CJ 5.0 vs unknown random c6z

[Jayls5]

I'm trying to figure this out. Why would the OP's n/a mods with E85 tune beat a C6Z? What kind of power is it making? Dyno it yet?

C6 Z06 is 3150 pounds and generally dyno 440-460whp stock. Even with reduction, the GT is going to be much heavier. I'm genuinely curious to see the GT's numbers.

 

[Voltwings]

You guys are getting hung up on a few things, but not taking the whole picture into perspective, namely the powerband. A stock z06 powerband flatlines and starts dropping at 6, so lets assume if he's a decent driver he's shifting between ~6000-6200 rpms. Now, lets take a CJ Coyote that can rev to 7500+ rpms... with 3.31's at 55 in 2nd thats like 5k rpm, more than enough to match the hit (or even get the hit) on a vette thats lower in the rev range. Its a lot easier to get a jump than it is to play catch up, so if the vette was pulling back even a little, its obviously is the faster car. However, to some people, staying ahead until 130+ still counts as a win. "I would have caught you at 150!" Well, i'm sure you would have, but i was ahead 99% of the race, soooooo ... With no clear ending point, "winning" is subjective.

*Note ^^ trying not to sound biased since i have a CJ setup ready to go on my 3.31 m6 car . Glad to know it'll be doing alright haha, even though i'll be on 93.

 

[Sick03Vert]

Now N/A 5.0's are puppy kicking C6Z's.

Yeah ok.

 

[ScreamingFast]

Regardless of all the debate good run. I personally think roll racing has to many variables to determine a winner in some cases.

 

[pho_phizzat]

You guys are getting hung up on a few things, but not taking the whole picture into perspective, namely the powerband. A stock z06 powerband flatlines and starts dropping at 6, so lets assume if he's a decent driver he's shifting between ~6000-6200 rpms. Now, lets take a CJ Coyote that can rev to 7500+ rpms... with 3.31's at 55 in 2nd thats like 5k rpm, more than enough to match the hit (or even get the hit) on a vette thats lower in the rev range. Its a lot easier to get a jump than it is to play catch up, so if the vette was pulling back even a little, its obviously is the faster car. However, to some people, staying ahead until 130+ still counts as a win. "I would have caught you at 150!" Well, i'm sure you would have, but i was ahead 99% of the race, soooooo ... With no clear ending point, "winning" is subjective.

*Note ^^ trying not to sound biased since i have a CJ setup ready to go on my 3.31 m6 car . Glad to know it'll be doing alright haha, even though i'll be on 93.

6200? Where did you get that? C6zs redline at 7k and make over 400ft lbs at 4000 rpm through 6500. You guys are nuts

 

[Voltwings]

6200? Where did you get that? C6zs redline at 7k and make over 400ft lbs at 4000 rpm through 6500. You guys are nuts

look at any stock dyno on google... Redline at 7k, and making power to 7k, are two completely different things. Google it.

Heres one for example.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3269570-stock-c6-z06-dyno-numbers.html

Second, if you know the equation for horsepower (torque x rpm ) / 5252, you'd know that 400 ft/lbs at 6500 rpms is 495.04 horsepower. I don't think a Stock C6z06, rated at 505 crank, is putting down 495 whp. However, after looking closer at a dyno, I will correct my earlier statement and say they're shifting around 6500. The first graph I looked at looked like it fell off much harder. At any rate, my point remains the same though, the Coyote still has a huge rpm advantage.

 

[Tx5811]

What were you smoking that day op? Lol

 

[Mystic03]

View attachment 12561

Now N/A 5.0's are puppy kicking C6Z's.

Yeah ok.

my thoughts exactly...sounds like he beat the driver not the car

 

[pho_phizzat]

look at any stock dyno on google... Redline at 7k, and making power to 7k, are two completely different things. Google it.

Heres one for example.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3269570-stock-c6-z06-dyno-numbers.html

Second, if you know the equation for horsepower (torque x rpm ) / 5252, you'd know that 400 ft/lbs at 6500 rpms is 495.04 horsepower. I don't think a Stock C6z06, rated at 505 crank, is putting down 495 whp. However, after looking closer at a dyno, I will correct my earlier statement and say they're shifting around 6500. The first graph I looked at looked like it fell off much harder. At any rate, my point remains the same though, the Coyote still has a huge rpm advantage.

