Done with Ford

[Sonic Blue GT]

I assure you, from reading your posts, at 22 years old I have more education than you do.

And I can assure you that you don't. You being just a mere 22 years of age I am sure you do not have a single clue about any part of real-life yet with the exception of knowing that you exist.

You are clueless kid...you are greener than the color of green iteself and are just too ignorant to understand it yet because you just don't have enough years on this earth yet to have gained any experience yet other than fulfilling your fantasies you thought of as a teenager...

There is no valid argument that you can make that proves otherwise because you cannot talk about something that you just haven't lived yet.

....Experience IS the best teacher as I am sure you being as arrogant as you are will find out....then we will see who laughs last....

 

[beabout]

DAMN, Worse case of testosterone poisoning I have ever seen.

 

[Sonic Blue GT]

DAMN, Worse case of testosterone poisoning I have ever seen.

I say the same thing about people under 25 years of age...worst case of estrogen poisoning I ever seen.:bored:

 

[mrGT]

Please explain how leasing cars benefits business owners and not regular everyday folk as well.

What is it that business owners have that makes leasing cars worth it, but not regular old Joe Smith?

Basically, a business can claim lease payments as a direct tax deduction. If a business buys outright, they are forced into depreciating the assest. And if you are a regular folk, like me, you get NO income tax benefit....as is the same with interest on a personal loan.

You can look at a lease as a balloon payment type loan. In most cases, dealers won't deal with a leaser like they do a buyer, so you typically have a higher price for the auto. The residual on a lease is usually the depreciated value of the vehicle at the end of the lease. So in affect with a lease, you are borrowing money from the dealer with a balloon payment of the car at the end. Keep in mind that leases have many restrictions. Because the depreciated value of the car is based on mileage and condition, you have to declare your yearly mileage at the time of lease. Going over that mileage amount typically comes with a high $/mile over, which you will have to cough up when you turn the car in. The car will be inspected and it will be expected to be returned in with only normal wear and tear....and that is the dealers judgement call, not yours. Another cost could arise out of that inspection. Typically, you can not make a lease for 4 years and then turn it in 2 without paying an addititional amount because a depreciation schedule for a car is not linear. (The way you see that is have the dealer price a 4 yr lease and a 2 yr lease. It will be obvious when he gives you monthly lease amounts.)

I have found that non-business people lease because they want a new car and don't have the down payment or the money they would have used is earning more than the value of lease.

To buy your lease car at the end of the lease, you pay the residual stated on your lease. Sometimes this works in your favor because the vehicle is worth more and sometimes it's better off to turn the vehicle in when it's worth lease. If you want, when you near the end of your lease try to sell your vehicle and see if you can get more than the lease residual.

 

[ac427cobra]

Ok Guys:

Knock the name calling off right NOW! :nono: Next one to name call is getting a vacation.:read:

If you can't converse in a civil manner, I'll just close the thread!? :idea:

 

[Screamin Cobra]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!:fart:

:lol::lol::lol: LMAO, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[NinetySixSVT]

I have never leased a car, but what happens if you want to buy it at the end of the term? I was just going on my accounting professor
It all comes down to personal situation, because for me, I have had bad luck with used cars, and not just performance cars but my DD 2004 Mazda 6 bought with 15k miles, the thing sucks ass, well the tranny is a pos I mean, the rest is fine and dandy

Some leases have a "buy back" (I think it's called?) option where you can buy the car after the lease is up. However, this is not a good financial way to buy a car either because you will pay more than if you just outright bought it.

For the used car thing...well I can understand that point. But I'm just saying, used cars have the best financial value.

 

[NinetySixSVT]

And I can assure you that you don't. You being just a mere 22 years of age I am sure you do not have a single clue about any part of real-life yet with the exception of knowing that you exist.

You are clueless kid...you are greener than the color of green iteself and are just too ignorant to understand it yet because you just don't have enough years on this earth yet to have gained any experience yet other than fulfilling your fantasies you thought of as a teenager...

There is no valid argument that you can make that proves otherwise because you cannot talk about something that you just haven't lived yet.

....Experience IS the best teacher as I am sure you being as arrogant as you are will find out....then we will see who laughs last....

After all that...you didn't even respond to my posts. NOR have you PMed me your "cpa's" information so I can "find out" why it makes financial sense to buy a brand new car.

Oh and to top it off, you haven't provided one shred of evidence that buying a brand new car is a sound financial decision.

What's up old man? Educate me please. Please provide evidence supporting your claim buying a brand new car is sound economics.

 

[Sonic Blue GT]

After all that...you didn't even respond to my posts. NOR have you PMed me your "cpa's" information so I can "find out" why it makes financial sense to buy a brand new car.

Oh and to top it off, you haven't provided one shred of evidence that buying a brand new car is a sound financial decision.

