Buyin GT

[MTI LS1]

While the price seems high for a Ford, it seems reasonable compared to what it was built to compete with.

As for sales, IMO I think this is the car that American car lovers have waited for. A car that was built to compete with the best, born in America.

If any of you havent seen the TopGear GT40 video, I highly recommend it. Its quite funny.

Zach

 

[fordification]

With bodyguards in tow, Jeremy Clarkson takes to the shadowy streets of Detroit in a Ford GT. Has it really got the muscle to take on the likes of Ferrari?

Road test - Ford GT
[November 18 2003]

When I first clapped eyes on Ford's new GT, in a burned-out, derelict street about two miles from the smashed and deserted centre of Detroit, my first thought was 'Oh no. The front end's too sharp. And the wheels are all wrong.' In the pictures, it really does look like the old GT40, but when you're right there, it's obviously longer, and wider and three inches taller.

This will matter a great deal if, like me, you are 43 years old. Because if you are 43, you would have been six when the original came along, and you would have thought, like me, that it was everything that mattered, in metal. Then I walked round to the back and, holy cow. Clive James once described Arnold Schwarzenegger as a 'condom full of walnuts'. Well that's what the rear of this car looks like: a big red condom with white stripes, full of cojones - a tinkle-grabbing blaze of power and aggression. It made me feel six years old again. Excited, nearly to the point of tumescence. Only last time around, the GT40 was just a poster on my wall. This time, it was real. And I was going to drive it...

First of all, though, let me give you an example of how hard it has been to turn this extraordinary machine from a twinkle in someone's eye to a real road-going car that, next year, you'll be able to buy, albeit with left-hand drive. On the original concept car, shown at the Detroit Show in 2002, there were two fuel filler caps; one in each front wing. Everyone agreed this was in keeping with the original design and looked good. But two fuel filler caps would cause the car to fail the 'evaporative emission' tests that cars must pass these days. Fine, thought the engineers. Let's make one of them a filler for the washer bottle. The lawyers laughed at that one. 'Right' they said 'And what shall we do when someone sues us for putting soapy suds in the V8 and spraying his windscreen with petrol?'

Given time, the GT team may have found a solution. But they had no time. They'd been asked to get the car ready in 12 months. And one of the team leaders had said 'Sure. We can do that.' In much the same way that someone in the US army said 'Sure. We can do that', when asked to find Saddam Hussein.

There was a similar problem with the doors. Like the original's, they cut into the roof, which is a good thing when you're changing drivers at Le Mans, but not so good when someone parks next to you in a Wolverhampton multi-storey car park. Put simply, you won't be able to get in. Again, in time, a solution might have been found. But the car had to be ready for Ford's 100th anniversary. And the clock was ticking...

To make matters worse, Ford is not exactly flush with cash at the moment, Technically, I'm told, it's broke. So, the engineers were given what may as well have been a fiver. There's evidence of cost and corner cutting wherever you look. Certainly there's no sense it was handmade by craftsmen using techniques handed down over the generations. Rather, it looks like it was made in a big hurry using what-ever happened to be lying around.

It's billed as the first American supercar, but that's stretching things a bit. I mean, the gearbox is from Ricardo. The body was worked on by Mayflower. The steering rack comes from an Aston Martin Vanquish. Lotus helped out with the chassis. The wheels are from BBS. The brakes are from Brembo. Doesn't sound very American to me.

Except, of course, for the engine. That's a supercharged 5.4-litre V8 they got from the most glamorous and exotic of sources - the Lightning pickup truck. But this, in fact, has always been part of the GT40's appeal. The big simpleton taking on the Italian aristocrats. Rocky. The working-class hero, a blue-collar car with a street fighter's punch. As before, the main target of the GT is Ferrari - specifically the 360. And I think they may have overdone it.

First of all, there's the weight issue. For all its parts-bin engineering, the GT is surprisingly light. It has an all-aluminium space frame chassis, and an aluminum body which is welded together in a clever (but rather boring) new way. So, you get 400bhp from the Italian car in a package weighing 1,447kg. With the Ford, you get 500bhp, and twice the torque over twice the rev range in a package weighing 1,541kg. Do the maths and the result is obvious way before you even turn the key. In a drag race, the Ford is going to crush the Ferrari like a beetle. I'd guess at 0-60 in 4.0secs. 0-100 in 9.5 and a top speed, in sixth, of 200mph.

