don't piss off the ones you work for unless you have them by the balls. You might just be sent out to the curb with no paycheck. Players whine way to much about not getting enough money. Come on, just cause you idiots don't know how to save any money why is that your bosses problem??? But I guess the only ones that know anything are the ones that agree with you so just disregard this message

 

[svtsmo]

You said "unfortunetly the NFL isn't your run of the mill business entity that can simple replace its staff with new people. without these specific players, there is no no NFL" Very true. But think of this. If an owner doesn't have football he is still a billionaire. He made that money somewhere other than football. He has something to fall back on. The players have.......job skills????? I think some could figure out a keypad and how to ask would you like fries with that? Point is- Are the owners greedy? I guess so. Anyone who owns a business would always like to make more money. Don't piss off the ones you work for unless you have them by the balls. You might just be sent out to the curb with no paycheck. Players whine way to much about not getting enough money. Come on, just cause you idiots don't know how to save any money why is that your bosses problem??? But I guess the only ones that know anything are the ones that agree with you so just disregard this message

while i agree with you on some parts. problem is, the players aren't asking or whining about more money. they're asking for the owners to abide by the current CBA which the owners dubbed fair enough to approve in a 30-2 vote. they're asking for the owners to turn over their books for proof that they're losing moeny. is that unreasonable? i mean, the owners are only asking for another billion dollars, thats all.

i dont see whats so hard to understand about this. the owners pulled out of the CBA, the owners set up a monetary safety net for a lockout, the owners won't show proof that their losing money, and the owners want more games without fair compensation. the proof is there. if this was a strike and the players were being whiny douches, then i would totally be on the owners side. but thats simple not the case.

 

[01cobravortech]

how about this. lets look at this matter form a subjective, nuetral point of view, instead of the jealous person who thinks they just play games angle. like i've said, do they get paid too much? of course, but thats what are culture and economy is. if there's less of something, it costs more, plain and simple. millions of people watch the game and have a desire for it, and there's only 1664 people who are good enough and have the skills to bring it to us. thats just how it is. i dont place them on a pedestal, i'm just more of a realist than you. to argue that they dont put as much or more time and effort into it than normal people is just dumb. the damn sport takes more physical effort and focus than most other jobs.

I'm not jealous of these guys. I'm more than happy with who I am and what my role in this world is and what my destiny is. I'd like a $10 million a year salary for throwing around a football, that's for sure. But I don't worship money and I'm not a slave to it. What athletes put in is time and effort in their BODIES. They push their BODIES to the limit. Half these guys can't even speak proper English or make sense about much as it is or have success in any area of their life outside an arena. Throwing your body at a person or being able to catch a ball doesn't equate to much in any job in the private sector or anywhere outside a sports arena. Let's be a realist shall we? You talking about these guys as if they are doing something so far out of this world, so utterly amazing as running real fast and hitting someone real hard and throwing people on the ground is just rediculous. I think we'll just have to agree to disgaree on this. Because I don't esteem entertainers as much as you do. And that's all these guys are to me. Entertainers who have no success in any other area of life except in the arena and their wallet, however short lived that is.