Ported Eaton vs Twin Screw at Stock Boost

[gnxs]

The stock 3.5" pulley makes 13 pounds. I'll have to go to something like a 3.75". I'll probably have to contact Whipple for the exact pulley size.

Why do you want to pulley down the boost? 17 psi is safe on pump gas and 15 psi is downright docile.

I'd save your money and stick with the stock Eaton if you're gonna run anything less than 16-17 psi on the Whipple. IMO, even a ported Eaton is a waste at near single digit boost levels.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The twin screw has more power up top giving the peak numbers on the dyno, but I'm not sure how much of a difference there is at low and mid-range rpm. Many folks that went from a ported Eaton to a twin screw note that down low in the rpm range, the twin screw feels very similar to the Eaton, but pulls like a train up top. I would like to see an overlay of the dyno graphs for a ported Eaton and twin screw at the same peak boost levels. The area under the curve is more important to many folks rather than a peak number. Do a test and show us the results. Based on some of the responses above, many folks don't seem to understand what you are talking about.:rolling:

A ported eaton at 15-16#s of boost makes the same torque a Whipple makes at 15-16#s of boost. The Whipples sacrafices the torque for low end power. That is a function of the larger displacement.

 

[gnxs]

A ported eaton at 15-16#s of boost makes the same torque a Whipple makes at 15-16#s of boost. The Whipples sacrafices the torque for low end power. That is a function of the larger displacement.

+1

Not exactly apples to apples (2 psi difference), but here's my Eaton at 14 psi vs. my Whipple at 16 psi (Fall 2004).

Even with 2 less psi and a fatter tune, the Eaton's tq. #'s hang right with the Whipple until nearly 3,500 rpms. At 16 psi, I suspect it would be closer to 4,500 rpms. Like I said earlier, unless you're gonna spin a twin-screw with some decent boost (at least 17 psi), it's a waste of money to upgrade.

 

[breoland]

Why do you want to pulley down the boost? 17 psi is safe on pump gas and 15 psi is downright docile.

I'd save your money and stick with the stock Eaton if you're gonna run anything less than 16-17 psi on the Whipple. IMO, even a ported Eaton is a waste at near single digit boost levels.

Well said:rockon:

 

[G2Mach1]

IDk, but this thread seems to be more about what you can and cannot do under warranty...

 

[gnxs]

IDk, but this thread seems to be more about what you can and cannot do under warranty...

Unless you find a mod-friendly dealer, you really can't do any of this and maintain your warranty. I would think that anything you do that requires a change to the stock Ford tune would risk the integrity of your warranty and most anything beyond a cat-back or minor bolt-ons really should have a custom tune.

 

[2004silvercobra]

:lol:

LOL... too funny! If you don't know then don't say anything as you are way off in your predictions. A twin screw at the same boost is a great deal more efficient and have leaps and bounds of HP over a 112 rotor Eaton at the same boost.

YOUR A JOKE.... HE WANTS TO ONLY HAVE 8-10PSI NOT 15-17 LIKE ALL YOU KEEP SAYING.. AT THAT PSI WHY GET A TWIN SCREW MAYBE A PORTED BUT AGAIN ITS GONNA MAKE ITS POWER AT 15PSI NOT 8... WHY WASTE THE MONEY FOR EITHER TO GAIN 30HP.

 

[C.K.]

All you need to reach 500 on a ported eaton is a 2.8 upper which is 12-14 psi depending on your exhaust setup. A twin screw at 13psi will make 525-550. Dont know why you guys say 100rwhp more

Well if you're just pullied with say a 2.93 you'll make between 450-470. At that same boost level on a twin screw you'll make between 530-550. So plus or minus a couple horsepower, but you get the idea. On top of that,it's pretty rare to break 500rwhp on a ported blower combo, at least here in Cali on 91 octane with between 17-19* of timing. There are cases where I've seen over 500rwhp, but most of those guys are running 21-22* of timing and a higher octane gas.

Why do you want to pulley down the boost? 17 psi is safe on pump gas and 15 psi is downright docile.

I'd save your money and stick with the stock Eaton if you're gonna run anything less than 16-17 psi on the Whipple. IMO, even a ported Eaton is a waste at near single digit boost levels.

17psi on 91 octane is pushing it hard.