I did turn the key, though, and was mildly surprised at what happened. More surprised than on finding I didn't need to push the seat all the way back, in fact. Instead of the V8 bursting into life with a cackle and boom, it just started. Then I pressed the clutch, with one foot, eased it into first, with one hand, and twirled the Micra-light power steering and eased onto the street. Supercar? It certainly didn't feel that way.

Inside, you can forget about leather that's been hand-stitched by toothless crones. Or carpets made by the finest mills in Lancashire. Or toys. To save weight, it's equipped and trimmed like a cave. But with the aircon set just so, I was calm and quiet and comfortable. Then just as I arrived at a set of red lights, Bruce Springsteen came on the radio...

In a recent BBC survey to find the things people would most like to do before they die, swimming with dolphins came out at number one. Well, what I've always wanted to do is hammer a GT40 between the lights on Woodward Avenue in downtown Detroit. So I did. The rear wheels lit up like Catherine wheels, the supercharger belt which is plainly visible in the rearview mirror went into Mad Max mode, the hum from the engine deepened, the plethora of dials danced like they'd been plugged into the mains... and I hit 60 without a gearchange (a shorter final drive might be in order methinks). Into second and five seconds later I was up past the ton and thinking about third when, mercifully really, the lights ahead went red. The big brakes hauled me back down to nought just as Bruce started singing about the broken heroes on their last chance power drive. Abso-bloody-lutely.

Afterwards, I pottered around in Detroit some more, smiling at the hobos partly because I had the power to outrun their bullets, and partly because I was very, very happy. In fact, the only mental note I made was about the ride. But then no car copes well with these roads, which are as smashed and as broken as the city itself. Unfortunately, it still didn't cope the following day when I headed 50 miles west and into the countryside. The warning signs talked of a 20mph limit for the corner ahead but this being the land of the sued and the home of the timid, I dropped down to 60 before turning in. It wasn't nice.

I could see the front of the car sliding wide but I couldn't feel it. The steering was numb and the column itself was shaking over some mid-apex bumps. I tried to bring the back round with a prod on the throttle, but such was the grip from the 315/40 rear tyres, it was no good. I simply went faster. Much faster. The acceleration doesn't snap your head back. It isn't savage or brutal, but it is relentless. If I may liken the Ferrari to a rifle shot, this is more like the boom of artillery fire. Less accurate, but 100 times as effective.

So, I thought, another point-and-squirt American muscle car. Quick, but as good at cornering as they are at whispering. The engineers were horrified. "No, NO, NOOOOO," they shouted. This car is set up for a race track. We haven't finished with the shock absorbers yet." They'd better get a move on. According to Porsche, it takes a minimum of 18 months to sort a 'nearly' ready car, fine tuning the tyres and the shocks so they work together perfectly. The GT goes on sale in six.

And there's something else that needs to be addressed. It's not the volume of noise I'm worried about. It's the quality. From the outside, the GT sounds sensational but from inside, it sounds like a car. Nothing more. Nothing less. If I'm sounding down at this point, it's because I was. I'd been longing to drive this car and, as is the way with all things GT40, I'd come too soon. It simply wasn't ready. In fact, I thought, the best thing you could do with a GT is have someone drive it in front of you all day. That way, you'd get to hear the exhaust bark and gawp at that sensational back end.

In fact, I did just that. On the way back to the airport, I piled into the Lincoln hire care and followed the GT back down the motorway. And I had a funny feeling, one I hadn't had since I first encountered the Ferrari 355. I can't say whether Ford's efforts to fine-tune the suspension and steering will be successful, but I sort of don't care. Because even if it does turn out to be 10 per cent less dramatic than the Euro old hands, it still trounces them in perhaps the most important arena of them all. You may respect the Porsche 911 Turbo. You may like the Lamborghini Gallardo and you may love the Ferrari 360. But the Ford GT is a car you want.

Yes, it's very advanced, especially for a country whose plugs are positively Rwandan, and, yes, it is hugely powerful and fast. Plus, with a proposed price tag of less than £100,000, it is also good value for money. These are the upsides in a vista that has its share of downsides too.

But what matters most is that as it disappeared off the motorway, I craned my neck for one last look at that phenomenal rear end. I never do that. Normally, I leave a car thinking only of the review to be written. But the GT was different. It had been a brief encounter. And the effect was just as powerful. Even now, weeks later, I simply cannot get the Ford GT out of my head.

Jeremy Clarkson

 

[02 Harley Truck]

yeah i saw that video... its awesome!

