Deciding between P.P S550 or 03/04 Cobra

[choate]

To the OP: the 03-04 cobra is a much more 'raw' car: it drives way different than the newer s550. If you dig the older tech, older chassis and a more brutal car: go for the 03-04 cobra. If you dig more refined power, better chassis and newer tech: go for the s550.

Keep in mind: the 03-04 cobras are nearly 15 years old now. There will be more 'annoying' issues with the 03-04 vs a 2015+. You'll be spending money/time to fix things like worn suspension, leaks, etc... An s550 should be in pretty decent shape and you can put more money into mods.

This advice is spot on. I can't speak to the s550 but I have a 2012 5.0 and to me (this could vary person to person) but the Terminator is a TOTAL blast to drive. It's unreal how much fun it is. The sounds and the feeling is unlike anything I've ever driven. They are older cars though and have their issues that pop up. Better have some money set aside for not only mods b/c the bug bites HARD, but also repairs. Its an expensive hobby.

I don't see how you would NOT like a Terminator though if you got a good one. That's my vote.

 

[Kiohtee]

A lot of good info in here. Let me add something to the mix not touched on and perhaps not even thought about though...

Assuming you have difficulty finding an institution that will 100% finance the cost of a '03-04 Cobra, you'll likely being coming out of pocket for one more than if you were to put a down payment on an S550 (that's mod money BTW). For the out of pocket cost of the '03-04 you decide on, you could probably supercharge/turbocharge the S550 and mitigate any "raw" feeling it lacks in comparison to a Terminator.

The downside is the S550 is a very refined car and will never feel as raw as a Terminator all things equal.

My money would be on the S550 (ideally a '13-14 GT though).

 

[Steve@TF]

all this advice popping up and yet nobody asks the OP why he is the chosen one to have ford racing, motor trend, etc fly him out a racing school. how did that happen?! do share.

 

[Mpoitrast87]

More important question. What does one have to do to get flown to race mustangs?

 

[choate]

Assuming you have difficulty finding an institution that will 100% finance the cost of a '03-04 Cobra, you'll likely being coming out of pocket for one more than if you were to put a down payment on an S550 (that's mod money BTW). For the out of pocket cost of the '03-04 you decide on, you could probably supercharge/turbocharge the S550 and mitigate any "raw" feeling it lacks in comparison to a Terminator.

The downside is the S550 is a very refined car and will never feel as raw as a Terminator all things equal.

My money would be on the S550 (ideally a '13-14 GT though).

I didn't think of this but very true. I ran into this same thing. It wasn't a big deal because I had some money saved but the best I could do (Banks wouldn't touch it, only a credit union and I have excellent credit) is a 16k loan on a car I paid 20k for. They told me that's what it was worth and all they'd loan. Understandable on an old car but yeah this is sound advice and something to consider

 

[Steve@TF]

If it's a Daily, S550.

If it's a toy/play/love affair, Terminator all day.

References: Bought a new 2016 PP GT for a toy. Sold it within a year because the IRS blows and the paint quality sucks.

ive read this maybe twice now. are there any threads dedicated to the discussion of the S550s IRS? and how it sucks and why. honestly curious. its the one major thing i really miss from my terminator and wish my gt500 had.

is it worse than a camaro or challengers irs? since theyre all mass produced and competitors.

 

[RedVenom48]

Theres always the supercharged Rousch or Shelby American option

 

[Tifosi2003GT]

I'm looking to buy a Gt350, but keep my cobra... I would never ever be able to sell my 03. Just seeing one pass by me when I'm in my daily makes me happy!!!

 

[IronSnake]

ive read this maybe twice now. are there any threads dedicated to the discussion of the S550s IRS? and how it sucks and why. honestly curious. its the one major thing i really miss from my terminator and wish my gt500 had.

is it worse than a camaro or challengers irs? since theyre all mass produced and competitors.

Steve,

The drive line angle is atrocious and quite possibly highway robbery on the S550. This is due to the pumpkin "hanging" in the cradle assembly. Combine this with the lack of proper alignment from the factory (many find their subframes aren't centered under the car due to oversized holes and undersized bolts), you inevitably end up with a poor design that disregards basic engineering standards like driveline angle and deflection.