What's up old man? Educate me please. Please provide evidence supporting your claim buying a brand new car is sound economics.

I took it upon myself to forward to my CPA this thread to review and comment. She called me on the phone and said to me the following:

First and foremost...no car is considered to be an investment, it is instead considered to be a necessity and thus an expense no matter
whether you lease or own the vehicle. So there is no grounds for looking at it as to how much you lose right off the lot because that
is always going to be a given.

Second - the defintion of what "investment" means to everyone on the forum is narrow when talking about lease v. owning.
In this light, investment doesn't just mean how much it is monetarily worth the moment you drive it off the lot. As she stated before
any car whether leased or owned is an expense. However in light of the conversation in the forum an "investment" should also include
how much a person can save as a result of making the purchase through lease v. by ownership.

She said that leasing is better for those folks using the car as part of being incidental to a business. Theh vehicle then becomes a
tax expense given certain conditions irrelevat to this explanation and that's obviouly a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, people who
do not qualify to write the car off as a business expense and who change cars every couple years are still on the loosing end because a leased
car cannot be considered as part of your overall worth and cannot be submitted as collateral for loan considitions because of one simple
fact you cannot get around.....the leasee does NOT own the car. She also stated this stands true for any leasee of a vehicle with the exception
of being incidental to a business.

She also stated that if you own the car, you have the choice as to whether any damage above and beyond normal wear and tear must be addressed.
You DO NOT have that option with a leased vehicle. You as the lessee are reponsible for any damage above normal wera and tear. And if you do not
take car of that damage before the lease is up most contracts will require that not only the damage be deducted from the car but the potential labor
charges as well which are usually 10 to 15% above the average cost of labor repair becaus they are based on a schedule that you as a lessee have
no control over. So it doesn't matter how many estimates you provide as to what the repair cost would be...if you don't get it repaired
before the lease is up then you will pay more for after the fact repairs.

She stated that many will say that is what insurance is for but she again stated that insurance has nothing to do with it other than the fact that
whether you own the car or not you must carry insyrance and you will still be exposed to having your premiums go up.

She then said that the bottom line is this...you can lease the car and give someone else the money and have absolutely nothing to show for it or
you can own the car outright and then have many choices that you do not have when leasing a car. Also she stated that when applying for credit, owning
assets weighs more heavily in the decision as to whether you will get credit AND/OR how much credit you qualify for. Creditors look for assets to
underpin the credit values. If you lease or rent everthing then you are in essence a bigger credit risk because you have no assets that your credit
can be based on. As she stated before, when you lease you cannot list the car as an asset because you do not own the vehicle...you are renting it.
Now an owner who owns the car, even if they are making payments to a bank is allowed to list the car as an asset. When the mumbers are run your assets
better out-weigh your debt...and this is where leases fall flat on their face...leases fall on the debt side of teh equation not the asset side.

She stated that her personal preference would be to own rather than lease because there are more advantages to owning the vehicle that play to a person's
worth and compartively none to leasing other than as a tax break incidental to a business.

So read it and weep 96SVT.....Mr. experience was right after all.....this is what I meant when I said you need to understand what equity is which plays into total worth. But I wouldn't expect that you would understand something like that because you are just too young to have any worth on the credit side of the balance sheet...which the credit side is where alll good things come....learn it, love it and live by it...or you will have nothing to show for it at the end of your years...

So Mr. 96SVT...you are OWNED.........bend over little bitch....

 

[NinetySixSVT]

Basically, a business can claim lease payments as a direct tax deduction. If a business buys outright, they are forced into depreciating the assest. And if you are a regular folk, like me, you get NO income tax benefit....as is the same with interest on a personal loan.

You can look at a lease as a balloon payment type loan. In most cases, dealers won't deal with a leaser like they do a buyer, so you typically have a higher price for the auto. The residual on a lease is usually the depreciated value of the vehicle at the end of the lease. So in affect with a lease, you are borrowing money from the dealer with a balloon payment of the car at the end. Keep in mind that leases have many restrictions. Because the depreciated value of the car is based on mileage and condition, you have to declare your yearly mileage at the time of lease. Going over that mileage amount typically comes with a high $/mile over, which you will have to cough up when you turn the car in. The car will be inspected and it will be expected to be returned in with only normal wear and tear....and that is the dealers judgement call, not yours. Another cost could arise out of that inspection. Typically, you can not make a lease for 4 years and then turn it in 2 without paying an addititional amount because a depreciation schedule for a car is not linear. (The way you see that is have the dealer price a 4 yr lease and a 2 yr lease. It will be obvious when he gives you monthly lease amounts.)

I have found that non-business people lease because they want a new car and don't have the down payment or the money they would have used is earning more than the value of lease.

