99 4V vs 01 2V???

[vettez062002]

crank your boost up, brake boost him and youll be out

 

[SPoole]

I have a large intercooler from a ProCharger system.

 

[rocket5979]

Search my name, you will see I've owned/driven quite a few turbo cars.

You are talking about 2,500-3,500rpms. Who gives a crap about that? Do you race at 3,500rpms? Not only did I have more than 1 turbo car but I also own a Procharged Cobra that at one time had a P1SC on it and 4.30 rear gears. Anything that tells you a centri blower has lag simply doesn't know what they are talking about. I've raced plenty of Mustangs (03 Cobras) that made a shit more torque than me and I had no problem with them at all. A well setup centri blown car with the CORRECT rear gears is nothing to sneeze at. And given both these cars make the same power and the Cobra has 4.10 gears it will not be easy on the turbo car. Not only does the centri car have no lag from the start but between shifts the car doesn't have to spool back up. Now you are right, a good turbo system will not have much lag...but it will still have some lag. The blower car will have 0.

Also another great thing about centri blowers is it is alot like N/A power. You don't have the sudden burst of power the turbo has. This makes it MUCH more easy to get traction.

The power and torque come on allot sooner in the turbo and you are damn right that what power & torque you make at 2,500-3,500 rpms matters one hell of allot; especially in a dig race.

I have owned centri blown cars before too and I can tell you that the turbo cars will pull one hell of allot harder in the midrange than the centri on relatively equal setups. Let alone that the GT guy has at least a 200 lb weight advantage.

You are right that a well setup centri car is nothing to sneeze at, and I never said they were, but these two cars were mentioned to have the same peak power at 600rwhp. So peak power is not an "x factor" here. But we all know that the turbo will come on one hell of allot harder in the mid range and also not really fall off on the top end either as long as his compressor is big enough to flow on the top end and his turbine housing isn't sized so small that it chokes the exhaust on the big end.

You do realize that with a manual turbo car as long as you have a BOV installed you don't have to respool once you complete the shift. The BOV allows the compressor wheel to freespool while shifting and then come back damn near immediately into boost once you step back onto the gas. And that is assuming granny shifting. Power shifting is a different matter altogether.

Plain and simply if those cars are making similar power at peak, and both have equal rubber under them, and similar drivers, then the turbo car will take the win. Stopsign you are an idiot if you think that just because the OP's car is a 4v that it somehow has an advantage here. The dude has a friggin 200+ lb weight disadvantage too. You may have owned turbo cars and centri blown cars before but it is obvious that you still have allot to learn here. :lol:

 

[Grant Theft Auto]

lol had to read this twice... i was like damn that be a very quick race

I say GT.. the turbo will peg more boost...that what its running constant

lol let me rephrase that, do a roll from 45 or 60mph.

 

[rocket5979]

Well, I was actually referring to your racing experience lol. Now that you mention it though you are much older than me...... :-D

I am 26 and I have been to the drag strip several times.... I have run maybe 15-20 times. (when the car had 253hp) It's a different car now so it'll be interesting.

Aaaand the x factors come out. If you don't have much experience with drag racing, let alone higher hp/tq cars, and again let alone your new setup then don't expect much right away. It is a big difference going from 253rwhp N/A and 600+rwhp and 650+rwtq on a turbo car. Unless you have experience with other fast cars that we are not aware of then it might be a good idea if you were to tune the GT on kill mode, then dial the boost back till you are at about 400rwhp and then slowly turn boost up to work up to 600 rather than go for it all at once. People tend to have problems keeping their car under control when taking a large step in hp/tq like you will be. It sounds like the OP might have more dragracing seat time in general and probably with the current combo on his car too which will make it harder for you to beat him. I suggest practicing a little bit.

Car vs car (read drivers not factoring) my money is still on the Turbo GT for a solid win from a dig as long as you guys aren't running on friggin street tires or something. I actually do agree with Stopsign that your 3.73 rear gears will hurt you a bit but at least you aren't running 4.10's or something that would really put your loading the turbo at a disadvantage; especially from a roll.