Case in point:

As you see, the bolts securing the differential are on the same plane as the ground. Therefore the bushings stand on their end, and since they are winglet type, they sag due to weight. Once driveline load is introduced into the equation, the front of the differential rises and falls based on the load introduced. This GREATLY changes the driveline angle that already starts out horrible and NVH goes all to hell.

So most think, just install solid bushings then or hell, even poly. Well that's great, except it's been proven that under hard load, the ears like to break and the bolts are designed with the threaded portion in shear. Big companies have come out and tried to adjust for driveline angle that gets amplified when using a one piece driveshaft, however the only way to properly fix this is by jacking with the transmission mount, engine mounts, and canting the IRS assembly up or down on the front mounting points.

Needless to say without saying more, it's a bit of a cluster ****. As someone that poured a lot of money into his car, the IRS in the S550 is trash and deserves to be hated. The simple fact they hung the differential on four bolts in shear tells me Ford really gave zero shits. Compound with the crap paint quality, they can keep it. The coyote doesn't make up for crap engineering elsewhere.

Steven

 

[choate]

I would never ever be able to sell my 03. Just seeing one pass by me when I'm in my daily makes me happy!!!

I'm the same. It's hard to describe isn't it. They are just something special.

 

[Steve@TF]

Steve,

The drive line angle is atrocious and quite possibly highway robbery on the S550. This is due to the pumpkin "hanging" in the cradle assembly. Combine this with the lack of proper alignment from the factory (many find their subframes aren't centered under the car due to oversized holes and undersized bolts), you inevitably end up with a poor design that disregards basic engineering standards like driveline angle and deflection.

Case in point:

As you see, the bolts securing the differential are on the same plane as the ground. Therefore the bushings stand on their end, and since they are winglet type, they sag due to weight. Once driveline load is introduced into the equation, the front of the differential rises and falls based on the load introduced. This GREATLY changes the driveline angle that already starts out horrible and NVH goes all to hell.

So most think, just install solid bushings then or hell, even poly. Well that's great, except it's been proven that under hard load, the ears like to break and the bolts are designed with the threaded portion in shear. Big companies have come out and tried to adjust for driveline angle that gets amplified when using a one piece driveshaft, however the only way to properly fix this is by jacking with the transmission mount, engine mounts, and canting the IRS assembly up or down on the front mounting points.

Needless to say without saying more, it's a bit of a cluster ****. As someone that poured a lot of money into his car, the IRS in the S550 is trash and deserves to be hated. The simple fact they hung the differential on four bolts in shear tells me Ford really gave zero shits. Compound with the crap paint quality, they can keep it. The coyote doesn't make up for crap engineering elsewhere.

Steven

well thats disappointing. supposed to be the new world car that would change the game blah blah blah. how does it compare to the Camaros IRS? they went from stick to IRS as well when the 5th gen came out. did they get it right the first time or have issues as well? with all the time they've had to work on that IRS and all the engineers at their disposal im surprised. is it an issue for DD regular folks? more of an issue for people who modify and drive the cars hard? or issue for everyone?
does the GT350 have the same issues? i would imagine theyre the same

 

[IronSnake]

well thats disappointing. supposed to be the new world car that would change the game blah blah blah. how does it compare to the Camaros IRS? they went from stick to IRS as well when the 5th gen came out. did they get it right the first time or have issues as well? with all the time they've had to work on that IRS and all the engineers at their disposal im surprised. is it an issue for DD regular folks? more of an issue for people who modify and drive the cars hard? or issue for everyone?
does the GT350 have the same issues? i would imagine theyre the same

To put it into perspective, my car wheel hopped turning out of my apartment complex every morning if it was even remotely cool or damp out.

So yes, DD folks deal with it a lot. My car prior to the Steeda lockouts wheel hopped from the factory to the point I hated breaking traction.

For 32k, I was disappointed. No idea on the Camaro. They seem to be better as they're setting tracks on fire compared to Mustangs right now.

 

[03cobra#694]

The 03-04's also had undersized sub frame bolts.

 

[smitty2919]

OP said it won't be stock...so clearly a S550 with a roots blower and piss on the Cobra with it outdated interior/creature comforts.