To buy your lease car at the end of the lease, you pay the residual stated on your lease. Sometimes this works in your favor because the vehicle is worth more and sometimes it's better off to turn the vehicle in when it's worth lease. If you want, when you near the end of your lease try to sell your vehicle and see if you can get more than the lease residual.

Absolutely. All your points are 100% valid. There is no doubt leasing is not THE ONLY best financial decision one can make, because it is based on circumstances. Generall speaking though, leasing is the best value for your money because you get a new car every 2 years.

The point I was making is this: If you want the best value for your money, you lease a car for 2 years (or w/e amount you agree too) and then you trade it in and lease a new car again when that contract is up. You continue to do this, and you have a new car every 2 years.

And if you actually want to own a car, you don't buy it new. Buying a brand new car is an awful investment. That is my entire case, and so far no one has provided any kind of evidence saying otherwise.

That's all I'm saying. Oldman over there is arguing with me that buying a brand new car is good economics...which is just silly.

 

[NinetySixSVT]

I took it upon myself to forward to my CPA this thread to review and comment. She called me on the phone and said to me the following:

First and foremost...no car is considered to be an investment, it is instead considered to be a necessity and thus an expense no matter
whether you lease or own the vehicle. So there is no grounds for looking at it as to how much you lose right off the lot because that
is always going to be a given.

Second - the defintion of what "investment" means to everyone on the forum is narrow when talking about lease v. owning.
In this light, investment doesn't just mean how much it is monetarily worth the moment you drive it off the lot. As she stated before
any car whether leased or owned is an expense. However in light of the conversation in the forum an "investment" should also include
how much a person can save as a result of making the purchase through lease v. by ownership.

She said that leasing is better for those folks using the car as part of being incidental to a business. Theh vehicle then becomes a
tax expense given certain conditions irrelevat to this explanation and that's obviouly a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, people who
do not qualify to write the car off as a business expense and who change cars every couple years are still on the loosing end because a leased
car cannot be considered as part of your overall worth and cannot be submitted as collateral for loan considitions because of one simple
fact you cannot get around.....the leasee does NOT own the car. She also stated this stands true for any leasee of a vehicle with the exception
of being incidental to a business.

She also stated that if you own the car, you have the choice as to whether any damage above and beyond normal wear and tear must be addressed.
You DO NOT have that option with a leased vehicle. You as the lessee are reponsible for any damage above normal wera and tear. And if you do not
take car of that damage before the lease is up most contracts will require that not only the damage be deducted from the car but the potential labor
charges as well which are usually 10 to 15% above the average cost of labor repair becaus they are based on a schedule that you as a lessee have
no control over. So it doesn't matter how many estimates you provide as to what the repair cost would be...if you don't get it repaired
before the lease is up then you will pay more for after the fact repairs.

She stated that many will say that is what insurance is for but she again stated that insurance has nothing to do with it other than the fact that
whether you own the car or not you must carry insyrance and you will still be exposed to having your premiums go up.

She then said that the bottom line is this...you can lease the car and give someone else the money and have absolutely nothing to show for it or
you can own the car outright and then have many choices that you do not have when leasing a car. Also she stated that when applying for credit, owning
assets weighs more heavily in the decision as to whether you will get credit AND/OR how much credit you qualify for. Creditors look for assets to
underpin the credit values. If you lease or rent everthing then you are in essence a bigger credit risk because you have no assets that your credit
can be based on. As she stated before, when you lease you cannot list the car as an asset because you do not own the vehicle...you are renting it.
Now an owner who owns the car, even if they are making payments to a bank is allowed to list the car as an asset. When the mumbers are run your assets
better out-weigh your debt...and this is where leases fall flat on their face...leases fall on the debt side of teh equation not the asset side.

She stated that her personal preference would be to own rather than lease because there are more advantages to owning the vehicle that play to a person's
worth and compartively none to leasing other than as a tax break incidental to a business.

So read it and weep 96SVT.....Mr. experience was right after all.....

Your telling me your CPA read this thread, and replied to you on New Years Eve? :bs: I've got $20 that says you just made all that up. First of all no CPA would say what you claim, I really don't feel like going back and just destroying that "statement" because a lot of it is nonsense and you still haven't addressed the main issue: Buying a brand new car is not good personal finance.

I would like to see the actual email (take a screenshot) or give me her email address and let me ask her please.

 

[NinetySixSVT]

The thing I find funny is your trying to argue with me that owning is better than leasing...of course it is. But buying a brand new car is not the way to go about it. You buy a 1-2 year old car with extremely low mileage and save thousands of dollars. Don't know how many times I have to say this...you seem to be the only one who's not getting it.

