General Motors (GM) cutting almost 15,000 jobs in North Aerica

[VRYALT3R3D]

I dont agree. They are shutting down factories. Not retooling them. I dont see that a sign of power. But a sign of trouble ahead.

What do you propose? To keep the plant alive making obsolete products and losing money for GM? GM is being forward looking here. The plant's future depends on future negotiations with the UAW. The Ohio plant has product that is currently unallocated beyond 2019. If GM wanted to close the plant, it would have announced that explicitly like it did with other plants.

And the Lordstown plant would not be real easy to convert over to hybrid or electric vehicle production it would take at least 3 years to switch it.

I do agree that if GM wants to get and keep public opinion on their side they should just make the new Blazer there and forget about Mexico. As all they would need is the jigs and reprogramming of all the robotic systems from the Cruz to the Blazer.

How did you come up with 3 years? Did you pull that number out of a hat? Electric vehicles tend to be on the same platform as ICE vehicles in order to amortize and save on sunk costs. For example, the Cruz and Volt were on the same GM Delta platform. It would not make sense to build the Blazer at Lordstown. The reason is two fold: Lordstown doesn't build any cars that utilize the C platform in which the Blazer is based on and that the Blazer is destined for export for Asian markets as well. Mexico is a lot cheaper/better to export vehicles out of than the USA. Furthermore, GM looked into building the Blazer in the US but the only other plant that builds cars on the C platform - Spring Hill - is currently at full capacity.

 

[Klay]

Let's compare 35mpgs (car) to 25mpgs (SUV).

The average person drives 13,474 miles a year. The average price for a gallon of gas is $2.542.

35mpgs: 13,474/35= 384.97 gallons of gas consumed. 385*2.542= $978.67 Spent
25mpgs: 13,474/25= 538.96 gallons of gas consumer. 539*2.542= $1,370.14 Spent.

Delta = $391.47
Delta per month = $32.62

$391.47 a year is not enough money for people to drive something they don't want to drive.

You won't get an arguement out of me that the difference in mileage won't result in a huge cost difference. Although, CUVs and SUVs typically cost more than car variants, so there is that cost difference to consider. However, that is not the arguement and is irrelevant.

Going from 35 to 25 mpg is a massive difference in fuel efficiency. The fact remains that just 10 years ago, GM was focused on creating fuel efficient vehicles. Now they are cutting several of them to go with more profitable and less fuel efficient vehicles.

It is poor management and planning. They shouldn't be making such drastic changes in such a relatively short period of time. I'm sure whatever data on cars declining and trucks/SUVs they have was present back then too. The decline of sedans has been going on for years and years. It isnt news. GM and Ford are overreacting and it has to do with short sighted management.

 

[13COBRA]

You won't get an arguement out of me that the difference in mileage won't result in a huge cost difference. Although, CUVs and SUVs typically cost more than car variants, so there is that cost difference to consider. However, that is not the arguement and is irrelevant.

Going from 35 to 25 mpg is a massive difference in fuel efficiency. The fact remains that just 10 years ago, GM was focused on creating fuel efficient vehicles. Now they are cutting several of them to go with more profitable and less fuel efficient vehicles.

It is poor management and planning. They shouldn't be making such drastic changes in such a relatively short period of time. I'm sure whatever data on cars declining and trucks/SUVs they have was present back then too. The decline of sedans has been going on for years and years. It isnt news. GM and Ford are overreacting and it has to do with short sighted management.

We can agree to disagree.

When the 2018 EcoSport starting hitting the lots, all of my Focus' and Fiestas turned in to statues on my lot. They're priced $3-4k more than a Fiesta/Focus for the same thing...but people purchasing them are payment buyers, so we're talking $55-75 a month difference, and people are paying that all day.

 

[BlksvtCobra01]

And the Lordstown plant would not be real easy to convert over to hybrid or electric vehicle production it would take at least 3 years to switch it.

I do agree that if GM wants to get and keep public opinion on their side they should just make the new Blazer there and forget about Mexico. As all they would need is the jigs and reprogramming of all the robotic systems from the Cruz to the Blazer.

Totally agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[earico]

Should have let the big 3 fall into bankruptcy 10 years ago and in the process wiped out the auto unions. Yes I know Ford squeaked thru without a bailout. Guarantee you that they would be much more competitive today in the compact, midsize and full size markets if that had happened.

 

[me32]

What do you propose? To keep the plant alive making obsolete products and losing money for GM? GM is being forward looking here. The plant's future depends on future negotiations with the UAW. The Ohio plant has product that is currently unallocated beyond 2019. If GM wanted to close the plant, it would have announced that explicitly like it did with other plants.