Good luck.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Stopsign you are an idiot if you think that just because the OP's car is a 4v that it somehow has an advantage here. The dude has a friggin 200+ lb weight disadvantage too. You may have owned turbo cars and centri blown cars before but it is obvious that you still have allot to learn here. :lol:

Easy with the attacks here pal. I don't care if you agree with me or not. It is my opinion. Chill

 

[SPoole]

Aaaand the x factors come out. If you don't have much experience with drag racing, let alone higher hp/tq cars, and again let alone your new setup then don't expect much right away. It is a big difference going from 253rwhp N/A and 600+rwhp and 650+rwtq on a turbo car. Unless you have experience with other fast cars that we are not aware of then it might be a good idea if you were to tune the GT on kill mode, then dial the boost back till you are at about 400rwhp and then slowly turn boost up to work up to 600 rather than go for it all at once. People tend to have problems keeping their car under control when taking a large step in hp/tq like you will be. It sounds like the OP might have more dragracing seat time in general and probably with the current combo on his car too which will make it harder for you to beat him. I suggest practicing a little bit.

Car vs car (read drivers not factoring) my money is still on the Turbo GT for a solid win from a dig as long as you guys aren't running on friggin street tires or something. I actually do agree with Stopsign that your 3.73 rear gears will hurt you a bit but at least you aren't running 4.10's or something that would really put your loading the turbo at a disadvantage; especially from a roll.

Good luck.

I think you have the drivers/ cars mixed up. The OP (me) has the Cobra, road racing exp, no drag time, and only had the car a few weeks. The GT driver has had his car a few years, been to the 1/4 many times, has driven it with the turbo a lot until he melted the top end.
And both of have plenty of experience driving fast-ish cars.

 

[rocket5979]

Easy with the attacks here pal. I don't care if you agree with me or not. It is my opinion. Chill

I apologize for calling you an idiot. But when I encounter someone who really thinks that a centri will get into useable power/torque quicker than a properly setup turbo car of similar peak power then I tend to lose respect for that persons opinion pretty quick. Pssst, we won't even mention the whole 200+lb weight advantage the turbo car has too....:thumbsup:

I think you have the drivers/ cars mixed up. The OP (me) has the Cobra, road racing exp, no drag time, and only had the car a few weeks. The GT driver has had his car a few years, been to the 1/4 many times, has driven it with the turbo a lot until he melted the top end.
And both of have plenty of experience driving fast-ish cars.

Well in that case you are double screwed... :banana: :lol::beer:

Okay, okay, all kidding aside. I didn't get you two mixed up, I just got the impression from Stang GTT that you had more dragracing time in your 4v centri car by the way he worded a few things. I guess I seen "racing" and thought drag not road... The issue Stang GTT is going to run into is that daily driving a turbo car and getting on it a little bit here and there and actually hammering on it in a real race are two different things. Most turbo cars are pretty mild under 1/4 throttle. You get into it much more than that and things change REAL quick. Best of luck to the both of you but be careful out there when getting familiar with the new combo.

 

[pimpleyva]

Lag from the turbo will hurt the 2v and the other car having the same amount of power without the lag should put it ahead. Also the 4.10 gears wont hurt either. My money would be on the supercharged car, given both drivers are equal.

turbo lag? are you still in the 80's? lag is just about gone my car make boost @ 1,800 on a 70mm turbo and if the 4v is a centri then they are almost the same I would put the turbo car ahead of the s/c car mid way through the race give both drivers are equal and if they roll and the turbo guy knows how to brake boost then he jumps out and never looks back.:coolman:

 

[Stopsign32v]

turbo lag? are you still in the 80's? lag is just about gone my car make boost @ 1,800 on a 70mm turbo and if the 4v is a centri then they are almost the same I would put the turbo car ahead of the s/c car mid way through the race give both drivers are equal and if they roll and the turbo guy knows how to brake boost then he jumps out and never looks back.:coolman:

Wait you said lag is "just about gone". Then you say "if the turbo guy knows how to brake boost then". Make up your mind. Does lag matter or not? Thanks for proving my point genious. :lol:

 

[rocket5979]

Wait you said lag is "just about gone". Then you say "if the turbo guy knows how to brake boost then". Make up your mind. Does lag matter or not? Thanks for proving my point genious. :lol:

Well brake boosting actually does not have to do directly with lag it has to do with building a larger amount of boost before starting the race, aka boost response. Look up the definition of "lag" and then look up the definition of "boost response" they are not the same thing even though most people confuse them. Brake boosting is something that a supercharged car cannot do nearly as well because they are not driven off of engine load but a belt. Learn more about the terms so you can stop interchanging them like they are synonymous with one another. You brake boost a turbo car and you are already spooled so there is zero lag, and in turn you are also building boost too which means that there is no lack of boost response. With the centri car you can only spin the blower faster by revving the engine more, not loading it. Being that they are not able to be brake boosted as well as a turbo car most people will just stab the gas right when the race starts. While there is no lag (in the way you mean it) in the centri car there will be initial lack of boost response because the BOV/bypass has to close and then the supercharger has to build pressure within the volume of tubing, FMIC, intake mani, and heads before the pressure reaches the combustion chambers. Though that only takes a split second it still factors because the turbo car has already accomplished that and then some by the time the race has started.