YOUR A JOKE.... HE WANTS TO ONLY HAVE 8-10PSI NOT 15-17 LIKE ALL YOU KEEP SAYING.. AT THAT PSI WHY GET A TWIN SCREW MAYBE A PORTED BUT AGAIN ITS GONNA MAKE ITS POWER AT 15PSI NOT 8... WHY WASTE THE MONEY FOR EITHER TO GAIN 30HP.

After reading everything again, looks like I jumped the gun a little bit. You're right. I don't really know what to say about 8-10psi. I don't think a twin screw would be worth the money at those boost levels though.

 

[jm@ReischePerf]

I feel confident enough that I can run a whipple at lower boost and still keep my remaining 80K left in my warranty.

Unless you're letting the service advisor do your wife, I'd say good luck getting any warranty work done on an engine with a twin screw on it. My advice to you is run the Whipple at the 13lbs with a very conservative tune - low timing and a fat A/F. Get your cooling system running lower temps & more effectively by whatever mods you prefer, upgrade IC system and monitor your fuel pressure, A/F & IATs very well. Won't need a knock sensor because there'll be no chance of predetonation. You'll never have a problem with this engine for a very long time and will be making around 500 quite safely.

 

[Almo]

YOUR A JOKE.... HE WANTS TO ONLY HAVE 8-10PSI NOT 15-17 LIKE ALL YOU KEEP SAYING.. AT THAT PSI WHY GET A TWIN SCREW MAYBE A PORTED BUT AGAIN ITS GONNA MAKE ITS POWER AT 15PSI NOT 8... WHY WASTE THE MONEY FOR EITHER TO GAIN 30HP.

:lol: I'm not the one tossing out incorrect information by saying a TS at the same boost level of an Eaton will only produce 10 to 20 HP. LOL... failed attempt. :kaboom: Please try again Colorado.

 

[Boostinator]

The Eaton is super effiecient up to 14 LBS....any more then that it looses its effientency....any more then 14 LBS Twin Screw is the way to go!

 

[eaglesnick]

A larger upper pulley than the stock 3.5 will not clear the stock hood.

 

[Posi]

Stock Eaton Boost= 8ish correct

Stock Whipple Boost=15ish correct

Game Over!

 

[Ryushin]

OKay, the simple fact is I'm trying to reach 500RWHP on 8-10 psi. I keep hearing that it probably can't be done. Well, I'm going to try. According to the Whipple web site link that I provided, running stock boost the Whipple is much more efficient than the Eaton. I'm going to be e-mailing Whipple to get more details on that dyno graph, but if it holds true, then that is the way to go for myself.

Eaglesnick: Are you sure a larger pulley won't fit? Have you seen anyone put one one? Going from 3.5" to 3.75" is just going to be 1/8" taller. A call to Lethal or Whipple might answer that for me.

I still want to install knock sensors. If I have a fuel injector that is not preforming correctly, I could have a lean cylinder. Having the knock sensors is cheap insurance for me and should have come with the motor to begin with.

My warranty and health of my motor are important to me. So making the motor more efficient instead of pushing it harder will give me a longer life for the engine. If it comes down to a doing some warranty work, I could just swap the Eaton back on. Yes, it will take about 5 hours each time but I can live with that.

 

[gnxs]

17psi on 91 octane is pushing it hard.

Whoops, wasn't thinking that not everybody can get 93. Some guys might say 18 psi can be run on 91, but I'm with you.

 

[gnxs]

OKay, the simple fact is I'm trying to reach 500RWHP on 8-10 psi. I keep hearing that it probably can't be done. Well, I'm going to try. According to the Whipple web site link that I provided, running stock boost the Whipple is much more efficient than the Eaton. I'm going to be e-mailing Whipple to get more details on that dyno graph, but if it holds true, then that is the way to go for myself.

Eaglesnick: Are you sure a larger pulley won't fit? Have you seen anyone put one one? Going from 3.5" to 3.75" is just going to be 1/8" taller. A call to Lethal or Whipple might answer that for me.

I still want to install knock sensors. If I have a fuel injector that is not preforming correctly, I could have a lean cylinder. Having the knock sensors is cheap insurance for me and should have come with the motor to begin with.

