c6z vs 13 5.0
- Thread starter ArabianOak
- Start date
What's left to discuss here ? this horse is beyond dead. It wasn't my intention to turn this into a 6 page pissing contest. I'm well aware of the c6z capabilities all around, that wasn't the comparison. I'm also well aware of the Terminators capabilities as I've owned one and went through 2 tranny's, 1 rear end, and a motor in under 8k miles. Don't mean I disrespect them, doesn't mean that they're all like that.
My argument is a 5.0 setup with the right "Bolt-On" modifications (Per my definition, which is relative. I realize) can in fact run high 10's low 11's with 4k in mods. With the only form of "Weight Reduction" being slicks and skinnies. That is how my original post read. The numbers are documented, I'm not saying every car will FOR SURE 100% run 10's, clearly every car is different but low 11's should be no problem at all.
Fact of the matter is, it isn't unheard of to see C6Z's run 11.30's-11.50's. All I was saying is that it's a worthy competitor in a straight line 1/4 mile'esque setting. This new combo is merely 2 months in the making, so I understand how people are taken back. Believe me a year or 2 from now, you'll see loads of new high 10-low 11 sec slips and these guys that truly are full "race cars" interior stripped should have no problem finding mid 10's or better.
When these cars first started running 10's with massive Weight reduction most of those cars were putting down ~450 range SAE. I realize all dyno's are different, Take Shaun@AED for instance when he ran his 10.90's his car dyno'd in this range. One of these new combo cars put down 485 on the same exact dyno.
For those that don't know the "general" on average rule of thumb for figuring 1/4mile et
based on weight & Wheel Horsepower
Every 100 pounds is good for a tenth
Every 10 WHP(not flyweel) is good for just shy of a tenth.
so 300 pounds of weight reduction can be offset by 30 Wheel Horsepower.(Again on average) Things like DA and Drag Coefficient also play a factor.
So based on this, take this example and explain to me how a 5.0 that has a race weight of 3300 lbs and makes 450 WHP SAE is any more capable than a 5.0 with a 3600lb race weight making 480WHP SAE?? I'm not saying they'll be "EXACT" but they'll be damn close.
I've chosen to agree to disagree as some people are just in denial.
My argument is a 5.0 setup with the right "Bolt-On" modifications (Per my definition, which is relative. I realize) can in fact run high 10's low 11's with 4k in mods. With the only form of "Weight Reduction" being slicks and skinnies. That is how my original post read. The numbers are documented, I'm not saying every car will FOR SURE 100% run 10's, clearly every car is different but low 11's should be no problem at all.
Fact of the matter is, it isn't unheard of to see C6Z's run 11.30's-11.50's. All I was saying is that it's a worthy competitor in a straight line 1/4 mile'esque setting. This new combo is merely 2 months in the making, so I understand how people are taken back. Believe me a year or 2 from now, you'll see loads of new high 10-low 11 sec slips and these guys that truly are full "race cars" interior stripped should have no problem finding mid 10's or better.
When these cars first started running 10's with massive Weight reduction most of those cars were putting down ~450 range SAE. I realize all dyno's are different, Take Shaun@AED for instance when he ran his 10.90's his car dyno'd in this range. One of these new combo cars put down 485 on the same exact dyno.
For those that don't know the "general" on average rule of thumb for figuring 1/4mile et
based on weight & Wheel Horsepower
Every 100 pounds is good for a tenth
Every 10 WHP(not flyweel) is good for just shy of a tenth.
so 300 pounds of weight reduction can be offset by 30 Wheel Horsepower.(Again on average) Things like DA and Drag Coefficient also play a factor.
So based on this, take this example and explain to me how a 5.0 that has a race weight of 3300 lbs and makes 450 WHP SAE is any more capable than a 5.0 with a 3600lb race weight making 480WHP SAE?? I'm not saying they'll be "EXACT" but they'll be damn close.
I've chosen to agree to disagree as some people are just in denial.
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Negative, you are wrong in thinking it doesn't cost 4k in bolt on's to be close to a stock c6z. I'll say this for the 3rd and final time, there are 3 cars on that list, a list that hasnt even been updated during the summer (2013) that are running slicks and a tune ONLY running 11's. What are you going to tell me next the slicks & tune they bought was over 4k? LOL
I brought up it takes about 7k to run 10 sec 5.0 with a blower, even less if you go nitrous. And its not going to blow up on one pass, there was a timeslip posted by need4speed03, that first started out with a 100 shot, went up to 125, and now at 150 shot and he is in the 10.4's.
I'd love to prove you wrong, but you've already been proven wrong by that fast list. We'll see, maybe I'll get a set of rear slicks and buy an extra spare for the front with some bolt-ons I can install myself (no intake manifolds). Have a budget of 4k total with receipts and run close to what a stock c6z can do, because according to you I or an average joe can't do it. :rollseyes
what the hell are you doing here with FACTS man, pssshhhh
theres no room for those when arguing with the 5.hate crowd....facts...pshh:rollseyes
Sick03Vert
Banned
Yeah...some people definitely are.
I think you nailed all the main points :beer:
Not my problem. I understand power:weight ratio and how it translates at the track. Guess some Vette and Terminator guys thinks 5.0's are high 12's modded at best and C6Z's are 10.20's stock.:nonono:
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Again bench racing does not equal facts?
You are ignoring HP/TQ curves, tires, suspension.
Simply using HP numbers and weight gives you an ESTIMATE of how things MAY go with EVERYTHING being equal aka drivers, no spin, HP/Torque near identical.
