Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?

[Fourcam380]

?

C7Z uses a 1.7L?

You're right lt4 = 1740. Brain fart, was thinking of the ls9 zr1 with the 2.3 tvs.

The point still rings true though. If we are looking at a 700hp car it doesn't need more oem blower than this.

 

[Snoopy49]

First I heard of this size restrictions. I don't really believe it either as AMG had the 6.2 v8, 5.5 v12, 6.0 v12, Bentley 6.0 v12.

A quick check said that there is no size restriction but the is an extra tax on the size.

At lot of the world charges import duties, license and taxes directly related to displacement. The bigger the engine the bigger the taxes.

 

[DHG1078]

First I heard of this size restrictions. I don't really believe it either as AMG had the 6.2 v8, 5.5 v12, 6.0 v12, Bentley 6.0 v12.

A quick check said that there is no size restriction but the is an extra tax on the size.

Correct, and that extra tax can be impractical for most vehicles. Only time auto manufacturers will "disregard" the increased tax for consumers is when its targeted at the very wealthy.

That is one thing I "like" about how the US handles it. We don't care about how big, just meet x, y, and z requirements. Although small engine sizes makes it easier.

 

[SNISTR1]

I really hope it's a monster that goes well beyond 700. I think anything less would be a huge let down. Especially considering that a stage3 roush on a 5.0 platform is already at 670. I suppose only time will tell.


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[DHG1078]

I really hope it's a monster that goes well beyond 700. I think anything less would be a huge let down. Especially considering that a stage3 roush on a 5.0 platform is already at 670. I suppose only time will tell.


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We shall see. Part of why the 13/14 GT500 "only" hit 662 crank was because Ford claimed they were melting valves or cats depending on what they did to get more power. It just generated too much heat.

Obviously its possible to get more power with the hellcat and demon trouncing the GT500. If Ford decides to take the GT500 along the ZL1 1LE route as an ultimate track car, we may not see a big power boost over the last gen.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

9psi from what? Did anyone elaborate? That matters a lot as 9psi from say twin 57s will equate to a different, and in this case, greater total mass of air moved as say 9psi from a 2.3 tvs.

Due to the old 4.6 based architecture there's really not a ton of room between bores to seal a coyote and even less to do the same with a voodoo with extra 2mm of bore.

Honestly if the goal was 2600hp @ 44psi with twin 72s with FI I'd take a 4.6 just because at those HP levels meat between bores or sealing area is a prized commodity, and because it's been done to prove the design works.

The vastly improved higher flowing with better velocity all around than any 4.6 head coyote and voodoo heads become much less of an advantage as soon as we figure boost into the application. Boost is an outstanding band aid for short comings in design such as a small bore, small shrouded valves and small valve seat and curtain area.
Also mitigating the port angle factor.

Basically a longblock is to a FI app what a short block is to a NA app--its job is no longer to make power the blower or turbo does that, just has to hold together.

Anyway to answer your question apart from the answers already given... 9psi I don't see an issue with. That said if the car came with twins I'd personally much prefer a 5.0 to a 5.2 for these reasons even if it meant having a less unique power plant.

Great post! Thanks for your response. I think it was 9-psi from a TVS if I'm not mistaken but I don't clearly remember if he specified or not.

 

[SlowSVT]

The announcement of the Demon threw Ford GT500 program into a tailspin as that will be a tall hurdle to overcome which may have put the whole GT500 program in jeopardy. If Ford was to top the power of the Demon it would likely need to be turbocharged to overcome it's smaller displacement and my understanding is Ford does not have an engine platform capable of reliably holding anything north of 700 hp let alone the 800 hp of it competitors engine.

I hope I'm wrong about this. The Demon may be a "bridge too far" for Ford to follow with regard to the investment needed to compete for Top Dog status on a very limited production car. The bean counters are funneling all the resources toward hybrid, electric and autonomous vehicles which is where the money wil be made. I stopped leaving the porch light on for an announcement from Ford. Who knows? the Last GT500 may have already been made.

 

[Lawrenzo]

Why even bother to go chasing the Demon? It's a one trick pony. Make a lighter, more maneuverable GT500 than the last iteration and be thankful. Target the ZL-1 1LE and it should be fine. I'm frankly losing patience and have already got a local quote from an incoming 1LE. Ford needs to get on the stick in a hurry, or I'll likely to go to the dark side.

 

[Shaker1]

I agree Lawrenzo!

Does the GT500 require 808 HP if it weighs 500 lbs less than the Demon?

Is it possible or conceivable that the next GT500 could weigh 3750 or less w/auto trans?

Wouldn't a 3750 lb GT500 with 725 HP have a better power to weigh ratio than a 4250 lb Demon with 808? Or an even heavier Hellcat with 707.

Wouldn't a 3750 lb GT500 with 725 HP handle better or equal to a Hellcat or ZL1 (in theory)?

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Stock Trinity's with driver mod hang with stock a8 hellcats from a roll and slowly walk manual hellcats (with or without a good driver). That's a 5 year old car with 662hp and 3820lbs to move around.

My guess is we'll see something in the ballpark of 750hp in the new gt500. In a 3800lbs car, that's easy 135mph trap speed power to weight, shave it down to 3725-3750, Jack the power to 775-800, maybe 140.

Thing is it doesn't need to have all that from the factory. The demon is $86k and a singularity. Ford knows that mustang drag strip guys will buy or swap on slicks, get a race gas tune, and uncork the exhaust themselves. They've done so since 1964/1/2. Doing so is not going to lose its luster now.

