Boost ? for coyote

[ArtVandalay16]

After a lot of reading, I haven't found many coyotes breaking directly boost related until after hight 600s-700whp. Many concerns are motors failing after very high revving(>7500) due to added stress or oil pump gears not holding up.

A lot of people say centri SCs are better(reliability of stock motor) because of linear boost, cooler iat's, etc. On the other hand, a lot of tvs guys are making 650whp and DD with not many issues...at least haven't read many.

Therefore my question, I want a 600whp DD car that will see limited track time, 1-2/yr. With a tvs, I could keep my rpms below 7k and hit my number with supporting mods. With a centri, ideally I'd have to rev it a lot higher to make similar power...which is better for longevity? Tvs with lower rev limit, or centri carrying to say 7300?

With a kid on the way, I plan on building motor or boss crate in a year or two...

 

[grnenvy]

I have what u want and I'm running a TVS tuned by Justin @ VMP.

 

[ArtVandalay16]

^how happy are you at that power level, and the tvs in general. I was about to pull trigger on paxton last night, but coming from driving highly modified turbo diesels...I think I want the added tq of tvs...therefore brings my question above.

My previous turbo diesel 620hp/982tq

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

I have a TVS and love it. The torque hit makes it a monster on the street. My previous dyno numbers were 523/463 SAE and best run at that time was 11.9@124. I added the JLT and updated tune and ran an 11.2@129 on street tires. I'd guess I'm somewhere north of 550 at this point. I've data logged up to 7500rpms with this setup and the logs looked good.


I also DD my car and drove it to mustang week in myrtle beach from Oklahoma with zero issues.

 

[alex12gt]

Love my tvs running prolly around 625 and its fun as hell

 

[grnenvy]

I have a budy that pulled his Paxton off for a TVS. At 8 psi the TVS is making way more pwr and tq then a centrifigal. The tq curve is real lazy at low boost with centrifigals. If your building a pure track car then that would be different you can boost it to the moon.
The TVS is a know brainer u won't need a tq converter or gears to get u moving.

 

[stang8psi]

fastest cars are running the paxton! And most are putting down 600-640 rwhp with a base kit? You will be limited in the future with the roush tvs, but not with a paxton kit! That being said the tvs hits down low like a freight train, the paxton is like you said linear and power comes on smooth. can't go wrong with either but the paxton kit is about 1000 bucks cheaper and able to make more power down the road!

 

[corepwn]

You're limited by the stock engine internals in either case. The paxton has more room to grow and ultimately be the faster combo if you do all the supporting mods (stall, fuel, built motor etc).

However, the Roush has been 9s in full weight cars with the stock motor, stock converter. If you have an auto you can basically just install the blower and a tune and will have a 10 second car if you have a set of drag radials and no other mods. (This has been repeated many times)

In my opinion it depends on what you want to do, and how far you really expect to go. If you want a street car that has tons of power everywhere and would be happy with an easy 10 second car (9 secs with more mods), the Roush blower is your thing.

If you want a low 9 second capable car (built motor, supporting mods etc) that is tracked more often then go with the Paxton setup.

 

[truebluedevil02]

You're limited by the stock engine internals in either case. The paxton has more room to grow and ultimately be the faster combo if you do all the supporting mods (stall, fuel, built motor etc).

However, the Roush has been 9s in full weight cars with the stock motor, stock converter. If you have an auto you can basically just install the blower and a tune and will have a 10 second car if you have a set of drag radials and no other mods. (This has been repeated many times)

In my opinion it depends on what you want to do, and how far you really expect to go. If you want a street car that has tons of power everywhere and would be happy with an easy 10 second car (9 secs with more mods), the Roush blower is your thing.

If you want a low 9 second capable car (built motor, supporting mods etc) that is tracked more often then go with the Paxton setup.

JPC went 9's on a stock motor, stock trans/torque converter, full weight with a Paxton, just saying. OP, like stated, once you build the motor the TVS will need to be upgraded and then your looking at another $3000. The paxton is a one stop shop and cheaper to start with.

 

[grnenvy]

Yes

I couldn't have said it any better. On a side note at low boost (8psi) the TVS has the win by a huge margine. I have seen dyno sheets laid over top of each other and the TVS has almost 80 pounds of tq more from 3k to 6k. Thats huge!!

I have had more Paxtons and Vortechs them most people I'm just stating what I have seen.

You're limited by the stock engine internals in either case. The paxton has more room to grow and ultimately be the faster

combo if you do all the supporting mods (stall, fuel, built motor etc).