 

[ON D BIT]

:bash:

Your telling me your CPA read this thread, and replied to you on New Years Eve? :bs: I've got $20 that says you just made all that up. First of all no CPA would say what you claim, I really don't feel like going back and just destroying that "statement" because a lot of it is nonsense and you still haven't addressed the main issue: Buying a brand new car is not good personal finance.

I would like to see the actual email (take a screenshot) or give me her email address and let me ask her please.

first off, who really cares about his cpa and what she did or did not do today!!!!!!oke:


next the arguement has evolved so fast no one what they are debating anymore.:bash:

First and foremost...no car is considered to be an investment, it is instead considered to be a necessity and thus an expense no matter
whether you lease or own the vehicle. So there is no grounds for looking at it as to how much you lose right off the lot because that
is always going to be a given

your cpa summed up this whole thread in one statement, congrats. a car is not an investment. an automobile used for the sole purpose of transportation is an expense. thats it, thats why people purchase and lease cars.

the key here is any money used above and beyond a transportation expense is a poor financial decision. what can a 50k car do that a 3k car can not? they will both take you to work, the grocery store, and back home again. the big difference is the 3k car will save you about 20k in 2 first years of ownership.

and if you invest 10 grand every year it will not take you long to pile up loads of cash. the best way to make money is compound interest!:idea:

so who here saves/invests 10k+ every year?:beer:

 

[NinetySixSVT]

:bash:


first off, who really cares about his cpa and what she did or did not do today!!!!!!oke:


next the arguement has evolved so fast no one what they are debating anymore.:bash:



your cpa summed up this whole thread in one statement, congrats. a car is not an investment. an automobile used for the sole purpose of transportation is an expense. thats it, thats why people purchase and lease cars.

the key here is any money used above and beyond a transportation expense is a poor financial decision. what can a 50k car do that a 3k car can not? they will both take you to work, the grocery store, and back home again. the big difference is the 3k car will save you about 20k in 2 first years of ownership.

and if you invest 10 grand every year it will not take you long to pile up loads of cash. the best way to make money is compound interest!:idea:

so who here saves/invests 10k+ every year?:beer:

:bash: The only thing he has said right is the term investment is being attacked. Which is why I have switched my statement to "personal finance". It is not good personal finance to buy a brand new car. I'll say it again. It is not good personal finance to buy a brand new car.

One more time, for the record:

IT IS NOT GOOD PERSONAL FINANCE TO BUY A BRAND NEW CAR

I consider anything you do with your money an investment, because your opportunity cost is you could be "investing" that money elsewhere. If you don't consider a car an investment, then you don't consider a house an investment either.

Regardless, my entire point still stands: Buy a brand new car is not good personal finance. It is a waste of money.

 

[Todd03Blown]

Regardless, my entire point still stands: Buy a brand new car is not good personal finance. It is a waste of money.

so some of the people that bought some enzo's or Mclaren F1's brand new and sold them for alot more then they paid that is a waste of money:fart:

 

[NinetySixSVT]

so some of the people that bought some enzo's or Mclaren F1's brand new and sold them for alot more then they paid that is a waste of money:fart:

SIGHHH...I clearly said this does not apply to supercars like ferrari's and the such earlier in the thread. I also said it doesn't apply if your net worth is way over a million dollars, and if you buying of those cars...your net worth most certainly is over a million dollars.

I know for damn sure if I was worth $100 million I wouldn't buy a used car, or lease a new car. :bash:

 

[ON D BIT]

Regardless, my entire point still stands: Buy a brand new car is not good personal finance. It is a waste of money.

now theres your problem! you two have different definitions of investments.

most people like i think as an investment something that will bring in more money in tomorrow's world. and as both of you agree a car will not do that. so many people feel a car is not an investment.

he is right. you are correct as well. but both of you have gone over the edge to prove nothing!

 

[ON D BIT]

so some of the people that bought some enzo's or Mclaren F1's brand new and sold them for alot more then they paid that is a waste of money:fart:

there are so many variables to this question i dont want to start. i will just say this, those who purchase those types of cars will lose some money and make some money. the big deal is that those that lose money on these cars is insignificant to the money they make everyday.:rockon:

 

[NinetySixSVT]

now theres your problem! you two have different definitions of investments.

most people like i think as an investment something that will bring in more money in tomorrow's world. and as both of you agree a car will not do that. so many people feel a car is not an investment.

he is right. you are correct as well. but both of you have gone over the edge to prove nothing!

but my statement stands lol, buying a new car is not good personal finance. Do you disagree?

 

[ON D BIT]

what dont you understand?

i say you lose money when you pay for a car you dont need.
he says you lose money when you buy or lease a new car. hence the words not an investment.
you say you lose money when you pay for a new car.


you two have been saying the same thing for hours! so why do you keep repeating what everyone agrees on?


***shut it down bruce, we are so far off topic its not funny. if they want to continue have them start an new thread in smackdown.***