How did you come up with 3 years? Did you pull that number out of a hat? Electric vehicles tend to be on the same platform as ICE vehicles in order to amortize and save on sunk costs. For example, the Cruz and Volt were on the same GM Delta platform. It would not make sense to build the Blazer at Lordstown. The reason is two fold: Lordstown doesn't build any cars that utilize the C platform in which the Blazer is based on and that the Blazer is destined for export for Asian markets as well. Mexico is a lot cheaper/better to export vehicles out of than the USA. Furthermore, GM looked into building the Blazer in the US but the only other plant that builds cars on the C platform - Spring Hill - is currently at full capacity.

Once again they are closing the factories not retooling them for new profit making vehicles. That is a sign of trouble ahead. When your not moving forward yout not succeeding.

 

[HISSMAN]

Once again they are closing the factories not retooling them for new profit making vehicles. That is a sign of trouble ahead. When your not moving forward yout not succeeding.

The trouble we see now is from the trouble behind, not ahead. This was put into motion about 20 years ago with bad decisions that should have put GM into full bankruptcy 10 years ago. All they did with the bailout was kick the can down the road another 10 years. Not the hen has come home to roost.

 

[13COBRA]

Once again they are closing the factories not retooling them for new profit making vehicles. That is a sign of trouble ahead. When your not moving forward yout not succeeding.

Not necessarily.

With all the tax implications and TIF money, oftentimes companies come out ahead building new plants instead of retooling old ones.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

Not necessarily.

With all the tax implications and TIF money, oftentimes companies come out ahead building new plants instead of retooling old ones.

might be BS but I had heard in the past part of GMs union agreements involved the factories themselves, if they demolished the factory the contract for that facility was then void. Kill the factory and build a new one, get to negotiate a new contract.

 

[me32]

Not necessarily.

With all the tax implications and TIF money, oftentimes companies come out ahead building new plants instead of retooling old ones.

Like the plant in Mexico?

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Once again they are closing the factories not retooling them for new profit making vehicles. That is a sign of trouble ahead. When your not moving forward yout not succeeding.

Again, GM has not explicitly announced they are shutting down the plant. Only the Oshawa, ON plant is being closed 100%. The Lordstown plant currently has no product allocated beyond 2019. Under an agreement that the UAW and GM has, any closure of a plant must be negotiated with the UAW. The Spring Hill assembly plant was unallocated as well years ago and today they are at maximum capacity. If these plants want to remain open, the ball is in the UAW's court.

 

[13COBRA]

might be BS but I had heard in the past part of GMs union agreements involved the factories themselves, if they demolished the factory the contract for that facility was then void. Kill the factory and build a new one, get to negotiate a new contract.

I'm not sure if that's true or not.

 

[me32]

Again, GM has not explicitly announced they are shutting down the plant. Only the Oshawa, ON plant is being closed 100%. The Lordstown plant currently has no product allocated beyond 2019. Under an agreement that the UAW and GM has, any closure of a plant must be negotiated with the UAW. The Spring Hill assembly plant was unallocated as well years ago and today they are at maximum capacity. If these plants want to remain open, the ball is in the UAW's court.

Is it really in the UAW court?

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

I'm not sure if that's true or not.

well, I guess I should say it sounded like it was originally put in there more in the case a facility was destroyed by some sort of disaster but didn't specifically say it that way so they used it to their advantage

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Is it really in the UAW court?

I meant to say the closure didn't happen yet. The UAW can still negotiate to keep the plant open. GM wants lower paid workers and wants to transition away from the super high priced labor and legacy costs they face.

 

[13COBRA]

UAW workers that are nearing retirement, make very strong money for the work they perform.

Being 15 minutes away from the F-150 Kansas City Plant, I see it every day. A lot of the younger guys are making $45-55k a year....while the guys that have been there since the 'good' contracts are able to knock down six figures easily.

Hell, I had one guy last month that works on the line and has for 24 years, that made $129k last year.

 

[earico]

Hell, I had one guy last month that works on the line and has for 24 years, that made $129k last year.

+ cush benefits and pension. I think that's retarded to compensate a factory operator that much.

 

[13COBRA]

+ cush benefits and pension. I think that's retarded to compensate a factory operator that much.

100% agree. It's ridiculous.

 

[GTSpartan]

I dont agree. They are shutting down factories. Not retooling them. I dont see that a sign of power. But a sign of trouble ahead.

Lol wut?


No.

Why not? Just because trouble may be ahead, doesn't mean they are weak.

Financials are looking good. U.S. operations are strong. They are a leader in China, and no longer have to deal with the perpetually crappy, money sucking European and South American markets. While still a ways out, they are one of the leaders in AV's. Make a bold move on your own terms, while things are still good and you have options. Don't wait until it's too late.

One of primary reasons they bit the dust back in '08 was they didn't have the foresight to recognize times were changing, and lacked the stomach to do anything about it.The collapse hit, credit markets dried up, and they were dead meat.

Those who do not learn from history.......

 

[RedVenom48]

100% agree. It's ridiculous.

Its little wonder the Union fights literally like their lives depend on it. They get a nice percentage cut from each on of those big ass salaries for Union dues.