Mustang Line-up

[LargeOrangeFont]

thats my point. i never once said it did! i said four seats. 2+2 sports coupe like the 997. small and light great handling sports coupe for $70k.

i dont want another luxo sedan ala m5 e55!:bash:

So then buy a z06 and be done with it.

 

[CobraRed01]

So then buy a z06 and be done with it.

My thoughts exactly. Why can GM build the C6 Z06 and Dodge do the Viper for between $70K and $80K...and Ford can't produce a GR1-type coupe for about the same coin?

 

[JETSOLVER]

My thoughts exactly. Why can GM build the C6 Z06 and Dodge do the Viper for between $70K and $80K...and Ford can't produce a GR1-type coupe for about the same coin?

:idea: because there is a limited market for American cars in this price range? And Ford already has Jag shooting at that market? Just look at the resistance to a 60+k Mustang. The Vette's economy's of scale are impossible to touch. And I'll bet the Viper doesn't sell to anybody who isn't replacing an existing one and a good percentage of the engineering is carry on, not new after a decade of low but steady sales.

If Shelby can milk the market enough, they might try again with a GR-1 or Daisy, but I'll wager they have learned a lesson from the last failed attempt. Especially as they would then have to face some serious regulatory obstacles that a small operation could not deal with. that's in part why the blown GT-S is not available out the showroom door.

The GT thing combined with the GT500 selling for the numbers it has, and Ford not seeing the resulting $ has made Ford very cautious again. They are going to do the Ford thing and have to learn every lesson over again in the next two or three model years. Painful, but typical.

How may of us would now opt for the proposed but canned, slightly more expensive SVT(with IRS) version of the GT500? Another missed window.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

:idea: because there is a limited market for American cars in this price range? And Ford already has Jag shooting at that market? Just look at the resistance to a 60+k Mustang. The Vette's economy's of scale are impossible to touch. And I'll bet the Viper doesn't sell to anybody who isn't replacing an existing one and a good percentage of the engineering is carry on, not new after a decade of low but steady sales.

Oh yes! Lets all run out to but a $60K car based on a $20K car platform. A $60K mustang is not a valid solution. The reason the current Corvette is successful in the Z06 platform is because it was designed as a sports car, and that is all it is. It is not and econobox with beefed up running gear like the Cobra, Shelby, etc. Its the difference between a muscle car and a sports car. Niether Jag or Aston make a "sports" car. I'm not saying Ford should jump in and make one, and considering their current financial troubles I doubt that they will.

There is not a limited market for American cars in the $60K range. It is that americans make crappy cars in that price range, save for a couple. People spend $60K + on Mercedes, and BMWs, partly for the name, but the fit and finish definately LOOKS better. Most cars of that price range are leased anyway, so they are gone before the real problems with quality set in.

 

[CobraRed01]

JETSOLVER...good points. Thanks for the response. Considering the loyal base of Vette and Viper owners, Ford would have to come up with something that might pull a few away from each market and develop a base of it's own following from scratch. Something tells me though a pure Ford offering would be wildly successful, if done right, as this segment of the market (America-made sports cars) has been stagnent for quite awhile.

 

[chuckstang]

Jetsolver nailed it...Ford has Jag and Aston for the 60k and beyond

 

[SteveEvo8]

Oh yes! Lets all run out to but a $60K car based on a $20K car platform. A $60K mustang is not a valid solution. The reason the current Corvette is successful in the Z06 platform is because it was designed as a sports car, and that is all it is. It is not and econobox with beefed up running gear like the Cobra, Shelby, etc. Its the difference between a muscle car and a sports car.

There is not a limited market for American cars in the $60K range. It is that americans make crappy cars in that price range, save for a couple. People spend $60K + on Mercedes, and BMWs, partly for the name, but the fit and finish is definately LOOKS better. Most cars of that price range are leased anyway, so they are gone before the real problems with quality set in.