You guys are comparing a SC car to a NA car. Compare apples to apples at least. You can't gawk at the instant torque of the Cobra and find that as a flaw with the S550. Put the same mods into the S550 then compare them. This isn't a "what car is best bang for the buck" or "I want 500hp the cheapest way possible between Cobra and S550". All things considered in terms of creature comforts/potential I'd go S550. S550 is more of a "I want my cake and eat it too". Cobras will be flawed with interior rattles etc from the cheap interior. I've owned 3 new edge cars, not ragged out and under 100k mi and they rattled/cheap feeling. But enough sound deadener etc anything can be fixed LOL

Also, pass on NAV. Unless it is out of this world amazing image quality, that's what your phone is for IMO. I couldn't justify the added cost of NAV. I don't travel much, but when I do I just look it up online before I leave and have my phone if needed. Wife and I looked into 2016-17 Subaru Imprezas with NAV...no thanks. I have no clue if a Mustang NAV would be much better or not.

 

[Steve@TF]

OP said it won't be stock...so clearly a S550 with a roots blower and piss on the Cobra with it outdated interior/creature comforts.

You guys are comparing a SC car to a NA car. Compare apples to apples at least. You can't gawk at the instant torque of the Cobra and find that as a flaw with the S550. Put the same mods into the S550 then compare them. This isn't a "what car is best bang for the buck" or "I want 500hp the cheapest way possible between Cobra and S550". All things considered in terms of creature comforts/potential I'd go S550. S550 is more of a "I want my cake and eat it too". Cobras will be flawed with interior rattles etc from the cheap interior. I've owned 3 new edge cars, not ragged out and under 100k mi and they rattled/cheap feeling. But enough sound deadener etc anything can be fixed LOL

Also, pass on NAV. Unless it is out of this world amazing image quality, that's what your phone is for IMO. I couldn't justify the added cost of NAV. I don't travel much, but when I do I just look it up online before I leave and have my phone if needed. Wife and I looked into 2016-17 Subaru Imprezas with NAV...no thanks. I have no clue if a Mustang NAV would be much better or not.

thats why i love my gt500. still a little raw with instant power like the terminator but more comfy and updated like an S550. a little bit of both worlds without too much of either. plus its built solid. the only weak link ive seen is the clutch.

it also depends on your budget. for $25k you can get a nice terminator. or a 2015 S550. to get a newer S550 or one with more options it will cost you more. then add another, what, $7k to put a blower on it? and that's not all. who wants a bone stock S550 with a blower slapped on? the stock wheels are hideous. can the manual trans in the S550, bone stock, handle a blower upgrade? ive seen/met guys with bone stock terminators that love them as is. i dont think anyone (unless theyre broke) leaves an S550 bone stock. at least enthusiasts wise.

i like both cars. the terminator is far more special and unique. modded S550s are all over the place. you pull into a muscle car meet or C&C with a modded S550 and people will roll their eyes and say "great, another mustang". roll in with a terminator and they'll say, those beasts. i remember when those were whipping everybody etc... so as usual it comes down to what you want to do with the car and what kind of experience you are looking for.

also, especially if its a weekend toy, you can insure the terminator as a collector car and pay half of what the insurance on an S550 will cost you. just another expense to consider. and resale value. if you get bored of either one, which one will you take the bigger hit on? im sure plenty of terminator owners plan to keep their cars "forever". i say this about my gt500. how many S550 owners plan to do the same?

 

[choate]

thats why i love my gt500. still a little raw with instant power like the terminator but more comfy and updated like an S550. a little bit of both worlds without too much of either. plus its built solid. the only weak link ive seen is the clutch.

it also depends on your budget. for $25k you can get a nice terminator. or a 2015 S550. to get a newer S550 or one with more options it will cost you more. then add another, what, $7k to put a blower on it? and that's not all. who wants a bone stock S550 with a blower slapped on? the stock wheels are hideous. can the manual trans in the S550, bone stock, handle a blower upgrade? ive seen/met guys with bone stock terminators that love them as is. i dont think anyone (unless theyre broke) leaves an S550 bone stock. at least enthusiasts wise.

i like both cars. the terminator is far more special and unique. modded S550s are all over the place. you pull into a muscle car meet or C&C with a modded S550 and people will roll their eyes and say "great, another mustang". roll in with a terminator and they'll say, those beasts. i remember when those were whipping everybody etc... so as usual it comes down to what you want to do with the car and what kind of experience you are looking for.

also, especially if its a weekend toy, you can insure the terminator as a collector car and pay half of what the insurance on an S550 will cost you. just another expense to consider. and resale value. if you get bored of either one, which one will you take the bigger hit on? im sure plenty of terminator owners plan to keep their cars "forever". i say this about my gt500. how many S550 owners plan to do the same?

