:rockon: :beer:
San Antonio Theater Shooting
- Thread starter nickf2005
- Start date
:rockon: :beer:
You aren't an exception. People who think cops and military are superiorly trained shooters clearly know NOTHING about guns. The military is generally taught to throw rounds down range and lord only knows what cops are taught because from what I can tell whatever they are taught isn't done well. I've met very few who grip handguns properly none the less shot straight. I don't know who's teaching these guys to shoot but when I'm at the range guys like Bob Leatham are offering advice on my draw and index. Whatever is happening in our police training centers isn't up to speed IMO.
I would absolutely trust a well practiced ccw owner who does weekly uspsa matches over the best the military or police have to offer. All one has to do is look up the stats for ccw vs police shootings and you'll find ccw owners are generally safer.
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Don't most officers only have to qualify like once per year? It's not like most are shooting every week. Agree with the above, why does a person need a badge to be qualified to do something heroic?
I copied this from another forum. Please put up facts that support you in the position that assault rifles increase the murder rate.
A LITTLE GUN CONTROL HISTORY
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and
from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated
in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf
This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the bur‐ den of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, espe‐ cially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.149 To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.
Over a decade ago, Professor Brandon Centerwall of the Uni‐ versity of Washington undertook an extensive, statistically sophis‐ ticated study comparing areas in the United States and Canada to determine whether Canada’s more restrictive policies had better contained criminal violence. When he published his results it was with the admonition:
If you are surprised by [our] finding, so [are we]. [We] did not begin this research with any intent to “exonerate” hand‐ guns, but there it is—a negative finding, to be sure, but a nega‐ tive finding is nevertheless a positive contribution. It directs us where not to aim public health resources.150
http://www.examiner.com/article/medi...-armed-citizen
Here are a few facts about armed Americans:
-In 1982, the town of Kennesaw, Georgia, passed an ordinance which required all heads of household to have at least one gun in the house. The burglary rate immediately dropped an astounding 89 percent. Ten years after the law was passed, the burglary rate was still 72 percent less than it was in 1981.
-Armed citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as the police do every year in this country (1,527 to 606).
-A 1996 University of Chicago study concluded that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rates by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent, and robbery by 3 percent.
-According to the National Safety Council, with guns being used 2.5 million times a year in self defense against criminals, firearms are actually used more than 80 times more often to protect lives, rather than to take lives.
-A 1979 Justice Department study entitled Rape Victimization in American Cities, concluded that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually committed.
-Another Justice Department study found that 57 percent of felons agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running the police."
A LITTLE GUN CONTROL HISTORY
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and
from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people,
unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated
in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf
This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the bur‐ den of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, espe‐ cially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.149 To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.
Over a decade ago, Professor Brandon Centerwall of the Uni‐ versity of Washington undertook an extensive, statistically sophis‐ ticated study comparing areas in the United States and Canada to determine whether Canada’s more restrictive policies had better contained criminal violence. When he published his results it was with the admonition:
If you are surprised by [our] finding
http://www.examiner.com/article/medi...-armed-citizen
Here are a few facts about armed Americans:
-In 1982, the town of Kennesaw, Georgia, passed an ordinance which required all heads of household to have at least one gun in the house. The burglary rate immediately dropped an astounding 89 percent. Ten years after the law was passed, the burglary rate was still 72 percent less than it was in 1981.
-Armed citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as the police do every year in this country (1,527 to 606).
-A 1996 University of Chicago study concluded that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rates by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent, and robbery by 3 percent.
-According to the National Safety Council, with guns being used 2.5 million times a year in self defense against criminals, firearms are actually used more than 80 times more often to protect lives, rather than to take lives.
-A 1979 Justice Department study entitled Rape Victimization in American Cities, concluded that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually committed.
-Another Justice Department study found that 57 percent of felons agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running the police."
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This is correct, I would say that I shoot far more often that the police. Their qualification is not very hard.
This comes from North Carolina. I'm sure all states are different, but it's an example.
http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CMPD/zstorage/InsideCMPD/Documents/400002Firearms.pdf
Yup, I do a lot more than that.
Looooool! Really? I guess your average ccw holder has tons of experience dealing with hostiles,clearing buildings,hostage situations and fire fights.
Your average ccw holder would more than likely panic in a crowded theatre
Sent with my over sized Johnson
Fighting Back: Crime, Self-Defense, and the Right to Carry a Handgun | Jeffrey R. Snyder | Cato Institute
You'll find that police are 11 times more likely to kill innocent bystanders than ccw holders. Similar studies have shown that ccw owners are less likely to miss and discharge their weapons less frequently (the latter is mentioned there) with fewer rounds fired. One of the reasons is that people that carry daily are generally enthusiasts and are more likely to be at the range in their spare time. Many of the friends that I frequent the range with are police and I easily frequent the range 20x more. This summer I did two practicals a week plus whatever time I spent at the range goofing off with friends. The result is the complete and utter destruction of these officer friends in competition. By all standards they are terrible shots and the way they recount qualification sessions leads me to believe much of their department has trouble qualifying every year in what I consider menial firearm exercises.
