Could the new S550 outperform Chevys new C7 for nearly half the cost?

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

Chevy has a full year and a year and a half to plan on crushing the Mustang. I'm NO Chevy guy but isnt the head engineer of Chevy on record as saying that he will fight for every HP and that Chevy won't be beat in the area of performance. I expect Chevy to bump the Vettes HP and there will be plenty of room for them to come out with a Monster Camaro. I won't buy one regardless but let's not be delusional. Chevy is gunning for Ford and they have the engine and chassis to do it...The government loaned them plenty of money to set them up fr success. Thats part of the reason I won't even think about owning one.

Remember - This too shall pass which makes a happy man sad and a sad man happy.

And because he said it, it's going to happen? Is he the Nostradamus of the automotive world?? Of course they are gunning for Ford, who else are they really going to "gun" for?? Ford leads the way when it comes to pony cars.

Are you saying Ford should just stall for 4 years and wait for the new Camaro to release in '16 before releasing the new mustang? This way it too can "plan to crush" the camaro? When the '10 camaro came out, chevy had 5 YEARS to "plan to crush" the mustang of the time. And did it??


Also, of the mid cycle engine updates. Chevy does not do them. They seem to just come out with a new generation after 5-8 years.

I agree that Chevy has a good engine and good chassis... but so does the mustang. If one wins over the other, it will likely be by fractions. There will be no "crushing". Atleast, not when it comes to base type models. As for high end models, I dont see chevy throwing in a trinity quality engine into any camaro.

 

[mustangletback]

And because he said it, it's going to happen? Is he the Nostradamus of the automotive world?? Of course they are gunning for Ford, who else are they really going to "gun" for?? Ford leads the way when it comes to pony cars.

Are you saying Ford should just stall for 4 years and wait for the new Camaro to release in '16 before releasing the new mustang? This way it too can "plan to crush" the camaro? When the '10 camaro came out, chevy had 5 YEARS to "plan to crush" the mustang of the time. And did it??


Also, of the mid cycle engine updates. Chevy does not do them. They seem to just come out with a new generation after 5-8 years.

I agree that Chevy has a good engine and good chassis... but so does the mustang. If one wins over the other, it will likely be by fractions. There will be no "crushing". Atleast, not when it comes to base type models. As for high end models, I dont see chevy throwing in a trinity quality engine into any camaro.

not only that,do you remember when al said based on their simulations that the zl1 would beat the GT500 to 60?we know that didnt happen.then the hype about the 'RING time how it was faster and all of that talk.when the video came out about the time that the GT500 put out,those forums on camaro5 were taken down when it was seen that the GT500 is faster around the track.all al does is look more and more stupid every time he runs his Government Motors mouth.:dancenana:

 

[Tbonez3858]

And because he said it, it's going to happen? Is he the Nostradamus of the automotive world?? Of course they are gunning for Ford, who else are they really going to "gun" for?? Ford leads the way when it comes to pony cars.

Are you saying Ford should just stall for 4 years and wait for the new Camaro to release in '16 before releasing the new mustang? This way it too can "plan to crush" the camaro? When the '10 camaro came out, chevy had 5 YEARS to "plan to crush" the mustang of the time. And did it??


Also, of the mid cycle engine updates. Chevy does not do them. They seem to just come out with a new generation after 5-8 years.

I agree that Chevy has a good engine and good chassis... but so does the mustang. If one wins over the other, it will likely be by fractions. There will be no "crushing". Atleast, not when it comes to base type models. As for high end models, I dont see chevy throwing in a trinity quality engine into any camaro.

He isn't Nostradamus but lets be honest he has big chunk of control to make it happen. If someone gave you your competitors product to design and test against for a full year do you think you could beat them?

In closing we aren't talking about the last model. Chevy has had to eat crow in virtually every review of the current models. The Mustang is significantly better than the current Camaro. I'm sure the taste of that isn't setting to well with them. In addition I will state once again that Chevy has the chassis and engine to crush Ford. We wont even talk about VD or magnetic shocks...Admitting anything less is nothing more than just being a fan boy to me (thats my opinion). Will Chevy do it, who knows. In the comparing the new Mustang to Vette is silly to me when the Camaro is waiting in the wings...If you take my comments as I'm a Camaro fan you are sadly mistaken.

 

[GrayGhost Dog]

He isn't Nostradamus but lets be honest he has big chunk of control to make it happen. If someone gave you your competitors product to design and test against for a full year do you think you could beat them?