Using glory runs as a fair representation of the 5.0 platform is not really honest.
Search here...you can find N/A Cobras in the 10's as well? Does that mean it is a fair representation of the platform or most Cobras are a good run with a stock Z?
No.
I think that is what most Cobra and Z owners are trying to point out
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you know you can get a used C6Z or boss for the same price as a new 5.0 premium. I own a green boss also through my shop it was 38k with 25 miles on it. the 5.0 is not that cheap.
for the people that think im 5.0 jealous. I have been down the track 100's of time's in a BOSS that's modded. I choose it as my shop car. but I know what it's capable of and what they are not unlike the delusions of granduer most 5.0 owners retain.
I know i'm late here...didn't see this post.
Nice boss FYI except the wheels aren't so much my cup of tea.
Let me just play devils advocate for a minute.... People were just talking all high and mighty of how wonderful C6Z's held their value.... you mean to tell me they can be had for ~40k ? Hmmm, basically a 50% value drop in the life of a loan ? That seems pretty garbage to me.
I can tell you that most decent mileage Terminators are still going for 20's mach's are in the 16-17k range and they're 11 years old. 50% of what I paid for my car(new) would be $13,800 You really think in 5-6 years that's what they'll be selling for ? I highly doubt it.
Not sure what mods are done to your boss. But, as far as how fast it is straight line, I can pretty much tell you with those heavy ass wheels stock for stock a 5.0 would likely beat you. As far as power is concerned Boss really isn't that much of a difference with the exception of it'll handle more once you start going FI. But in terms of staying NA. it's basically the same thing.
Handling and Looking Bad ass it certainly gets the win there
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I'm using the "glory runs" as you call them as an example. It's the exact same platform comparing a modded 5.0 on a diet compared to a modded 5.0 with newer parts that ARE indeed proven to equal more power. Again, it's a fairly new setup.
I never said MOST 5.0's can keep up with a stock c6z. I said any 5.0 investing about 4k in a specific set of mods is a worthy opponent for a stock c6z. You can twist the words around any way you want. fact still remains. it is 100% doable and possible.
The cobrajet IM w/ e-85 setup will become every bit as popular as the Boss 302 IM setup. Or a 6# lower cobra, a Livernois stage 4+ SHO which might I add is 5-7 tenths from being a contender as well with only a tune and full exhaust ~$1500 bucks
I'll accept since it's new ya'll aren't believers :rockon:
Based on the numbers in your signature, I would say your car doesn't exactly fit the mold of the C6Z's that are being referenced in this thread.
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Sick03Vert
Banned
:bored:
whats an NA cobra?
Assming he's talking 93 Fox or 94-98 SN95 or 2000 Cobra R or 1999, 2001-2002 New Edge. All of which (minus the Cobra R) are pushing it to get 12.50's NA w/o internal engine modification. let alone 10's Guy wants to split hairs over half a second but then want's to throw out a topic that's over 2 seconds off base.
Maybe there is something else special about those 02' cobra's other than being right hand drive?!
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Oh my, reality is a Bitch. Stay in the virtual world.....:lol1:
A 5 year old GT for reference....Your Blue Book® Value: 2009 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe Coupe: Private Party Value: Good Condition:$13,697, Fair Condition: $12,297
Trade in is much less.
And it will be Less with any mods. Oh noes......:idea:
Not exactly a valid argument. If you were dumb enough to buy a weak ass 3V car then you deserve for that to happen to you. Besides Blue Book doesn't really mean jack shit. Insurance companies use NADA and if you decide to let something go on trade in, you have to to know how to play the game most dealers shoot you at black book which is auction price. Unless you're looking at paying sticker price for something.
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I am sure your all-mighty Base GT will be reselling for $20k+ in the next 6 years, my bad. Shame for those schmucks that bought the lowly Z06 new. Keep up the corner case arguments if it helps you feel better about yourself. I may suggest a self-esteem class if all this cheerleading is all about feeling better about your car. Can't help with your lack of intelligence, that may be a result of layered inbreeding. Damn Noobs.
Sick03Vert
Banned
:dw:
It's EXACTLY a valid argument.
You clearly weren't in the market when the 2005 GT came out. They sold like hot cakes. People were paying OVER STICKER just to have one. The retro styling was all that. Now.....dime a dozen.
The 5.0 is the new kid on the block. If you truly believe that Ford will sit on their ass and do nothing for the next 6 years just to keep your resale value up, you are kidding yourself. In that amount of time there will be a new and even better GT that comes along to steal the thunder..and yes, you will see 5.0 GT's fall into the teens pricewise at that point, if not sooner depending on market saturation.
New Cobras have come along too technically (GT500) and have not hurt the values of the 03/04's. Why? Because it's a Cobra. Why do GT500's hold value? Because it's a Cobra. The higher the trim level on a vehicle, the more value it will retain. SURELY, you must be able to acknowledge that.
I'm beginning to think Ford screwed up with the Coyote block. Everyone sees it as the second coming just because they put some power into the GT finally and brought back the 5.0 nameplate. Now those of us who have been into Mustangs forever and a day have to listen to all the high school kids talk about how their GT is "teh fastestest Mustang evarrr...omgerzzzz!" :bored:
Shit is getting old, and we aren't even 5 years into the engine. Retarded. :fm:
I've got a weak ass 3v that would love to show ya how weak it is.
You are a cocky guy man. The 5.0 is not the cats ass like you think it is. Great car, but at the end of the day your modded 5.0 is just like mine. A glorified GT.
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