The old phrase that practice makes perfect applies here.
It would behoove you to learn what practical pistol, 3 gun competition, etc is before you say something else retarded. That is, by definition, what uspsa matches prepare people for.
As far as panicking, statistics prove otherwise as I posted above. The police aren't the godly super humans the movies make them out be.
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You need to actually learn what special ops and swat do before you say something idiotic like taking your average ccw holder over those s.o
Sent with my over sized Johnson
SWAT and special ops aren't your average police officers just like Rob Let ham isn't your average ccw holder. Average for average the statistics prove you wrong.
FYI, local SWAT frequents practical matches here and their scores are average in competition that simulates those very conditions you described.
Except it's not because cops cannot be at every place at every time. Where was the cop at the Oregon mall, or the Virginia Tech shooting, or the Sandy Hook shooting, or any other violent occurrence?
It's also not logical because he's assuming that the average person who carries is a shitty shot. It's quite the opposite. People who carry regularly strive to be good shots in case something happens to them or where they are.
You can live in a fantasy land where the police are everywhere, but that's just not how it is. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.
Planter
Banned
you sound like Piers Morgan.
Piers Morgan: Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws I may deport myself | Mail Online
Piers Morgan said:
the idiot in the article is assuming everyone in the theatre would be armed. :nonono:
maybe 3 or 4 in the theatre at most would be armed, many people own firearms, but just don't want the hassle and responsibility of carrying in public and leave it up to fate.
Last year I read a ridiculous and retarded article that some troll who calls herself a journalist wrote for the Knoxville News
Pam Strickland: Don't turn Knoxville into Dodge City » Knoxville News Sentinel
I sent in a letter to the editor, calling her out. This was the reply I sent.
this is the reply those liberal scumbag jerkoffs posted. they didn't bother to post the stats, or the links/sources I cited.
Letter: Media wrong about guns, criminals : Knoxville News Sentinel
The bottom line is that LE does not protect us from the bad people. They just cleanup after it is done. We are on our own at the critical moment in vast majority of cases.
all i am saying is having more guns is not the solution, not that any ONE thing could be the solution at this point.
people blindly scream more guns without thinking.
i had this argument with my brother over christmas, hes saying more guns, give the janitors guns and the teachers.
that is insane! we even knew a guy who was a janitor in a school and he was crazy, on drugs, and unstable.
teachers? no offense to any in here or loved ones but teachers are the wildest girls i have ever met.
you'd stop one maniac killer and save 20 kids but cause tons more murders by arming random people. trained with a whole 8 hour course or not.
what i would like to see is rfid technology added to guns, retrofitted or phasing out ones without. would take time but whatever.
you get your id chip implanted and its simple rfid (short range signal, credit cards can have these so no tin foil hat stuff)
the same crap your dog might have implanted in it.
now the gun is programmed to only fire for that person.
this can reduce or eliminate people grabbing family guns.
the extra cost can be passed onto gun owners.. sorry but thats the same as gas guzzling tax for cars.
after that we can work on who can get a license and etc a bit better.
people blindly scream more guns without thinking.
i had this argument with my brother over christmas, hes saying more guns, give the janitors guns and the teachers.
that is insane! we even knew a guy who was a janitor in a school and he was crazy, on drugs, and unstable.
teachers? no offense to any in here or loved ones but teachers are the wildest girls i have ever met.
you'd stop one maniac killer and save 20 kids but cause tons more murders by arming random people. trained with a whole 8 hour course or not.
what i would like to see is rfid technology added to guns, retrofitted or phasing out ones without. would take time but whatever.
you get your id chip implanted and its simple rfid (short range signal, credit cards can have these so no tin foil hat stuff)
the same crap your dog might have implanted in it.
now the gun is programmed to only fire for that person.
this can reduce or eliminate people grabbing family guns.
the extra cost can be passed onto gun owners.. sorry but thats the same as gas guzzling tax for cars.
after that we can work on who can get a license and etc a bit better.
Quit being an idiot, no one wants to force guns upon the people, people should be allowed to carry IF THEY PLEASE. Fact of the matter is, most school faculty that agrees to carry in a school is not only because they understand that the only thing that might have saved some lives in that tragedy would be a trained armed individual but also because they more than likely already have a gun and have practice. You're making it seem like you're ALLOWING teachers to carry yet they don't know what a trigger. People that are pro 2A is because they've been around guns and understand that we don't live in a utopia, most anti gun people are just knee jerk liberals who only come out of the woodwork when something like this happens, this is really easy to spot since 99% of them have little to know knowledge on guns.
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