It's pretty obvious I'm very passionate about the Terminator as is 98% of anyone that has ever owned one. That being said, my 2012 (I know it's not an S550 but hear me out to those reading) has some good visual and performance mods. Staggered wheels, wide rear tires, lowered 1.5", splitters on the side, GT500 spoiler, grill, etc. Sits pretty low and looks mean. A few people here and there will give me the nice stang or I like your mustang comment, but I'm telling you almost EVERY SINGLE TIME i'm at a gas station in the Terminator, I get people asking about it. It's pretty crazy how much attention it gets. I think the fact of the sound and then the look and it says cobra across the back in chrome they start wondering what's going on there and what is that exactly if they don't know, or if they do know then it's an even longer conversation which I don't mind one bit. The interior, who cares. Mine doesn't rattle one bit btw. The OP asked about a weekend fun car. This is all just my opinion but the Terminator is 1000% more fun to drive than any new car. They are mostly boring to drive. Who cares about blue tooth audio, aerospace guages, perfect leather stitching and fake carbon fiber dashes when you are just driving for fun on the back roads with a roaring exhaust and a screaming supercharger while getting goose bumps banging gears. Or you can sit back in your super nice s550 and listen to Barry Manilow on the nice system while sitting in your cooled seats and AC on high. Just my $0.02. Ask yourself, do you want a race car feel, or a Cadillac feel for fun?

 

[gimmie11s]

Oh gawd. Here we go.

Never knew white knights wore driving gloves.

****s sake.


OP,

If you can swing it, an s550 with boost will shit on 99% of 03/04 cobras out there.

Total "cake an eat it too" kind of car.

 

[ZYBORG]

**** fail-550s. Cobra all the way!

Just kidding! Lololol...

But serious, if it is to be a daily, 550 is better suited. If toy, cobra all the way.

If you do go with the cobra, 2 things:

Dont ever wear driving gloves and dont ever ever call it a "termi".

Best of luck.

 

[IamRacerX]

The biggest disadvantage with a na coyote compared to the Terminator is its lack of low rpm torque. Even more so with the GT350 FPC set up too..... I drive my brothers 335 BMW and it feels faster and more zippy in daily driving.... But my Boss can destroy it every which way. But in a quick spirited drive, the 335 feels faster.

 

[08mojo]

Steve,

The drive line angle is atrocious and quite possibly highway robbery on the S550. This is due to the pumpkin "hanging" in the cradle assembly. Combine this with the lack of proper alignment from the factory (many find their subframes aren't centered under the car due to oversized holes and undersized bolts), you inevitably end up with a poor design that disregards basic engineering standards like driveline angle and deflection.

Case in point:

As you see, the bolts securing the differential are on the same plane as the ground. Therefore the bushings stand on their end, and since they are winglet type, they sag due to weight. Once driveline load is introduced into the equation, the front of the differential rises and falls based on the load introduced. This GREATLY changes the driveline angle that already starts out horrible and NVH goes all to hell.

So most think, just install solid bushings then or hell, even poly. Well that's great, except it's been proven that under hard load, the ears like to break and the bolts are designed with the threaded portion in shear. Big companies have come out and tried to adjust for driveline angle that gets amplified when using a one piece driveshaft, however the only way to properly fix this is by jacking with the transmission mount, engine mounts, and canting the IRS assembly up or down on the front mounting points.

Needless to say without saying more, it's a bit of a cluster ****. As someone that poured a lot of money into his car, the IRS in the S550 is trash and deserves to be hated. The simple fact they hung the differential on four bolts in shear tells me Ford really gave zero shits. Compound with the crap paint quality, they can keep it. The coyote doesn't make up for crap engineering elsewhere.

Steven

This is how every car I've had with IRS is designed. The bolts are parallel to the drive-train. I don't know if that's an engineering design-flaw, but it's certainly not uncommon.

There are also a lot of people having great success with the IRS on the S550. I've seen a lot of examples of people in the 10's with very little, or no, mods to the rear pumpkin--or rear suspension. So, clearly it is working.

My 2016 did wheel hop from the factory, but I blame the POS pirelli p-zero tires. I recently switched to Michelin PSS and the wheel hop is completely gone--that was the only change.