I think if you look at a gt350r, you see a 3650lbs car. Add 75-100lbs of blower and chassis support, maybe shed 30-75lbs with possible carbon fiber or aluminum pieces here and there, add in the interior and you have a 3750lbs car.

This garbage that a 2.3 or 2.6L supercharger isn't enough to get a 5.0 to 750hp is laughable.

Ford put 15psi into the 5.8. The 5.0 or a custom cpc 5.2 or the venerable voodoo 5.2 are all well past 900hp with 15psi.

14.7psi=1 atmosphere.
5.0=460hp
5.2 aluminator=570hp
5.2 voodoo =526hp

460*2=920hp
570*2=1140hp
526*2=1052hp

Apply any amount of belt slip, heat sink, durability safety, and Martha Stewert tax you want, 750-800hp is easy.

The na 5.8 isn't exactly an all star starting point, to be polite. That mill made an honest 675hp+/- with 15psi from a 2.3l blower.

Anyways all the bench racing is just lost time and energy. I was pretty sure ford would do great with the mustang gt, and they have. 460hp and all. Seeing that, I can see ford is strong on the performance side of things. I'll wait patiently to see what comes in 18. I'd buy a 1le zl1 xyz pdq abc as quickly as I'd buy a government backed ice cream shop franchise. They took a bailout and tried to go in on the government overtake globalist scheme; get in early, no dice for my buck.

 

[13COBRA]

Ford needs to get on the stick in a hurry, or I'll likely to go to the dark side.

Great story bro.

 

[ZYBORG]

Stock Trinity's with driver mod hang with stock a8 hellcats from a roll and slowly walk manual hellcats (with or without a good driver). That's a 5 year old car with 662hp and 3820lbs to move around.

My guess is we'll see something in the ballpark of 750hp in the new gt500. In a 3800lbs car, that's easy 135mph trap speed power to weight, shave it down to 3725-3750, Jack the power to 775-800, maybe 140.

Thing is it doesn't need to have all that from the factory. The demon is $86k and a singularity. Ford knows that mustang drag strip guys will buy or swap on slicks, get a race gas tune, and uncork the exhaust themselves. They've done so since 1964/1/2. Doing so is not going to lose its luster now.

I think if you look at a gt350r, you see a 3650lbs car. Add 75-100lbs of blower and chassis support, maybe shed 30-75lbs with possible carbon fiber or aluminum pieces here and there, add in the interior and you have a 3750lbs car.

This garbage that a 2.3 or 2.6L supercharger isn't enough to get a 5.0 to 750hp is laughable.

Ford put 15psi into the 5.8. The 5.0 or a custom cpc 5.2 or the venerable voodoo 5.2 are all well past 900hp with 15psi.

14.7psi=1 atmosphere.
5.0=460hp
5.2 aluminator=570hp
5.2 voodoo =526hp

460*2=920hp
570*2=1140hp
526*2=1052hp

Apply any amount of belt slip, heat sink, durability safety, and Martha Stewert tax you want, 750-800hp is easy.

The na 5.8 isn't exactly an all star starting point, to be polite. That mill made an honest 675hp+/- with 15psi from a 2.3l blower.

Anyways all the bench racing is just lost time and energy. I was pretty sure ford would do great with the mustang gt, and they have. 460hp and all. Seeing that, I can see ford is strong on the performance side of things. I'll wait patiently to see what comes in 18. I'd buy a 1le zl1 xyz pdq abc as quickly as I'd buy a government backed ice cream shop franchise. They took a bailout and tried to go in on the government overtake globalist scheme; get in early, no dice for my buck.

Are you the pill 2?

 

[Recon]

Wish they'd at least give us something. This hush hush nonsense is getting old. I just want to know what engine and what power adder, I'd be satisfied with that.

 

[gimmie11s]

My guess is we'll see something in the ballpark of 750hp in the new gt500. In a 3800lbs car, that's easy 135mph trap speed power to weight, shave it down to 3725-3750, Jack the power to 775-800, maybe 140.

I LOL'd. 775-800 crank HP for a 3950 car (with driver) to crack 140 mph. Very doubtful even in hero conditions--which you certainly dont approve of based on your past Demon comments.

So stop it already.

This garbage that a 2.3 or 2.6L supercharger isn't enough to get a 5.0 to 750hp is laughable..........

........The na 5.8 isn't exactly an all star starting point, to be polite. That mill made an honest 675hp+/- with 15psi from a 2.3l blower....

Absolutely agree with all of this.

The 5.4/5.8 is a tired, old-news desgin that wont get carried to a next gen GT500. No chance in hell. Not when there are MUCH better starting points in the 5.0/5.2 genre of motors.

 

[SVTPete83]

https://drivetribe.com/p/upcoming-m...campaign=GTN&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=network


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[SVTPete83]

5.0 and the new tvs is what motor trend is going to publish in its new car issue.


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[SVTPete83]

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[1 Alibi 2]

662 ( crank ) in 2014.................wait ( 5 MY's ) = 680 ??????

 

[gimmie11s]

5.0 and the new tvs is what motor trend is going to publish in its new car issue.

Yep.. that's what most are expecting. Will be a bad ass machine if true. That Eaton 2650 is going to be beast.

 

[Eatonualive281]

A supercharged Coyote... How Excitingggggggg