Got mine installed and did 4 back to back pulls 2nd gear 50mph- 4th gear 150mph and ec temp never went over 180' best mod ive done after mgw shifetr by far.
VMP Triple Pass-Dual Fan Heat Exchanger
- Thread starter Norton
- Start date
Engine coolant? Not what a heat exchanger does. The heat exchanger in our cars cools the coolant going into the intercooler which in turn cools the air passing though it into the engine.
That was my experience as well.
According to VMP above, "the stock tune starts to pull timing before 130F."
You're welcome!
As I said, I'm not an expert but, I believe the 170' tstat and fanned H/E complement each other to decrease coolant temp, head temp, and IAT2. The Intercooler is "surrounded" by engine. Reducing the "surrounding" temp, has got to make the Intercooler and H/E's job easier. My pre-upgrade coolant temps mirrored yours. To be clear, the ~20' F temp difference I mentioned is across the board - coolant, head, and IAT2. Everything runs ~20' F cooler. Since the tstat and H/E were the only changes made, it seems logical to conclude they are the (combined) reason.
No knock inferred. I enjoy learning from discussions like this.
Has anyone in the Southern climates altered the coolant to water mixture; i.e. run 33% coolant/67% water in order to provide more heat transfer since pure water would transfer the most heat?
I'm doing that on my 2006 GT with a Saleen SC. But, I also live in Texas and it doesn't get that cold down here in the winter. 33/67 will hold to zero (0°F).
I also wonder if you could run straight water with just corrosion inhibitor added?
Norton, in a good round number, what does this mod cost?
I'm doing that on my 2006 GT with a Saleen SC. But, I also live in Texas and it doesn't get that cold down here in the winter. 33/67 will hold to zero (0°F).
I also wonder if you could run straight water with just corrosion inhibitor added?
Norton, in a good round number, what does this mod cost?
I am also wondering about running a coolant/water mix that is not 50/50, besides freezing what would be the downside to a coolant/water mix of 30/70 or 40/60?
And just to add another data reference......Been monitoring my IAT2 full time since installing Aeroforce gauges. In Houston summer heat (+100F) IAT2's will be 125-130, however in traffic or if I park and run into a store the IAT2's will be in the 150-160 easily. Upgrading my H/E is the next item on my list after seeing these numbers!
I run distilled water and water weter in the race car and it made a difference. ZERO coolant. Also, if you run track events some facilities do NOT allow coolant in the system. Coolant is like oil when it spills and can make a bad situation worse and clean-up difficult. Spilt water simply evaporates.
Tom
I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything about pusher fans on the stock HE. Since space is tight (according to some but nothing is verified exactly as to how tight the space is) running pusher fans would probably still help and be better than no fan on the stock HE.
At Carlisle this year I looked at VMP's HE since they were there. Yes it's a nice piece and I guess price isn't too bad at $600 or so but US$600=CAN$800 or so at today's exchange rate.
Sorry but that's just too much money to spend for slightly cooler IAT's so that's why I'm thinking of doing fans on the stock HE. I have a brand new stock HE sitting in my basement so this is the part I'll install if I figure out how to get fans on it.
I actually took a pic of the fans on the VMP HE. It's a spal fan with the part # on it. You can buy the fan for like US$60-70 each. I've been looking to see if there are pusher fans the same specs as the VMP puller fans and if I have to put them on the front of the HE that would be the way to go for me.
BTW, I am currently running the Reische 170 stat with adjusted fan settings from the Lund tune I run for the ORX and my coolant temps are cooler than stock (even my oil temp is cooler I have TP), and if I am sitting in heavy traffic the gauges will move up to where they were before the stat and fan setting changes. So yes in heavy traffic I probably will have heat soak but if the car is moving and air is getting through all the coolers I'm sure right now it's better than totally stock. Adding fans (even pusher ones on the stock HE) will be better.
Tony
At Carlisle this year I looked at VMP's HE since they were there. Yes it's a nice piece and I guess price isn't too bad at $600 or so but US$600=CAN$800 or so at today's exchange rate.
Sorry but that's just too much money to spend for slightly cooler IAT's so that's why I'm thinking of doing fans on the stock HE. I have a brand new stock HE sitting in my basement so this is the part I'll install if I figure out how to get fans on it.
I actually took a pic of the fans on the VMP HE. It's a spal fan with the part # on it. You can buy the fan for like US$60-70 each. I've been looking to see if there are pusher fans the same specs as the VMP puller fans and if I have to put them on the front of the HE that would be the way to go for me.