In closing we aren't talking about the last model. Chevy has had to eat crow in virtually every review of the current models. The Mustang is significantly better than the current Camaro. I'm sure the taste of that isn't setting to well with them. In addition I will state once again that Chevy has the chassis and engine to crush Ford. We wont even talk about VD or magnetic shocks...Admitting anything less is nothing more than just being a fan boy to me (thats my opinion). Will Chevy do it, who knows. In the comparing the new Mustang to Vette is silly to me when the Camaro is waiting in the wings...If you take my comments as I'm a Camaro fan you are sadly mistaken.

It's very easy for them to just sit back and FOLLOW someone else's LEAD... That is their m.o. First off, they have a significant amount of weight reduction to deal with. I find it difficult to believe that they will offer an LT1 motor kicking more hp/tq then the new C7 'vette, unless they do a power bump to the C7 in 2016, as well. Is it confirmed that they will drop an LT1-based engine in the next-gen Camaro? If so, that would be very cool. They need to really do something with the Camaro's interior, please!!! Magnetic Selective Ride Control is an option on the C7... very much doubt they will offer this on a base/SS/1LE-type model. Last, but not least, you believe Chevy has the chassis to crush Ford because of the ATS-based chassis will be the underpinning for the next-gen Camaro? I didn't know we already knew how the 2015 S550 suspension will perform.

Too much speculation... I think I understand why Ford has kept some info for later. So far, I really like what I see. Furthermore, the C7 'vette is just on another level. They did some serious work with that beast!

 

[germeezy1]

Lets face it....today....Al. O has a worse car in some ways that outsells the Mustang....so moving forward he will have more leverage to make the Alpha based Camaro even better. I have paid close attention to the LT1, and for those of us who study engines we realize that the LT1 has a lot more left on the table. There is another half point to a point of SCR just left on the table for the taking if a future 5.0 brings the fight to GM.

Keep in mind that the 1LE Camaro for far less money has beaten the Boss on certain tracks, and that the 5.0s advantage over an LS3 Camaro would be erased if the cars weighed the same.

Ford if anything would be following GM's lead if their goal is to be close to the C7 in performance but I do not believe that the Mustang will be.

 

[khell]

I think a lot of people are going to be in for a huge surprise when the new camaro comes out on the alpha platform and its weight is maybe a 100 lbs less. The current ATS with the 4 cylinder comes in at 3400+ lbs. So you think slapping a V8 and appropriate drivetrain components to take that kind of horsepower is going to not add any weight? I'm guessing that the new camaro will come in at about a 100 lbs more than the current mustang. They're not going to use the same weight saving materials as in the ATS.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Lets face it....today....Al. O has a worse car in some ways that outsells the Mustang....so moving forward he will have more leverage to make the Alpha based Camaro even better. I have paid close attention to the LT1, and for those of us who study engines we realize that the LT1 has a lot more left on the table. There is another half point to a point of SCR just left on the table for the taking if a future 5.0 brings the fight to GM.

Keep in mind that the 1LE Camaro for far less money has beaten the Boss on certain tracks, and that the 5.0s advantage over an LS3 Camaro would be erased if the cars weighed the same.

Ford if anything would be following GM's lead if their goal is to be close to the C7 in performance but I do not believe that the Mustang will be.

"Outsells" isn't quite accurate, the Camaro will only beat the 2014 Mustang by a few hundred units and only because of an extended shutdown at Flat Rock this summer. This is with a slightly refreshed S197 that is in its 10th MY of production.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

For me the performance bla bla bla is mute, I like the new stang a lot more than anything out or coming out in that price point. I'd rather buy what stirs my passions vs what's the quickest in xyz capacity for model year abc in price point def, that stuff won't matter 3 years later as performance has a way of evolving. If it does so much for anyone, then buy a single turbo kit, some sticker tires, mm suspension, and have at it until the next target comes out. Been there, done it with my 03 and guess what, I have the most fun with that car when I just drive it vs race and beat the piss out of it to one up a this or that or another xyz car.

Buy a car for the feelings it gives you, if you shop merely on performance, you'll quickly feel buyers remorse when the latest and greatest techno wiz car outperforms it.

IMO anyways. I plan to cam, full exhaust and dyno tune plus sticky bfg rival, hawk pad, and maybe mm suspend a 15 or 16 gt pretty quickly after buying it, not because I wanna beat this or that or the other car, but because I wanna have a fun daily driver that speaks to me everytime I hop in even if it's just to nab milk at the market. I like that track focused feel, not because it's 3.2 seconds faster than an ss camaro around whogivesa**** raceway park, but because I enjoy it. If it hit easy 11.50's, hot laps this or that time, etc won't matter to me near as much. I just wanna enjoy the hell out of my car and still knock out 25mpg+ in a spirited, luxurious (for me anyways) daily driver.