However, the Roush has been 9s in full weight cars with the stock motor, stock converter. If you have an auto you can basically just install the blower and a tune and will have a 10 second car if you have a set of drag radials and no other mods. (This has been repeated many times)

In my opinion it depends on what you want to do, and how far you really expect to go. If you want a street car that has tons of power everywhere and would be happy with an easy 10 second car (9 secs with more mods), the Roush blower is your thing.

If you want a low 9 second capable car (built motor, supporting mods etc) that is tracked more often then go with the Paxton setup.

 

[corepwn]

JPC went 9's on a stock motor, stock trans/torque converter, full weight with a Paxton, just saying. OP, like stated, once you build the motor the TVS will need to be upgraded and then your looking at another $3000. The paxton is a one stop shop and cheaper to start with.

While I could definitely be wrong, the only info I could pull on a full weight JPC car like you're mentioning was a build they recently did for a customer, here are it's listed mods..

This 2013 GT came to JPC with Kooks Long tube headers, Bassani Axle-Back Exhaust, 4.10 Gears, Circle D converter, and an SCT tuner and tune. Upon arrival, JPC got to work installing a Paxton NOVI 2200 Supercharging System with optional 8-rib drive upgrade, Injector Dynamics ID1000 fuel injectors, a Vortech Maxflow FPB (Fuel Pump Voltage Booster), Weld RTS wheels, and a custom dyno tune.

On the dyno at JPC, the newly equipped car threw down an impressive 730 rear wheel horsepower at 15psi of ultra-efficient Paxton NOVI boost. (race gas)

This car also blew up last week during the 5.0 shootout when the owner went for more with a smaller pulley.

My main point was that I don't know of any centri blower car running 9s with the stock converter. And 4.10s in one of these autos is not going to make for a great street car IMO.

I also think most people need to be realistic with their goals and really ask themselves, how fast do you plan on going. Do you really expect to build your motor, and go for low 9 second passes?

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

I think a good plus about the TVS is its sneaky. You really can't hear it at idle while the centris are pretty loud and great for the occasional intimidation kill. I will admit that 2nd gear is useless for me on street tires still the car is awesome to drive and drives like stock till you crack her open. I know I'll max out the blower eventually but with the stock motor I'm def happy with it. Ill prob slap a 2.9 whipple on later down the road. But I think you could easily push 750 to 800 with the TVS. That is plenty for a street car IMO.

 

[stang8psi]

While I could definitely be wrong, the only info I could pull on a full weight JPC car like you're mentioning was a build they recently did for a customer, here are it's listed mods..

This car also blew up last week during the 5.0 shootout when the owner went for more with a smaller pulley.

My main point was that I don't know of any centri blower car running 9s with the stock converter. And 4.10s in one of these autos is not going to make for a great street car IMO.

I also think most people need to be realistic with their goals and really ask themselves, how fast do you plan on going. Do you really expect to build your motor, and go for low 9 second passes?

Any blower regardless of brand will blow a stock motor when you are pushing the limits like this customer was and did. The car was stone stock except for the paxton kit and running 9's. I am sure the customer knew he was going to be on borrowed time when he put a smaller pulley on the vehicle and I believe he was in the upper 800's whp range when it let go on his Stock motor!

 

[beefcake]

the stock tvs vs stock paxton does not make 80ft lbs more torque, not even close

i posted my original dyno graphs from 2 years ago (t trim, smaller than the paxton) and torque vs the tvs was always within 15 or so hp

again, these aren't 3v engines. they don't need a roots / screw blower to get going.

and justins 9's was not with the stock setup

my t trim with a gear and no converter went 10.8's on the first hit over 2 years ago

you do not need a converter in the car to run 10's

i don't know why 2 1/2 years later we are still having the discussion about how much more torque the cars make with the TVS. It's simply not true.

And the base kits with the TVS are not faster. Again, not true.

You have 1 or 2 tvs cars that have went 9's. And lets not forget vmps car with driver is a base car with a 90lb driver.

it's a great time, don't get me wrong. but the TVS has been stagnant for what a year and a half now, without improvement.

if you want a base kit for a car, any kit you'll be happy with. if you have any intention of growing, the paxton for the money is hands down the least expensive, best intercooled, less heat soaked out of any of them.

PERIOD!

And, it out performs them all

 

[corepwn]

Any blower regardless of brand will blow a stock motor when you are pushing the limits like this customer was and did. The car was stone stock except for the paxton kit and running 9's. I am sure the customer knew he was going to be on borrowed time when he put a smaller pulley on the vehicle and I believe he was in the upper 800's whp range when it let go on his Stock motor!

I don't know where you're getting a stone stock aside from "paxton kit" mod list from. I see quite a few mods on the list.

I really don't see any new information being presented or any arguments to what I've already stated.