The 5.0 has no advantage. (aside from driver maybe) What does the typical CJ intake bolt on 5.0 trap?

 

[FivePointOmg]

The 5.0 has no advantage. (aside from driver maybe) What does the typical CJ intake bolt on 5.0 trap?

Low to mid 120's considering they'll be E85 90% of the time and also include LT headers and several other mods and be 450+whp with a light weight big/little setup...You guys are funny with the "typical" trap thing too...The "typical" CJ Coyote is going to have SEVERAL other mods whether is LT headers, E85, etc that will make it a VERY stout setup...Just from reading your posts you really have ZERO clue about Coyote's and ride on the nuts of the other nutswingers on this forum who firmly believe all Coyote's trap 110mph and can't gain power from mods LOL...Hey my Coyote dyno'd 416 to the wheels on 93 octane with only CAI and catless X pipe over the weekend on a dyno that reads low. Yea mine probably traps 110mph too bahahaha

 

[Voltwings]

Deleted.

 

[QuickC5Z]

look at any stock dyno on google... Redline at 7k, and making power to 7k, are two completely different things. Google it.

Heres one for example.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3269570-stock-c6-z06-dyno-numbers.html

Second, if you know the equation for horsepower (torque x rpm ) / 5252, you'd know that 400 ft/lbs at 6500 rpms is 495.04 horsepower. I don't think a Stock C6z06, rated at 505 crank, is putting down 495 whp. However, after looking closer at a dyno, I will correct my earlier statement and say they're shifting around 6500. The first graph I looked at looked like it fell off much harder. At any rate, my point remains the same though, the Coyote still has a huge rpm advantage.

You're supposed to shift 500rpm past peak rpm.
Also I wasn't awate that rpm alone posed a "huge" advantage. I guess 500 horsepower at 8k is better than 500 horsepower at 7k .
Truth of the matter is the power curves of an LS7 makes the coyotes power curves look like a 6 cylinder. The fact a coyote has to rev to the moon is due to its small engine not capable of producing power at low engine speeds. Thats not an advantage.

 

[Voltwings]

You're supposed to shift 500rpm past peak rpm.
Also I wasn't awate that rpm alone posed a "huge" advantage. I guess 500 horsepower at 8k is better than 500 horsepower at 7k .
Truth of the matter is the power curves of an LS7 makes the coyotes power curves look like a 6 cylinder. The fact a coyote has to rev to the moon is due to its small engine not capable of producing power at low engine speeds. Thats not an advantage.

Rev range is beneficial namely on the hit, If you have to launch and immediatly shift, you're not doing yourself any favors. I'm editing this post, because it appears the Z06 redliens at 90 in 2nd. I was going to say that a longer rev range is beneficial on the hit if you can hold a gear out and avoid shifting, and this could have explained how the Coyote was able to get a hit on a z06. I know my car with 3.31's is also right around 85-90 at the end of 2nd though (7500) rpm, so thats now a moot point.

All i am saying is that it is possible for the mustang to have gotten a hit, no one here is saying the mustang is the faster car, even OP clearly states he was getting pulled. However, i dont think people really appreciate the potency of these Cobrajet setups, plenty of people making 475-500 whp all motor depending on supporting mods and trapping 120-126 as was stated. Obviously there are entirely too many variables in both street and track racing, i myself have never put too much stock in trap speeds because a '13 gt500 traps 123... i know i my coyote will not be a gt500 killer, BUT a 12x trap speed all motor is impressive nonetheless.

 

[QuickC5Z]

Rev range is beneficial namely on the hit, If you have to launch and immediatly shift, you're not doing yourself any favors. If the coyote launched at 55 in 2nd he's over 5k, in the meat of the powerband, and doesnt have to shift until 7500... thats a long time to be able to hold that first gear, and likely explains how he was able to get a jump. That being said, the fallback point for any rpm will be the same after that, so really the advantage comes from that first gear. The vette and the mustang are making around the same horsepower, give or a take a few, and at that low of speed, the only advantage the vette has is weight.