The stock gt will have very high performance if it's lapping faster than a boss in gt trim, relax and put the ego aside and enjoy the damn car. Make it what you want and drive it to enjoy it, not to brag or complain about how it's .97863754 seconds quicker or slower than this that or the other

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

Lets face it....today....Al. O has a worse car in some ways that outsells the Mustang....so moving forward he will have more leverage to make the Alpha based Camaro even better. I have paid close attention to the LT1, and for those of us who study engines we realize that the LT1 has a lot more left on the table. There is another half point to a point of SCR just left on the table for the taking if a future 5.0 brings the fight to GM.

Keep in mind that the 1LE Camaro for far less money has beaten the Boss on certain tracks, and that the 5.0s advantage over an LS3 Camaro would be erased if the cars weighed the same.

Ford if anything would be following GM's lead if their goal is to be close to the C7 in performance but I do not believe that the Mustang will be.

The LT1 may have more on the table (every engine does), but GM has a history of not making tweaks to their v8's. Look how many revisions the LS1, LS2, and LS3 went through in their life cycles.

And Ford is not following GM's lead in trying to match the C7's performance. The C7 is a whole different class of car, a true sports car with much less compremise (the C7 doesn't even have crash test ratings). The differences are obvious.

Its commendable that the mustang will offer and compete with a pure bread sports car like that.

 

[Tbonez3858]

It's very easy for them to just sit back and FOLLOW someone else's LEAD... That is their m.o. First off, they have a significant amount of weight reduction to deal with. I find it difficult to believe that they will offer an LT1 motor kicking more hp/tq then the new C7 'vette, unless they do a power bump to the C7 in 2016, as well. Is it confirmed that they will drop an LT1-based engine in the next-gen Camaro? If so, that would be very cool. They need to really do something with the Camaro's interior, please!!! Magnetic Selective Ride Control is an option on the C7... very much doubt they will offer this on a base/SS/1LE-type model. Last, but not least, you believe Chevy has the chassis to crush Ford because of the ATS-based chassis will be the underpinning for the next-gen Camaro? I didn't know we already knew how the 2015 S550 suspension will perform.

Too much speculation... I think I understand why Ford has kept some info for later. So far, I really like what I see. Furthermore, the C7 'vette is just on another level. They did some serious work with that beast!

I agree on almost all points..There is a great deal up in the air. It's all speculation even a great deal from the Ford side. We do now that if the assumptions accurate Ford has a great deal on their hands to deal with...I'm going to buy a mustang regardless because of many factors.

 

[germeezy1]

"Outsells" isn't quite accurate, the Camaro will only beat the 2014 Mustang by a few hundred units and only because of an extended shutdown at Flat Rock this summer. This is with a slightly refreshed S197 that is in its 10th MY of production.

This will actually be the 4th year in a row that GM with a much worse car will outsell the Mustang. Also through November the Camaro is only 4000 units ahead so it makes perfect sense that the Mustang will gain 3700 units on the Camaro in December.

:dw::dw:

The LT1 may have more on the table (every engine does), but GM has a history of not making tweaks to their v8's. Look how many revisions the LS1, LS2, and LS3 went through in their life cycles.

And Ford is not following GM's lead in trying to match the C7's performance. The C7 is a whole different class of car, a true sports car with much less compremise (the C7 doesn't even have crash test ratings). The differences are obvious.

Its commendable that the mustang will offer and compete with a pure bread sports car like that.

At this point it is only speculation that the Mustang will compete with the C7, and the truth is everything points to the C7 offering far more than even the specs show. Look at the history of GM V8's , and realize that Ford just caught up in 2011 as far as naturally aspirated engines are concerned. Ford offering pony cars buyers 260 flywheel 4.6 2V HP at a time where GM offered 300 rwhp in its pony car was not that far in the past.

For me the performance bla bla bla is mute, I like the new stang a lot more than anything out or coming out in that price point. I'd rather buy what stirs my passions vs what's the quickest in xyz capacity for model year abc in price point def, that stuff won't matter 3 years later as performance has a way of evolving. If it does so much for anyone, then buy a single turbo kit, some sticker tires, mm suspension, and have at it until the next target comes out. Been there, done it with my 03 and guess what, I have the most fun with that car when I just drive it vs race and beat the piss out of it to one up a this or that or another xyz car.

Buy a car for the feelings it gives you, if you shop merely on performance, you'll quickly feel buyers remorse when the latest and greatest techno wiz car outperforms it.

IMO anyways. I plan to cam, full exhaust and dyno tune plus sticky bfg rival, hawk pad, and maybe mm suspend a 15 or 16 gt pretty quickly after buying it, not because I wanna beat this or that or the other car, but because I wanna have a fun daily driver that speaks to me everytime I hop in even if it's just to nab milk at the market. I like that track focused feel, not because it's 3.2 seconds faster than an ss camaro around whogivesa**** raceway park, but because I enjoy it. If it hit easy 11.50's, hot laps this or that time, etc won't matter to me near as much. I just wanna enjoy the hell out of my car and still knock out 25mpg+ in a spirited, luxurious (for me anyways) daily driver.