BTW, I am currently running the Reische 170 stat with adjusted fan settings from the Lund tune I run for the ORX and my coolant temps are cooler than stock (even my oil temp is cooler I have TP), and if I am sitting in heavy traffic the gauges will move up to where they were before the stat and fan setting changes. So yes in heavy traffic I probably will have heat soak but if the car is moving and air is getting through all the coolers I'm sure right now it's better than totally stock. Adding fans (even pusher ones on the stock HE) will be better.
Tony
With help from SCGallo setting up my SX4 for monitoring and data logging, I got to watch my IAT2 temps today.
It was 90* F outside. At 60 mph, 2K rpm the IAT2 was about 125*. For some reason I was expecting better temps. I know the 60 mph was doing all the work and the fans are not going to do much until the speeds get real slow or stopped. After stopping and eating, the cooked temps were 149* and I had a few red lights before getting up to speed again. The fans pulled it down to about 138* by the time I got to the on ramp.
I was expecting a lot more of a reduction. On the hwy, the temps IAT1 95*, IAT2 130*. There is a lot of heat in the engine, especially with the Amb at 95*.
A few observations and notes. I have the bottom of my CAI and the outside of the air box covered with that volcanic fiber heat wrap. Also, the temps do drop when the throttle openings are increased, but not into boost.
I did not get to see any boost numbers, traffic was a nightmare.
After getting home, I confirmed the fans were running and the coolant was flowing into the reservoir.
Any chance this is enough info for any kind of comparison? I would like to hear how others H/E are performing.
It was 90* F outside. At 60 mph, 2K rpm the IAT2 was about 125*. For some reason I was expecting better temps. I know the 60 mph was doing all the work and the fans are not going to do much until the speeds get real slow or stopped. After stopping and eating, the cooked temps were 149* and I had a few red lights before getting up to speed again. The fans pulled it down to about 138* by the time I got to the on ramp.
I was expecting a lot more of a reduction. On the hwy, the temps IAT1 95*, IAT2 130*. There is a lot of heat in the engine, especially with the Amb at 95*.
A few observations and notes. I have the bottom of my CAI and the outside of the air box covered with that volcanic fiber heat wrap. Also, the temps do drop when the throttle openings are increased, but not into boost.
I did not get to see any boost numbers, traffic was a nightmare.
After getting home, I confirmed the fans were running and the coolant was flowing into the reservoir.
Any chance this is enough info for any kind of comparison? I would like to hear how others H/E are performing.
Last edited:
I think you're always going to see IAT2s going up while you're in boost. Boost generates a lot of heat. What I was referring to is high IAT2s under idle or cruise and going into boost, you should see a pretty significant drop in IAT2. If you don't, your intercooler/heat exhanger isn't doing much for you. Part throttle takes up a good chunk of the accelerator pedal. If you're producing some amount of engine vacuum, chances are the by-pass is not completely closed. As vacuum decreases, the by-pass valve will start closing and the more it closes, a greater amount of airflow that is being diverted to the intercooler. But as long as your mixing the two, you won't be receiving the optimal effect of the intercooler.
Almost all ECU decisions are based on tables, and in the case of spark retard, a multiplier. In this case the multipiers are fractions. As to how much timing is getting pulled, on my 2012, timing starts getting pulled over 100* IAT2. Under high load, 3* of timing is getting pulled @ 125* and 6* are being pulled at 150*. This is the factory programming. Most turners will probably modify the settings to pull timing after 125*. Why 125*? It's one of the x coordinate set points in the primary table.
Last edited:
Glad to see this thread!! Temps have been in the mid 90s here and my IAT2 has been hitting up to 145! I have been wondering what route I should go. Considered the Killer chiller. Temps are crazy low on that, maybe even too low? Installation is more complex too.
How much does the supercharger heat the air when not under boost? Answer: 0
How much do fans cool the intake charge when the car is stationary and at idle? : Answer: 0
How much do fans contribute to cooling when the car is under boost moving at 100 mph? Answer: 0
How much does the IC system contribute to engine cooling? Answer: 0
How much more cooling area does a triple bypass radiator of the same size have over a single pass rad? Answer: 0
On the Terminator side its pretty well understood an aftermarket HE doesn’t lower IA2 temps much on a system the doesn’t get very hot to begin with (seldom gets above luke warm driving on the street). The GT500 HE is twice as large as the Cobra unit which is better but it’s very hard for the system to shed BTU’s when it doesn’t get very hot to begin with. I have a liquid cooled computer with 3 copper radiators and the “hot side” and the ”cold side” of the rad is never more than a 2° difference even with the fans on high. A 20-30° deduction in IA2 temp is huge which means the factory HE is horribly inefficient which I have a hard time believing. You can hang 2 HE onto the car and I doubt it would lower the coolant temp by more than a few degrees when the system does not get much hotter than ambient to begin with. The only way to really lower the intake temps is to install a Killer Chiller system which is the only real effective way to do it.