Facts:
All blowers are capable of making more power than your stock motor can handle.
All blowers are capable of putting you into the 9s.
The TVS blower requires the least additional mods to put you into the 10s and upper 9s.
With a built motor and supporting mods, the paxton kit has the capability of being faster.

Question:
How fast do you honestly plan to go?

 

[beefcake]

I don't know where you're getting a stone stock aside from "paxton kit" mod list from. I see quite a few mods on the list.

I really don't see any new information being presented or any arguments to what I've already stated.

Facts:
All blowers are capable of making more power than your stock motor can handle.

true
All blowers are capable of putting you into the 9s.
true
The TVS blower requires the least additional mods to put you into the 10s and upper 9s.
false

again, how many tvs cars have ever run a 9, 2 that i know of?
With a built motor and supporting mods, the paxton kit has the capability of being faster.
true

Question:
How fast do you honestly plan to go?

thats what it comes down to

if a built motor is in the future, PAXTON

 

[Eric@jpc]

Here is my take on it.

Pro's on the paxton kit
it will support crazy power later down the road
The price point is spot on
Its got many up grades available (JLT big air 8 rib ect)

Pro's on the TVS
Slightly easier install
Makes the power in lower RPM
Quite and stealthy

Down sides are the TVS is going to be limited on power i dont think you will ever see one crack 1000 rwhp

I think both setups are nice its just a matter of where you are going with the car.

As far as that 9.60 car we just did goes. I dont know why its not a "stock" setup

Thats the Paxton Competition system

2011-2013 GT NOVI 2200SL COMPETITON SYSTEM w/ A/A Intercooler, 8 rib drive & Oil Fed Blower & Competiton Inlet, Satin

That kit runs 4895.

the 3.73 gears that have now been installed in that car make it a very street friendly setup IMO. So if the only complaint is you need headers and a converter to go mid 9s on a tire then i dont know what the argument is. as far as any other cars are concerned thats a tiny amount of parts to run what some guys spend years trying todo

 

[sambandit]

LOL, these threads always turn into a war. Bottom line is all the setups are good, are going to feel great on the street and have alot of potential.

As far as who is faster and what have you and what not, they are ALL capable of going fast, real fast. It's nuts to talk about 9 second cars, because "most" people are not concerned about going that fast and "most" people don't want to build the motor, do a huge fuel system, install a bar, and all the other requirements to run 9s on a consistant basis.

My 2 cents are, if you want to stick around 600-700 RWHP, it's hard to beat a TVS. It is going to make better numbers, run better at the track and feel better that a Centrifugal car, AT LOW BOOST. If you want to talk about 14-15 lbs+ boost, centri has more benefits, but again, most people are not going to want to run anywhere near that boost unless you have deep pockets.

 

[sambandit]

JPC went 9's on a stock motor, stock trans/torque converter, full weight with a Paxton, just saying. OP, like stated, once you build the motor the TVS will need to be upgraded and then your looking at another $3000. The paxton is a one stop shop and cheaper to start with.

So did VMP with a TVS. They might of had a converter at that point, I'm not sure, but their car was also flying, and I believe it was at 141 MPH.

That's my point, just about any combo has been proven to go 9s, and be really fast. I haven't seen any low 9 TVS cars, but I think it's possible. Everyone is always guilty of jumping to a bigger blower, or adding more boost, or yadayadayada without maximizing their current combo.

Limiting factor on on PD car right now is the fact that there isn't a bigger crank pulley available so none of us are really able to crank up the boost and see what shakes loose. If we could throw 15-16-17-20 lbs of boost at a TVS, it would also be a low 9 second car like all the rest.

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

So did VMP with a TVS. They might of had a converter at that point, I'm not sure, but their car was also flying, and I believe it was at 141 MPH.

That's my point, just about any combo has been proven to go 9s, and be really fast. I haven't seen any low 9 TVS cars, but I think it's possible. Everyone is always guilty of jumping to a bigger blower, or adding more boost, or yadayadayada without maximizing their current combo.

Limiting factor on on PD car right now is the fact that there isn't a bigger crank pulley available so none of us are really able to crank up the boost and see what shakes loose. If we could throw 15-16-17-20 lbs of boost at a TVS, it would also be a low 9 second car like all the rest.

the 69mm pulley should be good for 15psi closer to sea level. my car has trapped 129 on street tires. I have a lot of fun with the power my car makes considering i havent touched the internals. either way I personally dont want to do all the work to have a car that runs 9s at the track. way to much money lol. I almost pulled the trigger on beefcakes paxton kit (which is a helluva deal!!!) but im very happy i went the route i did. i dont want or need a 1000+hp street car. so ultimately you just need to set a goal for the build. My next build will probably be a twin turbo car lol.