Note: I posted this a few months ago in a KBB argument thread. There was some really good feedback from the community, so I finally decided to post it as its own thread in hopes that the mods will sticky it.
Maybe this will help curb a lot of the discussions/arguments about how much people should charge for their cars and why.
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About every month, another thread pops up asking about the price of 03-04 Cobras and why they can vary so greatly and never seem to be anywhere near what Blue Book tells you it is. I wanted to contribute what I learned when I purchased my car in hopes that any new prospective owners can use it.
Supply and Demand - That price you are seeing on kbb and nadaguides? Pretty much useless. Both guides give you reasonable depreciation numbers based on a value that assumes demand for such a vehicle is met by consumer interest. SVT vehicles are produced in limited quantities and their rarity demands a premium on price usually not reflected by these guides.
A good example of this (if not a bit extreme) is the Ferrari Enzo. The price suggested by Ferrari is roughly half of what people who own one paid. The car was limited, everyone wanted one, and you are willing to pay a premium to have something so exclusive.
Cobras are no different. The 2000 R was one of the most limited and the prices even today certainly reflect that. While Terminators are less rare, exactly how many do you see on the road every day in your daily commute?
You will pay extra for the privilege of a vehicle that is more rare.
Mileage - Mileage can be a determining factor in the cars usage over the past several years. Sure, some low milage cars got the crap kicked out of them when they were driven, but garage queens have usually seen almost no adverse weather, serious stop and go traffic from commutes, or any of the other things that wear down a car into old age.
If you are looking at something with low mileage, you have to consider that you are dealing not with drivers so much as you are dealing with collectors and again you will see a premium for such a privilege.
The 03-04 Cobra is approaching the cusp in which its numbers will begin to dwindle from normal usage, and lower mileage cars are becoming a long term investment as they head for storage and a classic status.
This is a special car with a great lineage and is cited by many (Shelby included) as being a milestone that's going to be recognized for years to come.
Condition - When someone in a 2003 stock V6 says their Mustang is in great condition versus someone who says their Terminator is in great shape, you're probably going to be looking over a chasm of difference in the term 'great'. Terminators that are in great shape look new. I mean REALLY new. Normal drivers don't keep their cars looking this good after a month let alone 6 years in service.
Even the ones broadcast on here in fair shape are much better than average. Cobra owners are a discerning bunch, and by and large most of us keep our cars looking better than we keep our own appearance up.
Reliability - The most often cited reason for a premium on price tends to be how reliable the engine really is. This things were built for speed, and most of us have had fantastic luck with the engines we were given. If you stare at the boards long enough you'll begin to panic as you see many people having problems, but they number in the (at most) dozens compared to the hundreds or even thousands of us that don't seem to have much to worry about.
Also remember that you are on a site dedicated to the performance and modification of such a vehicle, and reliability may be compromised if you push too hard or push at all and don't take the right precautions.
These things are BEASTS and there is no vehicle in the same range that can do what this car can do.
Paint - There are a handful of colors that are more equal than others. Orange and Mystichrome tend to be the biggest standouts mostly because of their rarity and their ability to....stand out. Condition of the paint is also a big factor in price, since the paint on Fords is notoriously weak in spots and taking care of your shell can be the difference in a repaint in a year or having it look like it rolled off the showroom floor in ten more years.
Modifications - This is going to undoubtedly be the biggest issue of contention in this post. Owners of cars they modify will sometimes price a vehicle thinking that mods add value to a car. In many cases, mods tend to devalue a vehicle because it shows wear and tear above and beyond OEM specification.
In my experiences, if you are buying a car with modifications or trying to sell one, expect about 20% of what was put into the car to be returned back at the transfer of title. It sucks, but we're not adding wings on to our house. Most new owners prefer cars at stock because it gives them a feeling of security and the ability to craft the car in the image they see fit.
The only exceptions to this tend to be at the high end. If you Whipple the car, remove the entire engine to polish it, or have done such a pristine job with what you've done, you can expect someone to pay a lot more for that car as it is.
Timing - Good luck trying to get a good deal two weeks before spring. Good luck trying to sell your car for 25% over what you paid for it in the middle of February.
If you are patient and not in a hurry, people do part with their cars more often in the winter when the pragmatic side of our brains takes over and we start to wonder if we can use that money elsewhere in our budgets.
You better hurry though, because the first sign of sun slaps us back into Steve McQueen mode and you'd have to pry the steering wheel from our cold, dead hand.
Conclusion - The Terminator is a collector's car and a modder's dream. You can't come here looking for your first car and think you are going to pay the same for a Cobra as your other high school buddy paid for his Z28. You have to be able to look at the points above and decide what you want in your next ride.
If you are looking for something to enjoy for enjoyment's sake, you will stumble across a good deal if you are patient. Expect mileage to be higher than 60k and the wear on the non-mechanical to reflect that. If you are looking for a collectible, you already know what you will be looking for in price and condition, so there isn't much point in offering you advice anyways.
There will always be a little wiggle room in the price but remember to not be offensive in serious offers. Ownership always increase what you think something might be worth. Just remember that something is only worth what others are willing to pay for it.
I purchased my Cobra several months ago and I cannot explain in words how happy this car has made me. The fun I have when I drop the hammer, throw the person next to me back into their seat and watch them go silent because they've never been in anything so fast is just pure sex. Couple that with a community that is nice, well informed, and helpful and you are assured that you will fall in love with your Cobra once you get it.