Well put! However the gt500 is actually a 45k car, but even with that said there are other options out there that are better cars for the money. I just think Ford has had a pretty good try spell when it comes to designing good looking cars, when compared to other American car manufacturers. Also doesn't the new mustang concept look a lot like the new Camaro:shrug: ? I think Ford needs to redo more than the mustang line up.

 

[ON D BIT]

Oh yes! Lets all run out to but a $60K car based on a $20K car platform. A $60K mustang is not a valid solution. The reason the current Corvette is successful in the Z06 platform is because it was designed as a sports car, and that is all it is. It is not and econobox with beefed up running gear like the Cobra, Shelby, etc. Its the difference between a muscle car and a sports car. Niether Jag or Aston make a "sports" car. I'm not saying Ford should jump in and make one, and considering their current financial troubles I doubt that they will.

There is not a limited market for American cars in the $60K range. It is that americans make crappy cars in that price range, save for a couple. People spend $60K + on Mercedes, and BMWs, partly for the name, but the fit and finish definately LOOKS better. Most cars of that price range are leased anyway, so they are gone before the real problems with quality set in.

your a right on in your first paragragh. :rockon:

i disagree with your second statement though. american manufacturers can make great cars in the high rent district. cadillac is back, and aston has had a revitalization in the last few years.

 

[ON D BIT]

So then buy a z06 and be done with it.

is that a 2+2 sportscar?

 

[CobraRed01]

Jag and Aston are all well and good...but they're not raucous American sports cars like the Vette and Viper. I'd say totally different animals wouldn't you? The lack of a GR1 or Daisy in response to the Vette and Viper is a surprising gap in Ford's lineup all these years...considering how successful the original Shelby's were performance-wise. Back to the original premise...while a $70K to $80K Mustang won't sell...a new Ford super coupe/roadster will. I think the Mustang line is headed toward the Giugiaro concept....that's it. If you want a luxury high-performance 2+2 should there be something in the Ford lineup like the Cadillac CTS-V (4-dr)... or maybe a Ford/Jaguar answer to the BMW 6-series (2-dr)? Aston's are quite pricey compared to this crowd... not sure they count in the $70K to $80K range.

 

[JETSOLVER]

Oh yes! Lets all run out to buy a $60K car based on a $20K car platform. A $60K mustang is not a valid solution.

There is not a limited market for American cars in the $60K range. It is that americans make crappy cars in that price range, save for a couple.

You sort of nailed the reasons right there.

I would argue that the Aston AM series Vantage is a Porsche fighter of the first order. That is its intention and price. Shame they couldn't actually use that engineering for us over here, supporting the mother ship through thick and very thin. Thats how they sold the A-M buy to the suck, er shareholders.

As to using the mustang,you are right. The question then becomes who many units do you have to sell at the theorized price to recover the 2-300 million or so it would take to proto, test, build and market the car we all want. The last numbers I saw suggest that cost recovery averages loosely $1500 per American car sold to a dealer. Lets pie in the sky a limited edition performance car at say 4k. Thats on a bespoke chassis mind you.

Now, if Ford could divy up that amongst a sports car, a Mercury showroom leader, and a Lincoln type of XLR clone, suddenly a three year run starts to make sense. Add in the fact that for a change an American platform might be competitive with the world and go the other way(a European Ghia style performance car?, a Volvo 1800 history rape, er, historical cue, a proper Mazda sports car to follow up the RX-8) all sorts of possibilities.

So yes we are dreaming. But engineering has saved Ford in the past, and the quickest way to learn a lesson is racing, or better yet, a high-performance niche product made on the same assembly line as your volume product. The problem is that every body else has also figured that out. A shame, as Ford got there in 93(for the second time) and seems to have cast that lesson aside as well.

Not to argue with things I generally agree with L.O.F., but can you see anyway to make a Ford appeal enough to the target group you have in mind to make a business case to Ford? I think we would all love to help, judging by the reaction.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Also doesn't the new mustang concept look a lot like the new Camaro:shrug:

unfortunately it does :xpl: