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Retrofitting a '13 GT500 carbon fiber driveshaft to an '07-'12 GT500

Discussion in 'SVT Shelby GT500' started by Tob, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I finally got the opportunity to weigh the '07-'12 bare flange/adapter combination. The two of them fitted together (but without all the bolts to tie them together) came in at 7 lbs 5.4 ounces. This means that the adapter combination comes in at 3 lbs 5.1 ounces more than a stock 2013 flange (which weighs 4 lbs 0.3 ounces). For '07-'09 owners, this still means a net reduction in weight at the flange of 2 lbs 4.6 ounces ('07-'09 comes in at 9 lbs 10 ounces).

    IMAG1053.jpg

    Dimensionally, these are the bolts that will be going through the rear face of the original flange...

    CFFlangeBolts.jpg

    And this is the size/length of the bolts that will retain the CV joint/shaft...

    CFFlangeBoltsLong.jpg

    And because I finally got a few moments this morning I took the two apart and cleaned up the threads...

    IMAG1067.jpg

    IMAG1066.jpg

    IMAG1063.jpg

    IMAG1070.jpg

    IMAG1071.jpg

    Down in the basement finishing up two water heater tanks and an expansion tank (pressure relief valve kept burping), I took a quick video of the assembly with my phone. I wanted to show how precise the pilot fit is...CLICK HERE...
     
  2. Cuda426

    Cuda426 New Member Established Member

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    Very nice. I have high hopes he makes a batch of these, so I can get one.

    Does anyone know if the 2013 trans output shaft will fit the earlier Transmissions? I'm guessing not because of different gear ratios, just wondered if anyone has looked into that.
     
  3. Catmonkey

    Catmonkey I Void Warranties! Premium Member Established Member

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    Tob, I'm curious if you intend to drill out the threads in the splined hub. I can't see that you can get sufficient clamping force from the bolts with both pieces being threaded.
     
  4. Cuda426

    Cuda426 New Member Established Member

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    I wondered the same thing till I saw the video, looks like the thread diameter in the hub are larger than than the thread diameter in the adapter, so no interference with clamping the two parts together.
     
  5. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Excellent question. One that I discussed with Tom. The '07-'12 bolts at the transmission flange were part #HB2 and there were four of them (and there were six #HB2's at the pinion flange). The '13 uses #4B496 and there are six of them at the transmission flange and six of them at the pinion flange. Whats the difference? The '07-'12 uses less bolts (four versus six) at the transmission but they were larger than what the '13 uses.

    HB2's measure M12 X 1.75 X 27.0
    4B496's measure M10 x 1.5

    2007-2012 shaft/bolts...

    _boltsizes2009_zpsd6fea439.jpg

    2013 shaft/bolts...

    _boltsizes2013_zpsf2115c87.jpg

    In essence, the bolts that will go through the rear face of the '07-'12 flange are smaller than what Ford used to secure the OEM 2 piece shaft and U-joint from the front. But there will be 8 M10 x 1.5 socket headed cap screws used on the adapter flange...

    IMAG1107_zpsdaed0920.jpg

    Since these are smaller than the drilled/tapped holes in the original fixed flange they won't be engaging those threads. They are 12.9 class cap screw with a tensile strength of 174,000 psi (specs were listed in a previous post). The torque spec should come in ~ 62 ft-lbs (highlighted)...

    _boltchart1_zps874ec2b5.jpg

    I also intended to use these bolts through the CV joint side...

    IMAG1109_zps7a4e930d.jpg

    A shouldered socket headed cap screw (no zinc coating). I found that the shoulder interfered with the CV joint body so I can't use them. So today I stopped by Fastenal and ordered some M10 x 1.5 x 50 (under head length) 12.9 class zinc plated socket head cap screws to use in their place. Much better for corrosion than the simple black oxide.

    The cap screws that will run backwards through the fixed flange will be secured with Loctite 263...

    IMAG1135_zps45f8ee86.jpg

    ON EDIT...
    You nailed it brother.
     
  6. heatsoaked12

    heatsoaked12 Member Established Member

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    fantastic work,look forward to hearing the results (nvh) and total weight difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  7. - Aj -

    - Aj - Active Member Established Member

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    Bump?....
     
  8. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    A valiant effort Aj. I have quite a bit going on right now but am picking at this one ever so slowly. I promise to update when I have something substantial. I'm not turning my back on this one.

    No way.
     