And then also add the fact that right from the get-go the turbo car is already halfways into its boost curve while you are just starting yours and the results aren't looking good for the centri car. Centri cars, even well setup ones, usually make less peak torque than peak hp whereas turbo cars usually make more peak torque then their peak hp. So if these two cars are around 600rwhp then the turbo car is almost guaranteed to make more peak torque than the centri car and also one hell of allot more midrange (read average torque) torque too. The turbo car will also have more average horsepower too because it comes on quicker than the centri car. Stopsign, start listening to physics and science rather than thinking your opinion matters in this situation because it doesn't. Mine doesn't matter here either. It is about science and the way that turbo cars operate compared to centri cars. I am not saying that turbo is better than centri or even the other way around. But for the sake of the comparison outlined in this thread the turbo car is much more likely to be quicker/faster due to the factors I have had to mention numerous times in this thread. If you don't grasp that concept by now, Stopsign, then good luck riding the short bus through life.

I have said my piece more than once in here so I see no need to continue my part of this discussion. Have a good race guys, get it on video. :beer:

 

[Stopsign32v]

Rocket this has been covered on page 2. If you can't understand it then I am sorry. To me, "boost response" and "lag" are the same thing. If you feel they are two completely different things then super.

Again Rocket, take the mature route and stop with the insults. This is not smack down and just because we don't agree on what two TERMS mean does not make you or I any less. Its called opinions. Last time I checked "boost response" is not in any published dictionary so you are no more right than I am.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

Well brake boosting actually does not have to do directly with lag it has to do with building a larger amount of boost before starting the race, aka boost response. Look up the definition of "lag" and then look up the definition of "boost response" they are not the same thing even though most people confuse them. Brake boosting is something that a supercharged car cannot do nearly as well because they are not driven off of engine load but a belt. Learn more about the terms so you can stop interchanging them like they are synonymous with one another. You brake boost a turbo car and you are already spooled so there is zero lag, and in turn you are also building boost too which means that there is no lack of boost response. With the centri car you can only spin the blower faster by revving the engine more, not loading it. Being that they are not able to be brake boosted as well as a turbo car most people will just stab the gas right when the race starts. While there is no lag (in the way you mean it) in the centri car there will be initial lack of boost response because the BOV/bypass has to close and then the supercharger has to build pressure within the volume of tubing, FMIC, intake mani, and heads before the pressure reaches the combustion chambers. Though that only takes a split second it still factors because the turbo car has already accomplished that and then some by the time the race has started.

And then also add the fact that right from the get-go the turbo car is already halfways into its boost curve while you are just starting yours and the results aren't looking good for the centri car. Centri cars, even well setup ones, usually make less peak torque than peak hp whereas turbo cars usually make more peak torque then their peak hp. So if these two cars are around 600rwhp then the turbo car is almost guaranteed to make more peak torque than the centri car and also one hell of allot more midrange (read average torque) torque too. The turbo car will also have more average horsepower too because it comes on quicker than the centri car. Stopsign, start listening to physics and science rather than thinking your opinion matters in this situation because it doesn't. Mine doesn't matter here either. It is about science and the way that turbo cars operate compared to centri cars. I am not saying that turbo is better than centri or even the other way around. But for the sake of the comparison outlined in this thread the turbo car is much more likely to be quicker/faster due to the factors I have had to mention numerous times in this thread. If you don't grasp that concept by now, Stopsign, then good luck riding the short bus through life.

I have said my piece more than once in here so I see no need to continue my part of this discussion. Have a good race guys, get it on video. :beer:

Now read the 2 red parts.
I don't care what terms YOU use. Bottom line is you brake boost to avoid lag.

We all know how it works.

And if you care to insult anyone outside of SD again let me know.

