People paid $100k+ for the 350R.
Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?
- Thread starter biminiLX
- Start date
People paid $100k+ for the 350R.
I'd rather just have a base model with options of Drag pack and Track pack.
call it good .
Maybe the drag pack could have a auto and track have the DCT.
Who am I fooling tho, thats too difficult. Lets just be glad the GT500 is even coming at this point. May be an extreme fail or it could be a good car. All I know is Fiat and GM aren't sitting on their hands, I expect one hell of a show by GM in '19...they will be hard to beat.
Yeah, very dumb people, lol.
I wouldn't go that far. I know 6 dealers that purchased them for over $100k and then sold them to make $10-15k.
They were unreal when they first came out.
Maybe Ford will reveal the new GT500 at NYIAS late March ...as in 2006 for the 2007 that they started making mid-2006.
No doubt in my mind Ford is doing the GT500 -- no way the tease vid would fly otherwise.
But in the 'leaked' pics there's that 5.2 and Cobra on that casting. On a longer view it appears to be configured how Ford was intending to release the '07 GT500. (Dan Davis told me at SEMA 2005 they were working toward an SC in the valley, but funding ran lean.) Ford wound up opting for the TVS 2300 on top instead -- which Roush engineered for Ford.
But Roush, who is one of the five official packagers of the TVS 2650 rotor pack, has designed a clever on-top 2650 configuration with the pulley on one rotor to drive the other via a rear gear-set vs all the other makers who use an auxiliary shaft to drive both rotors from the rear -- clearly because all their target Mustangs are now front-fed because the flow is superior to rear-fed (as in the TVS2300) -- flow is HP.
So -- hang in here a little longer... Roush, who engineered Ford/FRPP's TVS2300 and has now done this innovative 'rotor-drive' front-feed TVS 2650 which almost surely will be the implementation that turns up in the Spring FRPP catalog (and on Roush builds) is NOT the implementation that will be on the GT500? Doesn't that seem VERY odd? Ford leaks that 5.2 Cobra casting which seems to be an intercooler-on-top design (like Ford was thinking for the '07) but FRPP will sell an entirely different product?
Something is wrong here! Either there will be two different Ford/FRPP TVS 2650 implementations or maybe that pulley that's visible (down in the valley) on that leaked pic is some short of idler pulley for another 5.2 build/prototype. If the latter, it might not be a SC at all but a turbo plenum or an NA 5.2 motor having nothing to do with a GT500 at all.
I doubt Ford will do a TT GT500 -- not as aftermarket friendly as a fixed-displacement SC -- but if that 5.2 cobra casting pic is the GT500 there's nothing in that pic that makes it a TVS2650 ...it COULD be NA (of course not) or TT (unlikely) if a GT500.
So, maybe there will be two distinct GT500 SC builds: one targeting the road course with gobs of cooling (as in the ZL1 1LE's 11 intercoolers) for the TVS 2650 in the valley (the 'casting' pic) and another with the new Roush-engineered TVS2650 sitting on top for the strip, where continuous deep-cooling isn't required (like in the '07) because you get to cool it down between runs. Maybe this the drag-pack strip version that targets the Demon vs the track version that targets the ZL1 1LE. Pure speculation on my part but, if in the context of a GT500, what other explanations might there be?
Let me further cloud the waters with a few facts: Ford has been grooming a King Cobra trademark (actually two -- one for a car/parts and one for accessories/apparel) for a couple of years now. They've let them go abandoned in the past after reaching agreement with Shelby for the USE of GT500 -- Ford always seems to have a fallback whenever they negotiate w/SAI for using "GT500" ...possibly in case they can't agree on a favorable licensing deal (my speculation). This is the third time they have done this so it may mean nothing unusual and, in mid March, they will need to file another extension (which I expect they will). The current TM sequence is such that Ford will have to use King Cobra by mid March 2019 or it will be abandoned by default (3-year proof-of-use clock). Cleverly, they had previously used the 'lizard-skin' King Cobra show car (from a couple years back, if you recall) as the proof-of-use, yet re-instigated the King Cobra TM process once again soon after that -- unusual. However Ford has also filed a Design Mark for the 'standing Cobra' you see on the supposed GT500 casting. Ford actually owns that Cobra design (not SAI) -- Ford even owns the classic Cobra design -- long story but CS tried to TM the original in the '60s and, when Ford found out, quashed that filing since Ford owned design assets that came out of the Cobra racing program at the time, and successfully secured that logo as a Ford asset (if you get into the TM archives you can see the change made [by hand] right on the archived trademark folder after the 'dispute' was resolved).