Knowing how big the GT500 HE is compared to the Terminator and how well that system worked on that car I would leave the factory HE in place and spend the money elsewhere.
How much do fans cool the intake charge when the car is stationary and at idle? : Answer: 0
How much do fans contribute to cooling when the car is under boost moving at 100 mph? Answer: 0
How much does the IC system contribute to engine cooling? Answer: 0
How much more cooling area does a triple bypass radiator of the same size have over a single pass rad? Answer: 0
On the Terminator side its pretty well understood an aftermarket HE doesn’t lower IA2 temps much on a system the doesn’t get very hot to begin with (seldom gets above luke warm driving on the street). The GT500 HE is twice as large as the Cobra unit which is better but it’s very hard for the system to shed BTU’s when it doesn’t get very hot to begin with. I have a liquid cooled computer with 3 copper radiators and the “hot side” and the ”cold side” of the rad is never more than a 2° difference even with the fans on high. A 20-30° deduction in IA2 temp is huge which means the factory HE is horribly inefficient which I have a hard time believing. You can hang 2 HE onto the car and I doubt it would lower the coolant temp by more than a few degrees when the system does not get much hotter than ambient to begin with. The only way to really lower the intake temps is to install a Killer Chiller system which is the only real effective way to do it.
Knowing how big the GT500 HE is compared to the Terminator and how well that system worked on that car I would leave the factory HE in place and spend the money elsewhere.
You can't compare the 4.6 Terminator motor to the 5.4 Condor/5.8 Trinity motor. These motors generate a lot more BTU's not to mentions the engine bay airflow differences.
All good food for thought, but most not relevant. How did the terminator get into this. I thought we were on the 13/14 Shelby H/E upgrade and performance.
No one is going to hang 2 H/E's, just trying to work with what we have.
I have read that the 13/14 H/E is very good, caveat, as long as you are moving. Next step, add fans, no room on stock, change the H/E to a fan cooled model.
I have been impressed with reports of what the Killer Chiller does. It seems like there were some problems with getting the product out and the threads dried up.
I jumped on the fan cooled H/E, just before finding out about the KC.
From what I saw today on the temps. I might get one good pass in before the heat starts to pull timing.
Heat production is a byproduct of how much power the engine is producing. A 4.6 boosted to 1000 hp will make more heat than a Trinity engine at 700.
My post was addressing the effectiveness of the IC system not how hot the engine gets.
What was stated applies to any supercharged car not just Mustangs. The 4.6 is largely just a smaller version of the GT500 mill that's why they call them mod motors.
Who hangs 2 HE's on a Shelby? Why bother it won't do much to lower IA2 even doubling the radiator capacity which is exactly what I was getting at in the first place.
The IC system is only needed when moving not when the car is waiting at a light. Adding fans to GT500 IC system when under boost will be like someone whispering in you ear out in a Hurricane. The breeze the fans make and over a limited rad area will pale by comparison of the volume of air getting forced thru the HE at speed where its needed the most. I would imagine at higher speeds the fans will actually impede airflow thru the HE.
The Killer Chill will actually make HP that you can feel as it chills below ambient :rockon: That system is where you spend your money if you really want to lower the intake air temps.
Here's the last I've seen: http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...iller-Chiller-installed-in-my-2013&highlight=
Anyone have any IAT numbers with the stock H/E on a 13/14? I would like to see how my VMP compares.
The most accurate way to do that is back-to-back testing on the same car. I can't imagine the VMP unit will not do much better then the factory unit.
Last edited:
FWIW, I was data logging the other day (103 degrees w/48% RH) and averaged 136.45 degrees on IAT2 with the stock H/E.
I have no data logs, but I do know what I observed in my car (pre-upgrade) over the past few years and what I see now (post-upgrade). As reported previously in this thread, coolant temp, head temp, and IAT2 all run pretty consistently ~20' F cooler following the upgrade. I couldn't hot-lap at last year's PPAA and CO Mile. I did, more than once, this year before temps called for cool-off period. With ambient temp over 90' yesterday, I noted "cooked" IAT2 (after stopping/shutting the engine off for ~15min) was ~160'. With no red lights on my ~2 mile drive back to the highway, the VMP H/E pulled IAT2 down to ~125'. (Scientific? Not really. Am I happy with my purchase? Definitely!)
It's also worth considering that trusted experts like Revan and VMP recommend fanned H/Es for improved cooling.
Users who are viewing this thread