  9. einehund

    einehund Well-Known Member Established Member

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    This thread is exactly why I'm about to pull the trigger on an OEM driveshaft. I can't thank you enough for your input to the GT500 section TOB. f'n good on you!
     
  10. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I spent some time freezing my behind off in the garage today. I'm trying to keep this project moving forward as much as I have a lot going on right now.

    I started pulling the factory shaft out by removing the bolts at the transmission fixed flange. Next I removed the two bolts/spacers at the carrier, roughly in the middle of the driveshaft. I finished by removing the bolts at the pinion flange at the rear. This finally gave me the opportunity to compare the factory '07-'12 shaft to that of the '13/'14.

    More similarity between the two that I would have thought.

    IMG_0475_zps117adad2.jpg

    I can't attest to the internals but externally, the rear CV joints are the same.

    IMG_0473_zps4cc00788.jpg

    IMG_0474_zps48546f59.jpg

    I noticed something rather interesting. The CV joint at the middle of the old shaft looked very much like the CV joint at the front of the '13 shaft, so I disassembled the shaft from my '09...

    IMG_0478_zpsf51a7c6f.jpg

    IMG_0476_zps87617a3d.jpg

    IMG_0484_zps285b426e.jpg

    IMG_0485_zps50079dd9.jpg

    Boots are the same...my '09...

    IMG_0481_zps8c2a128d.jpg

    ...and the '13...

    IMG_0480_zpsaddeddff.jpg

    For a minute I thought there might be a way to get a fixed flange for free that would save a lot of money (that's a '13 flange in my hand)...

    IMG_0488_zpsce1e20c0.jpg

    Especially since the '13 flange fit the '09 shaft CV joint perfectly...

    IMG_0490_zpsd290cb79.jpg

    Only problem, it isn't machined properly (splines, etc).

    IMG_0492_zps5e801749.jpg

    IMG_0494_zpsae4a2d30.jpg

    More of the two...

    IMG_0503_zps22622c71.jpg

    IMG_0495_zps4828e03a.jpg

    Looks like I can pillage the paired washers and possibly the bolts from the '09 shaft and use them up front on the '13 shaft.

    IMG_0505_zps4a2b7867.jpg

    IMG_0508_zps93b39710.jpg

    IMG_0509_zps64483a87.jpg

    I need to fit and verify clearance between the '13 shaft and the earlier tunnel as well as find the appropriate socket in order to remove the flange nut.

    IMG_0460_zps738e69f2.jpg

    From what I've seen with driveshaft swaps of similar diameter there are at least two potential points where there could be contact. I may have to relocate the emergency cable bracket over a couple of inches...

    IMG_0459_zps4cf8d1d2.jpg

    As well as flatten or remove the stamped 'hump' (with the hole in it) in the center of the tunnel...

    IMG_0458_zps2ecdf31f.jpg

    Same area, only looking towards the rear from the front...

    IMG_0469_zps8a397314.jpg

    It's been a long road and I'm trying to keep this one moving forward.

    :rockon:
     
  11. stkjock

    stkjock Corn Powered 900 HP! Established Member

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    Interesting finds. Keep up the good work.
     
  12. 03 DSG Snake

    03 DSG Snake Unknown Cyborg Established Member

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    +1 Thanks for the updates. Interesting project so far.
     
  13. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I set out to remove the fixed flange today, as I had picked up a couple of different sockets (a 1-1/4" and a 32mm...wasn't sure but both fit) this morning. What I did not pick up was the proper puller. I had a few pullers at home and figured I could get at least one of them to somehow work. Ford shows this type in their service manual...

    OutputShaftFlangeRemoverToolcopy_zps920d58ed.jpg

    IMG_0464_zps579ee961.jpg

    Getting the 1-1/4" nut off was easy enough. I tried briefly to pry the flange off. Wasn't happening. It was at this point that I found out that any combination of bearing splitter, 2 jaw, 3 jaw, steering wheel pulley, or harmonic balancer removal tool was destined to fail. There either wasn't enough room and/or it just wasn't happening.


    Plan B was a chunk of angle iron, a nut/bolt, drilling some holes, and a few minutes with the TIG.

    IMG_0516_zps26356776.jpg

    IMG_0515_zps8bd0f78f.jpg

    IMAG0182_zpsb8ed6f70.jpg

    I was surprised how tight the fit was. I couldn't pull it off by hand until the puller brought almost all the way to the end of the shaft.