Good luck!
Maybe this will help curb a lot of the discussions/arguments about how much people should charge for their cars and why.
---------------------
About every month, another thread pops up asking about the price of 03-04 Cobras and why they can vary so greatly and never seem to be anywhere near what Blue Book tells you it is. I wanted to contribute what I learned when I purchased my car in hopes that any new prospective owners can use it.
Supply and Demand - That price you are seeing on kbb and nadaguides? Pretty much useless. Both guides give you reasonable depreciation numbers based on a value that assumes demand for such a vehicle is met by consumer interest. SVT vehicles are produced in limited quantities and their rarity demands a premium on price usually not reflected by these guides.
A good example of this (if not a bit extreme) is the Ferrari Enzo. The price suggested by Ferrari is roughly half of what people who own one paid. The car was limited, everyone wanted one, and you are willing to pay a premium to have something so exclusive.
Cobras are no different. The 2000 R was one of the most limited and the prices even today certainly reflect that. While Terminators are less rare, exactly how many do you see on the road every day in your daily commute?
You will pay extra for the privilege of a vehicle that is more rare.
Mileage - Mileage can be a determining factor in the cars usage over the past several years. Sure, some low milage cars got the crap kicked out of them when they were driven, but garage queens have usually seen almost no adverse weather, serious stop and go traffic from commutes, or any of the other things that wear down a car into old age.
If you are looking at something with low mileage, you have to consider that you are dealing not with drivers so much as you are dealing with collectors and again you will see a premium for such a privilege.
The 03-04 Cobra is approaching the cusp in which its numbers will begin to dwindle from normal usage, and lower mileage cars are becoming a long term investment as they head for storage and a classic status.
This is a special car with a great lineage and is cited by many (Shelby included) as being a milestone that's going to be recognized for years to come.
Condition - When someone in a 2003 stock V6 says their Mustang is in great condition versus someone who says their Terminator is in great shape, you're probably going to be looking over a chasm of difference in the term 'great'. Terminators that are in great shape look new. I mean REALLY new. Normal drivers don't keep their cars looking this good after a month let alone 6 years in service.
Even the ones broadcast on here in fair shape are much better than average. Cobra owners are a discerning bunch, and by and large most of us keep our cars looking better than we keep our own appearance up.
Reliability - The most often cited reason for a premium on price tends to be how reliable the engine really is. This things were built for speed, and most of us have had fantastic luck with the engines we were given. If you stare at the boards long enough you'll begin to panic as you see many people having problems, but they number in the (at most) dozens compared to the hundreds or even thousands of us that don't seem to have much to worry about.
Also remember that you are on a site dedicated to the performance and modification of such a vehicle, and reliability may be compromised if you push too hard or push at all and don't take the right precautions.
These things are BEASTS and there is no vehicle in the same range that can do what this car can do.
Paint - There are a handful of colors that are more equal than others. Orange and Mystichrome tend to be the biggest standouts mostly because of their rarity and their ability to....stand out. Condition of the paint is also a big factor in price, since the paint on Fords is notoriously weak in spots and taking care of your shell can be the difference in a repaint in a year or having it look like it rolled off the showroom floor in ten more years.
Modifications - This is going to undoubtedly be the biggest issue of contention in this post. Owners of cars they modify will sometimes price a vehicle thinking that mods add value to a car. In many cases, mods tend to devalue a vehicle because it shows wear and tear above and beyond OEM specification.
In my experiences, if you are buying a car with modifications or trying to sell one, expect about 20% of what was put into the car to be returned back at the transfer of title. It sucks, but we're not adding wings on to our house. Most new owners prefer cars at stock because it gives them a feeling of security and the ability to craft the car in the image they see fit.
The only exceptions to this tend to be at the high end. If you Whipple the car, remove the entire engine to polish it, or have done such a pristine job with what you've done, you can expect someone to pay a lot more for that car as it is.
Timing - Good luck trying to get a good deal two weeks before spring. Good luck trying to sell your car for 25% over what you paid for it in the middle of February.
If you are patient and not in a hurry, people do part with their cars more often in the winter when the pragmatic side of our brains takes over and we start to wonder if we can use that money elsewhere in our budgets.
You better hurry though, because the first sign of sun slaps us back into Steve McQueen mode and you'd have to pry the steering wheel from our cold, dead hand.
Conclusion - The Terminator is a collector's car and a modder's dream. You can't come here looking for your first car and think you are going to pay the same for a Cobra as your other high school buddy paid for his Z28. You have to be able to look at the points above and decide what you want in your next ride.
If you are looking for something to enjoy for enjoyment's sake, you will stumble across a good deal if you are patient. Expect mileage to be higher than 60k and the wear on the non-mechanical to reflect that. If you are looking for a collectible, you already know what you will be looking for in price and condition, so there isn't much point in offering you advice anyways.
There will always be a little wiggle room in the price but remember to not be offensive in serious offers. Ownership always increase what you think something might be worth. Just remember that something is only worth what others are willing to pay for it.
I purchased my Cobra several months ago and I cannot explain in words how happy this car has made me. The fun I have when I drop the hammer, throw the person next to me back into their seat and watch them go silent because they've never been in anything so fast is just pure sex. Couple that with a community that is nice, well informed, and helpful and you are assured that you will fall in love with your Cobra once you get it.
Good luck!
)