 

[Paul Vincent]

Here's some info on the Ford 427 Concept vehicle engine. Note that it is a dohc engine yet its weight is sig. less than that of the Cobra R's.
The modern version of the Ford 427 concept’s power plant started off as a cloak and dagger “skunk works” project commissioned by Theodore, who wanted to know if it was feasible to craft an all-new, lightweight 427 cubic inch (7.0-liter) engine out of Ford’s highly flexible modular V-8 engine family. Ford’s Powertrain Research & Development answered the call and began working under the radar screen on a limited budget. The result shocked everyone.

The 427 engine produces a tremendous 590 horsepower at 6,500 rpm and 509 foot-pounds of torque at 5500 rpm. Remarkably, the engine is almost 70 pounds lighter than the 5.4-liter 32-valve Cobra R engine from the Ford Mustang. The 427 achieves this astonishing power-to-weight ratio through the following attributes:

* Siamese bore aluminum V-10 engine block based on Ford’s modular V-8 DOHC engines
* Ford-pioneered metal spray process to maximize the bore at 95mm
* Newly designed lightweight forged aluminum pistons with a very short compression height
* Aluminum cylinder head derived from the SVT Cobra R Mustang
* New billet H-beam connecting rods and billet steel common pin crankshaft for increased strength without the need for a balance shaft
* Lightweight hollow stem valves

The engine technologies were developed in Ford facilities between Detroit and Dearborn. So, it was only logical to carve the “Powered By Ford” and “V-10” logo with a Redline Red finish on the billet cam covers. Above that, the engineers bolted a massive aluminum strut tower inspired from the grille. As a final touch, they added lightning bolt caps along the inner fender walls.

 

[fordification]

Looks promising. Must be similar to the Cobras V-10. I'm thinking the original plan was to develop a new powerplant for the GT, but with there lack of time and funding, it was more feasable to develop the 5.4. Possibly in the future, I wouldn't be surprised to see the GT's 5.4 moved into the 3rd gen Lightning, and then transplanting the 427 into the GT.

 

[Paul Vincent]

fordification, Yes, I too can see all of what you are saying. Interestingly enough though, the 427 concept has a dohc/4v configuration and not the 3 valve that some seem to want. If 3 valves can make more power per lb. than 4 valves, I'm all for them too. But then ohc 3 valve heads are larger than ohv (pushrod) engines, and I really don't want Ford going back to pushrod technology. I notice that with Mercedes, to get the big power from their 3 valve engines, they have added superchargers. I know that Ford was considering 3 valve engines even in the mid ninties (and later on I believe there was some talk of a lawsuit against Mercedes for its use of the 3 valve heads), but as of yet I really know of no manufacturer using normally asipirated 3 valve heads to lead the hp/performance competition.
Also, isn't it interesting that with Holman Moody and others offering GT's more in keeping with the original GT40's specs that there apparently isn't near the level of interest in those cars as there is in the longer, taller, heavier, supercharged Ford GT? As I wrote earlier (perhaps on another thread) there is currently a Safir GT 40 for sale at app. $255,000. From what I know, the owner spent significantly more than that acquiring it well over a decade ago. In that respect, it's a steal.
Also, would many Mustang Cobra owners complain if the GT's all alloy 5.4 SC engine was eventually to be used as its powerplant?

 

[Dave Schotz]

Both comments sound appealing! It probably makes sense though... to use the Iron Block still, in the lightning (Since it is a truck). And Hopefully use the Aluminum Block in the Cobra or possibly Cobra R.

The 10 Cyl 7.0 is exactly the combination I would be looking for.

Peace!

Dave

 

[Paul Vincent]

DS, Probably 99% of all car guys would want that 427. Let's hope that Ford delivers it.

 

[02 Harley Truck]

yeah that would be kik ass....

 

[Golions]

Lets remember that just because the MSRP is 140K doesn't mean the dealers won't try to get more. I have information that one dealer has an order for two units. He already has people lined up to pay twice that amount. Why would he sell for MSRP?

With only 4000 being built, and a % of that 4000 earmarked for Europe (only place where they can be driven to their potential), kiss any type of MSRP goodbye. I don't think Ford will be making a car of this caliber for a very long time once the GT is done. Can you say bidding war? I am sure you all saw one of the first production unit went at a charity auction for $300K +

I don't mean to burst anyones bubble, but if someone thinks these will move at $60K below invoice, they gotta get off the pipe.

GiddyUp!

:thumbsup:

 

[OH-MAN]

Hey Dave

Originally posted by Dave

I won't mind picking mine up in 3 years with 2500 miles on it for $65,000

Peace!