So, to sum: is that 5.2 Cobra casting (whether FDSC or turbo) of the '19/'20 GT500 or of another build? If it's of an FDSC GT500 (FDSC in the valley) did Ford actually contract Roush do two distinct engineering builds? Seems costly and unlikely. Maybe that pic is just a diversion to get us all speculating and is for another specialty Mustang entirely (like a TT or FDSC King Cobra or ???). I don't have these answers but something is different this time around and that presumed GT500 SC casting pic is very curious indeed given what we know Roush is doing with the 2650 rotor pack (on-top, not in-valley) and given that they are one of only 5 worldwide Eaton-certified engineering firms for packaging the 2650 rotor pack.
Wish I had more answers, but thought I'd share some of the questions kicking around in my head, fwiw.
No doubt in my mind Ford is doing the GT500 -- no way the tease vid would fly otherwise.
But in the 'leaked' pics there's that 5.2 and Cobra on that casting. On a longer view it appears to be configured how Ford was intending to release the '07 GT500. (Dan Davis told me at SEMA 2005 they were working toward an SC in the valley, but funding ran lean.) Ford wound up opting for the TVS 2300 on top instead -- which Roush engineered for Ford.
But Roush, who is one of the five official packagers of the TVS 2650 rotor pack, has designed a clever on-top 2650 configuration with the pulley on one rotor to drive the other via a rear gear-set vs all the other makers who use an auxiliary shaft to drive both rotors from the rear -- clearly because all their target Mustangs are now front-fed because the flow is superior to rear-fed (as in the TVS2300) -- flow is HP.
So -- hang in here a little longer... Roush, who engineered Ford/FRPP's TVS2300 and has now done this innovative 'rotor-drive' front-feed TVS 2650 which almost surely will be the implementation that turns up in the Spring FRPP catalog (and on Roush builds) is NOT the implementation that will be on the GT500? Doesn't that seem VERY odd? Ford leaks that 5.2 Cobra casting which seems to be an intercooler-on-top design (like Ford was thinking for the '07) but FRPP will sell an entirely different product?
Something is wrong here! Either there will be two different Ford/FRPP TVS 2650 implementations or maybe that pulley that's visible (down in the valley) on that leaked pic is some short of idler pulley for another 5.2 build/prototype. If the latter, it might not be a SC at all but a turbo plenum or an NA 5.2 motor having nothing to do with a GT500 at all.
I doubt Ford will do a TT GT500 -- not as aftermarket friendly as a fixed-displacement SC -- but if that 5.2 cobra casting pic is the GT500 there's nothing in that pic that makes it a TVS2650 ...it COULD be NA (of course not) or TT (unlikely) if a GT500.
So, maybe there will be two distinct GT500 SC builds: one targeting the road course with gobs of cooling (as in the ZL1 1LE's 11 intercoolers) for the TVS 2650 in the valley (the 'casting' pic) and another with the new Roush-engineered TVS2650 sitting on top for the strip, where continuous deep-cooling isn't required (like in the '07) because you get to cool it down between runs. Maybe this the drag-pack strip version that targets the Demon vs the track version that targets the ZL1 1LE. Pure speculation on my part but, if in the context of a GT500, what other explanations might there be?
Let me further cloud the waters with a few facts: Ford has been grooming a King Cobra trademark (actually two -- one for a car/parts and one for accessories/apparel) for a couple of years now. They've let them go abandoned in the past after reaching agreement with Shelby for the USE of GT500 -- Ford always seems to have a fallback whenever they negotiate w/SAI for using "GT500" ...possibly in case they can't agree on a favorable licensing deal (my speculation). This is the third time they have done this so it may mean nothing unusual and, in mid March, they will need to file another extension (which I expect they will). The current TM sequence is such that Ford will have to use King Cobra by mid March 2019 or it will be abandoned by default (3-year proof-of-use clock). Cleverly, they had previously used the 'lizard-skin' King Cobra show car (from a couple years back, if you recall) as the proof-of-use, yet re-instigated the King Cobra TM process once again soon after that -- unusual. However Ford has also filed a Design Mark for the 'standing Cobra' you see on the supposed GT500 casting. Ford actually owns that Cobra design (not SAI) -- Ford even owns the classic Cobra design -- long story but CS tried to TM the original in the '60s and, when Ford found out, quashed that filing since Ford owned design assets that came out of the Cobra racing program at the time, and successfully secured that logo as a Ford asset (if you get into the TM archives you can see the change made [by hand] right on the archived trademark folder after the 'dispute' was resolved).
So, to sum: is that 5.2 Cobra casting (whether FDSC or turbo) of the '19/'20 GT500 or of another build? If it's of an FDSC GT500 (FDSC in the valley) did Ford actually contract Roush do two distinct engineering builds? Seems costly and unlikely. Maybe that pic is just a diversion to get us all speculating and is for another specialty Mustang entirely (like a TT or FDSC King Cobra or ???). I don't have these answers but something is different this time around and that presumed GT500 SC casting pic is very curious indeed given what we know Roush is doing with the 2650 rotor pack (on-top, not in-valley) and given that they are one of only 5 worldwide Eaton-certified engineering firms for packaging the 2650 rotor pack.
Wish I had more answers, but thought I'd share some of the questions kicking around in my head, fwiw.
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Dude,................EXACTLY!!!
This is what I want as well.
Checking in to see if the GT500 has been released yet........ no? Ok...I'll check back in a month
"If I'm not back in 5 minutes, just wait longer"
kinda suprised that one lame ass CGI teaser and back to radio silence
Exactly. That was a while ago. If Ford was really wanting to create hype they would release a steady stream of vids or something.
Too soon. Better make it 3 months.
lol
Yeah really. There has to be something internal that’s causing things to take this long. I’ll wait for the book that chronicles the story of this car to come about, “Iron Fist, Lead Ass. The story of the 2019 GT500 and why it took so long”
HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Might just be that it's no mean feat to one-up the ZL1 1LE in the handling department. The power part is relatively easy, but it's much tougher to go fast, do it consistently (thermal management) and handle extremely well (total chassis and systems integration management). Even a bone stock 2018 MGT PP1 will thoroughly embarrass the '07-'14 GT500s in the handling department and the '13-'14s were a big improvement over the '07s. The MGT PP2 will even better. But this next GT500 has to be major handling improvement over the '14s (and the MGT PP2) and comparable to the ZL1 1LE -- think GT350R handling while managing an additional near 250HP! Anything less is unacceptable and Ford knows it ...that can take time ...lots of time ...and gobs of supercomputer aero modelling, wind-tunnel, and shaker-rig work -- before prototype on-track finer chassis tuning can even begin. Like I said, power is the easy part. My guess is that the car is in this later stage right now, so any delays (if they are truly delays vs just a schedule we all don't like -lol) are surely track performance/parts related, not power. Jmho.
If GM decides to install the engine out of the 2019 C7 Corvette, 755 HP and 715 lb ft of torque into the 2019 Camaro ZLI ILE, Ford is in for a massive butt whipping. And you won't have to kiss a dealers butt in order to buy one.
I don't think it's as difficult as you think. The GT350R actually handles better than the ZL1. The base ZL1 was only 0.39 seconds faster around Big Willow than the GT350R, and that's not even a technical track. The ZL1 1LE with all that extra power and suspension tech was "only" 1.81 seconds faster around Laguna Seca than the GT350R. Ford could simply add power and some minor suspension tweaks to the R and have the ZL1 1LE covered. I think they might actually be aiming for the GT3 RS this time. And we all know that car is an absolute monster. Now that is no mean feat, especially considering how porky the GT500 is being rumored to be.
755HP/715TRQ < 772HP/743TRQ
The gt350r rides on a ~180tw tire. The zl1-1le rides on a ~100tw tire.
Anybody want to guess which car had which tires, and an extra 125hp when it went 1.8 seconds faster at leguna?
I think GTpremi is on to something. I know I am regarding tires. This is a shocking difference in tread and compound.
Keep in mind the 2014 z28 was on a 60tw tire when the 180tw gt350r clobbered it. Everybody saying how they expect more from the gt350r or Gt350 should realize Ford didn’t go 11/10th on the car. They went 8.5/10th. If you put a 60-100tw tire, and just tweak it naturally aspirated for another 50hp, pull 50lbs out and address a few minutia tuning elements, the car has 2 seconds in it at Leguna.
Or put aero, a cpc and a supercharger on it and f up the whole ethos of the car.
Ford needs to make variants.
1.) 1/4 mile machine. Sub 9 seconds consistently.
2.) 1/2-1 mile top speed machine, 245mph+
3.) Road course beast, break all the stateside track records, and conquer the Ring
4.) 4x4 variant to take in the dunes and win the Baja 1000
5.) Ultra light, maximum downforce car that can actually drive upside down.
Anything less than the above, it's a complete failure.
1.) 1/4 mile machine. Sub 9 seconds consistently.
2.) 1/2-1 mile top speed machine, 245mph+
3.) Road course beast, break all the stateside track records, and conquer the Ring
4.) 4x4 variant to take in the dunes and win the Baja 1000
5.) Ultra light, maximum downforce car that can actually drive upside down.
Anything less than the above, it's a complete failure.
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