Brah horsepower is horsepower. Coyotes dont have great power curves this is why they're geared so aggressively. Whats the mt82 first gear? 3.80s? If I had that first gear I would 60ft low 1.40s. C6Zs and LS engines in general aren't geared that aggresively is cause they have great power curves and make lots of torque. Same thing with 03 04 cobras.

 

[Voltwings]

Brah horsepower is horsepower. Coyotes dont have great power curves this is why they're geared so aggressively. Whats the mt82 first gear? 3.80s? If I had that first gear I would 60ft low 1.40s. C6Zs and LS engines in general aren't geared that aggresively is cause they have great power curves and make lots of torque. Same thing with 03 04 cobras.

^^ Note that i edited my original statement after doing a little more research on the Z06 gearing. I prefer not to talk out of my ass and can admit when i've said something wrong. However, your statement is kind of ironic considering the Mustang and vette are likely making around the same horsepower... If "horsepower is horsepower" you can admit launching at 5000 and shifting at 7000 is no different than launching at 5500 and shifting at 7500 since horsepower is a derivitive of torque and RPM, and what the coyote lacks in torque it makes up in RPM.

 

[Sick03Vert]

Regardless of all the debate good run. I personally think roll racing has to many variables to determine a winner in some cases.

With respect to your opinion, I feel exactly the opposite. There's a lot more variables in a dig race than a roll race.

In a roll race, the driver's ability to launch doesn't matter. It's much more a showing of car vs car than driver vs driver, and that's what I prefer...to see who has the faster car.

But to each there own, and like I said, I'm not saying you're wrong and I respect your opinion. :beer:

 

[QuickC5Z]

^^ Note that i edited my original statement after doing a little more research on the Z06 gearing. I prefer not to talk out of my ass and can admit when i've said something wrong. However, your statement is kind of ironic considering the Mustang and vette are likely making around the same horsepower... If "horsepower is horsepower" you can admit launching at 5000 and shifting at 7000 is no different than launching at 5500 and shifting at 7500 since horsepower is a derivitive of torque and RPM, and what the coyote lacks in torque it makes up in RPM.

Yes horsepower is horsepower. If you can make the sane peak numbers as a larger more like an LS7, you're most likely ginna make less power in every other rpm. The larger LS7 will maintain higher average numbers.

As for the coyotes lack of torque thats where gearing comes in. Gears multiply wheel torque and help get the motor faster in the upper rpm ranges.

 

[Voltwings]

Yes horsepower is horsepower. If you can make the sane peak numbers as a larger more like an LS7, you're most likely ginna make less power in every other rpm. The larger LS7 will maintain higher average numbers.

As for the coyotes lack of torque thats where gearing comes in. Gears multiply wheel torque and help get the motor faster in the upper rpm ranges.

I still think you're looking at this wrong... Either that or im not really understanding your argument. If you compare the same rev ranges of an N/a 5.0L vs an N/a 7.0L i agree hands down the 7.0L will have a higher average power. However, we're not comparing the same rev ranges, we have established the coyote is reving higher, so when you compare the relevant range (rpm fall back to shift point) of these two particular vehicles i think you'd actually see the averages are much closer. Unless you meant the Ls7 will maintain higher average TORQUE numbers (not power), and in that case i again will agree with you.

 

[mystickb1996]

i just wanna see a damn video already of some street racing with the CJ intake or even 1/4... i really have complimented doing it, just haven't seen alot of runs or 1/4 times with it for the 1500.00 dollars it costs

 

[QuickC5Z]

I still think you're looking at this wrong... Either that or im not really understanding your argument. If you compare the same rev ranges of an N/a 5.0L vs an N/a 7.0L i agree hands down the 7.0L will have a higher average power. However, we're not comparing the same rev ranges, we have established the coyote is reving higher, so when you compare the relevant range (rpm fall back to shift point) of these two particular vehicles i think you'd actually see the averages are much closer. Unless you meant the Ls7 will maintain higher average TORQUE numbers (not power), and in that case i again will agree with you.

When I say average I mean average horsepower through out the entire operating rpm range. Not same rpm. Mustang dynos usually give you your average hp numbers. Peak hp numbers aren't everything.