My warranty and health of my motor are important to me. So making the motor more efficient instead of pushing it harder will give me a longer life for the engine. If it comes down to a doing some warranty work, I could just swap the Eaton back on. Yes, it will take about 5 hours each time but I can live with that.

Sorry, but IMO you're talking about this motor like it's made out of glass. All the precautions you're considering simply aren't required for what you want. And why you're self-imposing an 8-10 psi limit on the motor is beyond me.

The "K.I.S.S." principle applies here.

If warranty and health of the motor really are THAT important to you (like you indicated above), you should just leave it alone. However, if you want to swap blowers on and off for warranty work, making 500 rwhp with a Whipple on 91 octane is childs play. Also, your tune, a WB O2 sensor, datalogging, etc. will be ALOT more help in making the engine last than a knock sensor.

My $0.02.

 

[eaglesnick]

Do you still have the hood blanket on? I know for a fact the 3.5" stock pulley scrapes the blanket on some cars so I don't think a 3.75" will clear the hood let alone the hood blanket if it's still in place.

If you are willing to go through the effort of swapping the blower for warranty work then why not just leave the stock 3.5" pulley on the whipple and run 13#. Another option is to buy an eaton from someone who has upgraded to a twinscrew/turbo and have a stage V port done to it and keep your stock one; however I think you will be happier and stress the motor less with a whipple at 13# than an eaton at 15+. Just my opinion.

 

[JMBLOWNWS6]

I ordered a whipple. I have been banging my heads for months. But selling all the stock stuff helps out with the bill of the whipple.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

OKay, the simple fact is I'm trying to reach 500RWHP on 8-10 psi. I keep hearing that it probably can't be done. Well, I'm going to try. According to the Whipple web site link that I provided, running stock boost the Whipple is much more efficient than the Eaton. I'm going to be e-mailing Whipple to get more details on that dyno graph, but if it holds true, then that is the way to go for myself.

Eaglesnick: Are you sure a larger pulley won't fit? Have you seen anyone put one one? Going from 3.5" to 3.75" is just going to be 1/8" taller. A call to Lethal or Whipple might answer that for me.

I still want to install knock sensors. If I have a fuel injector that is not preforming correctly, I could have a lean cylinder. Having the knock sensors is cheap insurance for me and should have come with the motor to begin with.

My warranty and health of my motor are important to me. So making the motor more efficient instead of pushing it harder will give me a longer life for the engine. If it comes down to a doing some warranty work, I could just swap the Eaton back on. Yes, it will take about 5 hours each time but I can live with that.

You are kind of missing the point here. Stock boost for a Whipple is 13# you aren't going to get any real benefit running it much lower than that. Running a Whipple at 13#s is about the ONLY situation where it runs cooler than a ported eaton. As you raise the boost, IATs are the same.

Lowering the boost on the Whipple will soften the low end and give you nominal high RPM gains. My point is you will start to deminish the area under the curve. If you want 500 HP, your best bet is to run a ported eaton. I think you would be unsatisfied running a Whipple at 10#, if it could even be done. A proted eaton car would be faster.

By the way, I have a knock sensor, wideband o2 and EGT gauge in my car. I also monitor IAT and IAT2. You have to do something stupid in the tune to get it to knock under 500 WHP.

 

[jm@ReischePerf]

web site link that I provided, running stock boost the Whipple is much more efficient than the Eaton.

I read both of the links you provided and could not find that info. Whipple doesn't provide anything for less than 13lbs of boost and the other author said flat out that the roots blower has low end advantages over the twin screw. He also went on to say that under equal conditions the twin screw outperforms the roots in peak hp primarily by making MORE BOOST :shrug: He also said beware of info being provided by someone with financial stake in the matter. Did you read his entire page?

My warranty and health of my motor are important to me. So making the motor more efficient instead of pushing it harder will give me a longer life for the engine.

If you're obsessed with running the engine at stock boost then port the Eaton, plenum and get a better TB. There's probably some fine tuning that could be done to the exhaust with the right set of headers and a catless X, and you could do cams and head porting. Your goal could be possible if you throw enough money at the situation. But running a twin screw at less than 10lbs is a complete waste of time and money and will not have the results you want. You will lose power down low because the blower is too large for what you are using it for. Larger blowers are for making more boost, proper sizing and efficiency go hand and hand. Go back and read that other link again, it's all spelled out right there for you.