The stock gt will have very high performance if it's lapping faster than a boss in gt trim, relax and put the ego aside and enjoy the damn car. Make it what you want and drive it to enjoy it, not to brag or complain about how it's .97863754 seconds quicker or slower than this that or the other

It won't need MM suspension, and I believe that the new S550 platform will render complete suspension rethinks a thing of the past.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

This will actually be the 4th year in a row that GM with a much worse car will outsell the Mustang. Also through November the Camaro is only 4000 units ahead so it makes perfect sense that the Mustang will gain 3700 units on the Camaro in December.

:dw::dw:



At this point it is only speculation that the Mustang will compete with the C7, and the truth is everything points to the C7 offering far more than even the specs show. Look at the history of GM V8's , and realize that Ford just caught up in 2011 as far as naturally aspirated engines are concerned. Ford offering pony cars buyers 260 flywheel 4.6 2V HP at a time where GM offered 300 rwhp in its pony car was not that far in the past.



It won't need MM suspension, and I believe that the new S550 platform will render complete suspension rethinks a thing of the past.

Quit living in the past, GM isn't exactly clean itself. Ford was offering a 375rwhp pony car as far back as '03 while GM took OVER 10 years to top. A DECADE TO TOP.

The fact from '03-'09 Ford offered a pony car while GM offered... a cavalier?

 

[germeezy1]

Quit living in the past, GM isn't exactly clean itself. Ford was offering a 375rwhp pony car as far back as '03 while GM took OVER 10 years to top. A DECADE TO TOP.

The fact from '03-'09 Ford offered a pony car while GM offered... a cavalier?

TODAY as we speak the Camaro....is 4,000 units ahead of the Mustang YTD...with a product that is easily shaded by the Mustang in many ways.

But my point is simply that I believe that GM will definitely bring the battle to Ford, and if the Barracuda rumors are true we will have access to the 3 nest pony cars ever built IMO.

Also have you ever heard of a car called the Corvette? I am sure you have seen its tail lights from far ahead of you.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

TODAY as we speak the Camaro....is 4,000 units ahead of the Mustang YTD...with a product that is easily shaded by the Mustang in many ways.

But my point is simply that I believe that GM will definitely bring the battle to Ford, and if the Barracuda rumors are true we will have access to the 3 nest pony cars ever built IMO.

Also have you ever heard of a car called the Corvette? I am sure you have seen its tail lights from far ahead of you.

Really, I have never lost to a race to a corvette. I have only raced two tho, they hardly ever go to the track (I hardly make it out to the track either). I have seen one fast one tho, a procharged C5.

I agree that GM is going to "bring it", just as Ford is too. Should be a good battle.

 

[germeezy1]

Also I think that the C7 has changed the game in many ways, and that the GT will not directly compete with the C7.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

Also I think that the C7 has changed the game in many ways, and that the GT will not directly compete with the C7.

How has it "changed the game" in ANY way?

I know for a fact the GT will not directly compete with C7. A high end specialty mustang may be able to compete (not necessarily beat) with it in some capacities however.

 

[germeezy1]

How has it "changed the game" in ANY way?

I know for a fact the GT will not directly compete with C7. A high end specialty mustang may be able to compete (not necessarily beat) with it in some capacities however.

If you don't already know than nothing I could tell you would make you understand.

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

If you don't already know than nothing I could tell you would make you understand.

Haha nice cop out!!

Obviously the C7 is STILL a great performance bargain. NOT A GAME CHANGER as you elevate it to (LOL), just the continued evolution of Americas sports cat in the form of a great performance bargain. Nothing revolutionary, but I'd own one if I could justify it.

 

[cobra916]

Haha nice cop out!!

Obviously the C7 is STILL a great performance bargain. NOT A GAME CHANGER as you elevate it to (LOL), just the continued evolution of Americas sports cat in the form of a great performance bargain. Nothing revolutionary, but I'd own one if I could justify it.

he didnt cop out... its just hard to talk to someone that knows everything..

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

he didnt cop out... its just hard to talk to someone that knows everything..

Ok I admit, I'm wrong. The GT will compete at a high level in all facets directly with the C7, its closest obvious competitor. I was blinded by common sense and logic in the past, but have now come to grips with this flawed way of thinking and now see the light. Please forgive me.

If you read my post, I agreed with all his points. Except for the C7 being a "game changer". He may have been able to pursuade me on some lost obscure facts about the C7 that make it a "game changer", but that never came to fruition.