 

[pimpleyva]

Wait you said lag is "just about gone". Then you say "if the turbo guy knows how to brake boost then". Make up your mind. Does lag matter or not? Thanks for proving my point genious. :lol:

when I say gone I mean @ 1,800 rpm my car is in boost (if you are @ 1,800 rpms and your racing then you don't need to be behind the wheel) secondly I brake boost so that I have a load on the car and am in boost way before the suprecharged cars are, even If i didn't brake boost I would have the same response as a centri car. When I said are you still in th 1980's it's because back then turbos didn't come on unti labout 2 or 3k rpms on a RX7 or Supra no with bb turbos and even jurnal turbos that does not exist. ask any turbo guy here turbo lag is none existant. if you have any questions pm me and I can go over this with you. I'm not here to be rude or disrespect anyone but know what your talking about before giving what you think is a fact to someone who has no idea.:read:

Thanks,

 

[pimpleyva]

Now read the 2 red parts.
I don't care what terms YOU use. Bottom line is you brake boost to avoid lag.

We all know how it works.

And if you care to insult anyone outside of SD again let me know.

:read: above

 

[STAMPEDE3]

:read: above

And?

 

[pimpleyva]

are you serious? TURBO LAG IN NON EXISTANT, WE (TURBO OWNERS) BRAKE BOOST AS AN ADVANTAGE OVER SUPERCHARGED CARS NOT TO AVOID LAG.............
LAG IS AN AFTER THOUGHT, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 2 STEP? BRAKE BOOSTING IS LIKE USING A 2 STEP. I run about 18 pounds and when I roll race (I always brake boost) when I leave the whole I'm at about 12 pounds. How hard is that to grasp? again ZERO lag just more than half your boost out the gate

 

[Stopsign32v]

when I say gone I mean @ 1,800 rpm my car is in boost (if you are @ 1,800 rpms and your racing then you don't need to be behind the wheel) secondly I brake boost so that I have a load on the car and am in boost way before the suprecharged cars are, even If i didn't brake boost I would have the same response as a centri car. When I said are you still in th 1980's it's because back then turbos didn't come on unti labout 2 or 3k rpms on a RX7 or Supra no with bb turbos and even jurnal turbos that does not exist. ask any turbo guy here turbo lag is none existant. if you have any questions pm me and I can go over this with you. I'm not here to be rude or disrespect anyone but know what your talking about before giving what you think is a fact to someone who has no idea.:read:

Thanks,

Turbo lag is not non existant. Like I said I've owned more than one turbo car and have driven atleast 6 other besides mine. I've been in everything from a MR2 with the stock turbo to a Supra with a turbo the size of a steering wheel. Are you telling me that a single turbo Supra has no lag? After all according to you turbo lag is "non existant".

 

[Stopsign32v]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrjoXIxhHg"]YouTube- TT Twin Turbo Mustang VS Supercharged Mustang Cobra[/ame]

Yea, no turbo lag there.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxb-T7GWR8s"]YouTube- Ford Mustang Cobra vs Toyota Supra turbo[/ame]

Or there

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05HPAPrvRvg"]YouTube- Street Racing Twin Turbo Supra Vs. Supercharged Mustang[/ame]

turbo lag is non existant since 1980

 

[STAMPEDE3]

are you serious? TURBO LAG IN NON EXISTANT, WE (TURBO OWNERS) BRAKE BOOST AS AN ADVANTAGE OVER SUPERCHARGED CARS NOT TO AVOID LAG.............
LAG IS AN AFTER THOUGHT, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 2 STEP? BRAKE BOOSTING IS LIKE USING A 2 STEP. I run about 18 pounds and when I roll race (I always brake boost) when I leave the whole I'm at about 12 pounds. How hard is that to grasp? again ZERO lag just more than half your boost out the gate

First off, Yes I'm serious.

Few reasons why,
1. Not everyone has a perfect set up. so lag may be there.

2nd, If you are crusing at 3000 RPMs how much boost are you making? None? a little? Not much?
Now to get into boost you need to do 1 of 2 things, Mash the gas and add load or brake boost to add load.

If you just mash the gas there will be a slight bit of lag even with a good set up. Maybe only a fraction of a second but none the less it is there so you brake boost to already be in boost and not starting from nothing.

3rd, In his post that you quoted me on I pointed out 2 things in red that he CONTRADICTED himself on.

4th Heard of a 2 step?
I Am NHRA licensed to 7.50 and have made 185+MPH passes What do you think?

I own a turbo vehicle, have driven race cars with twin screw, centuri, 14/71 roots and turbos.

So don't treat me like a kid.