    IMAG0185_zps73449d51.jpg

    IMAG0188_zpsbab41238.jpg

    IMAG0189_zps86e4da27.jpg

    IMG_0510_zpsbefd6ea2.jpg

    IMG_0517_zps30109f8c.jpg

    Something I had overlooked was the o-ring.

    IMG_0521_zps53900116.jpg

    Looked innocent enough...

    IMG_0519_zpsc8179ce7.jpg

    As I plucked out the 0-ring with a length of sharpened Tungsten I noticed all the shavings that were packed in tightly along with it...

    IMG_0522_zps814d16fa.jpg

    IMG_0524_zpsd7ba17a1.jpg

    Looks like I'll be flushing out the tranny. With less than 2,000 miles I suspect that the shavings weren't cleaned out after manufacturing and before assembling. A bit disconcerting I suppose.

    Almost there.

    IMG_0526_zps91d6058d.jpg

    IMG_0528_zps682d5d01.jpg
     
  14. 03 DSG Snake

    03 DSG Snake Unknown Cyborg Established Member

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    I want you to adopt me and my vehicles. :banana:
     
  15. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Between NY and CA, the fees would kill me.
     
  16. GT Premi

    GT Premi Well known member Established Member

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    Tob, you sure those shavings aren't a result of you removing the flange? The splines look like they have some scoring on them. The tightness you were feeling could have been from the flange being slightly tweaked as you were pulling it out. Your improvised puller might not have been precise enough.
     
  17. Catmonkey

    Catmonkey I Void Warranties! Premium Member Established Member

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    If it scored them coming out, you know it had to score them going in. Same problem.
     
  18. GT Premi

    GT Premi Well known member Established Member

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    Not necessarily. They have precision tools at the factory. Tob used a makeshift puller that might have pulled the flange out at an [unnoticeable] angle.
     
  19. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You can't pull it off at an angle. The puller worked perfectly.

    Those shavings were in the tranny trying to get out but were stopped at the o-ring.
     
  20. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Since I was out in the shop I wanted to take care of a couple of things. I've paid close attention to as many driveshaft swaps across the web as possible. That, in concert with the installation instructions from a few different manufacturers gave me an idea of what to look out for.

    I have still yet to fit the shaft from the '13 GT500 into my '09. But since I really don't feel like repeatedly installing the shaft and then removing it for 'clearancing' I decided to incorporate some of what I've seen. A few careful blows with a mini sledge to some elevated sections in the tunnel as well as relocating an emergency brake cable bolt/bracket that loops over the shaft in the tunnel.

    IMG_0531_zps0f93cda1.jpg

    I drilled a nearby hole using a cordless drill and a 1/4" steel bit.

    IMG_0530_zpsb68f07ac.jpg

    IMG_0534_zps299ac9e8.jpg

    I filled the original hole with a liberal dousing of RTV sealant.

    IMG_0537_zps70cace19.jpg

    I'll check the available clearance with the shaft in place and hopefully I'll be satisfied with what I see.

    I also picked up some hardware from Ford for the flange install. Starting with a new washer (for between the flange nut and output shaft/flange face)...

    IMG_0564_zpsecfa3f3f.jpg

    A new Mexican o-ring...

    IMG_0565_zps4ebfff6c.jpg

    And new nut...

    IMG_0570_zps06823ca1.jpg

    The Nylon gets trashed upon install/removal so you really shouldn't reuse the original nut.

    IMG_0572_zps9cd2d5f1.jpg

    Ford does have use for the old nut though (and its a great idea)...

    Tremec1d_zpsbd37b5f6.jpg

    So I started by inserting a new o-ring into my new flange "assembly." You can see how the old one got deformed by the splines on the shaft...

    IMG_0573_zps5cd3267d.jpg

    IMG_0574_zps7e1bbda5.jpg

    I then used a M10 x 1.5 bolt, some assorted washers, a socket that fit over the output shaft (without touching it) to draw the flange much of the way onto the shaft. Far from optimum but it did the job. A length of threaded rod in the aforementioned metric size along with the appropriate nut /washers would have been much better but I didn't have it.

    IMG_0575_zps533d0005.jpg

    IMG_0580_zps9d42baa1.jpg

    IMG_0589_zpsab3f97a4.jpg

    When I get the chance I'll install and torque the new nut to 105 lb-ft and finally be able to fit the shaft.

    IMG_0592_zpsb11851ef.jpg
     

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