Dave [/B]

Dave, how are you doing? We met at speedworld in phx. you came out to run your L with the AZLOC group.
Just wanted to say hi and stop in the website anytime.
Later Steve
PS good luck with those road racers

 

[Lthl Venom 03]

i have no idea what kinda sh*t some of you guys are smoking. You're buying the full package when you buy a GT, not just horsepower and straight line performance. If Ford wants to compete with Ferrari it needs to be a high priced supercar. If it was cheap then many people could afford it and would never be close to having the "pinash" of a ferrari or a Lambo. Its just the beginning and the GT is a great start for making some competition for Ferrari and such. Shelby's workings with Ford are likely to help too! and don't start nagging when you find out the new shelby cars arent at an affordable price for you

 

[Paul Vincent]

I just tonight saw the GT and the Shelby Cobra Concept at the auto show. Ford did it right, for sure. Two different cars, but I'd take both of them anyday.

 

[bbp42d]

the only way a dealer could get the gt was to win the presidents award. with that said, i promise that these cars will go in excess of over 250 or 300k easy. yes msrp will be in the 149k range. i know for a fact we are gettin 2 and maybe 1 more due to our volume. the 1st is already gone at a undisclosed price due to the sale pending. the 2nd, hopefully i got sold:beer: to a collector in england. when some one buys this car for under msrp please scan the bill of sale and i will pull every egg i got to go and do the same:coolman:

 

[Paul Vincent]

bbp42d, What I saw at the Chicago Auto Show looked like a vehicle easily worth $100,000 more than sticker. The GT really was a work of art.

 

[bbp42d]

Originally posted by Paul Vincent
bbp42d, What I saw at the Chicago Auto Show looked like a vehicle easily worth $100,000 more than sticker. The GT really was a work of art.

like i said in above post price is undisclosed until they reach the market, all i am saying is there is an agreed price to buy it, and it is nowhewe near the lowball price of 90k, if so i want to buy all of them, just need to cash out that damn 401k and some property and






hope i sell them for a profit

 

[02 Harley Truck]

where can i check to see what dealers have them?

 

[Paul Vincent]

02 Harley Truck, I'm not sure that this is the answer that you'll want to read, but quite often, advertisements in AutoWeek give early access to buyers who are willing to pay a price.

 

[93cobra03]

I have one purchased locally for far over 90K, 120k. and yes even 140k. Not trying to sound like the ass that I'am but people who buy these cars including myself are doing it for the uniqueness of the car and the performance not just one or the other. I have had some high end cars and worked for Porsche. The cars will not get "stacked up on lots" or be discounted. I like my money and I'am pretty tight but I go in the door knowing that I'am paying the price of entry and the getting the keys to exclusivity. I just sold my Jaguar XJR and now I get to go up one more rung. These kind of purchases are hard to imagine for the lay person so they get put into that context of buying a house. It becomes one of those things that people will look at and say what an idiot you know what I could build for that money and so on. Call it whatever, it comes down to we all want the car just only a few of us can have one, and yes I will rub it in when it comes. Imagine what a smaller pulley will do. I know "what about the warranty" If you can afford the car you can afford another engine! Now on a lighter non-condescending tone I also am the kind of guy who will take you for a ride if you ask and show you what it can do. I have seen both sides of the coin and understand. I know of a dealer who has one PM for info. I had mine locked some time ago and I was contacted to purchase so I don't see them hitting the sunday paper.

 

[bbp42d]

Originally posted by 03COBRA93
I have one purchased locally for far over 90K, 120k. and yes even 140k. Not trying to sound like the ass that I'am but people who buy these cars including myself are doing it for the uniqueness of the car and the performance not just one or the other. I have had some high end cars and worked for Porsche. The cars will not get "stacked up on lots" or be discounted. I like my money and I'am pretty tight but I go in the door knowing that I'am paying the price of entry and the getting the keys to exclusivity. I just sold my Jaguar XJR and now I get to go up one more rung. These kind of purchases are hard to imagine for the lay person so they get put into that context of buying a house. It becomes one of those things that people will look at and say what an idiot you know what I could build for that money and so on. Call it whatever, it comes down to we all want the car just only a few of us can have one, and yes I will rub it in when it comes. Imagine what a smaller pulley will do. I know "what about the warranty" If you can afford the car you can afford another engine! Now on a lighter non-condescending tone I also am the kind of guy who will take you for a ride if you ask and show you what it can do. I have seen both sides of the coin and understand. I know of a dealer who has one PM for info. I had mine locked some time ago and I was contacted to purchase so I don't see them hitting the sunday paper.

thank you:coolman: