Mustang Line-up

[SlowSVT]

This is starting to get old. I make a statement based on what you are asking for and you compleatly ignor what I said. Go back and CAREFULLY read what I wrote and tell me if there is any truth to what is stated. You are basically asking for a light weight GT500 and are using a Corvette for the basis of your prosposed platform. There is 200 to 300 lb. difference in the weight of the ZO6 and GT500 engine alone. Add the acommodations for two more passengers will add another 200 lbs.

How many ways do I need to explaine that? Lets approach this from a different perspective. Rather then making general statements using cars that are not even remotly similar to the GT500, explain in rought detail how Ford can strip 600 lbs. out of the GT500 sell it for $80k and still make a profit. Give an estimate on how much weight will be lost and how it will be done.

 

[19COBRA93]

We are not even talking about the GT500. We're talking about a completely different car that Ford should build based off an entirely different chassis than the GT500 that we think Ford can build and market for $80k.

Maybe you should read our posts better.

 

[GTSpartan]

For any real, substantial weight savings without gutting a car would be to move away from the unibody structure that the mustang uses into a more advanced, lighter space frame. Unibodies are naturally heavy, no real way around it.

Since Ford doesn't have anything like that in their lineup, the tooling alone would cost BIG $$$$ and there goes your $80k price tag.

I don't think you'll ever see ford directly compete with the corvette. The start-up cost alone to get in the game makes it prohibitive.

 

[ON D BIT]

For any real, substantial weight savings without gutting a car would be to move away from the unibody structure that the mustang uses into a more advanced, lighter space frame. Unibodies are naturally heavy, no real way around it.

Since Ford doesn't have anything like that in their lineup, the tooling alone would cost BIG $$$$ and there goes your $80k price tag.

I don't think you'll ever see ford directly compete with the corvette. The start-up cost alone to get in the game makes it prohibitive.

how bout a modified amv8 chasis? or the daisy chasis?

 

[ON D BIT]

You are basically asking for a light weight GT500...

no! i have already said numerous times you can not build the car we want with a mustang chasis. i am not looking for a modified or lightweight gt500.

ford can build a new body on frame sports car coupe with a 2 by 2 interior. you have some good points though, the gt500 drivetrain weights a ton. hell dohc engines of any size and alloy are big and heavy. so maybe they move in a different direction? the daisy engine? the new 6.2 boss engine? that new engine in a lightweight and cheap(less interior gadgets and glitz) version of the amv8 chasis would rock!:rockon: :beer:

 

[SlowSVT]

You originally were asking for a Blown 5.4 DOHC engine and IRS so that is what I was basing my assessment on. Ford is in no financial position to develope a completely new platform that will appeal to such a limited number of car buyers. They would never re-coup their investment which would only put them further in the red. Fortunately for both of us they realize this and will never build it. It would be nice if they did, but............

............Tain't happening

Remember, Ford lost money on every Terminator they sold and that was based on an existing platform. I would not be surprised if they are loosing their shirt on the GT500 as well.

 

[GTSpartan]

how bout a modified amv8 chasis? or the daisy chasis?

Built in England, which means they would have to build the car over there, or import the chassis here. With todays exhange rates, building it overseas makes the car very expensive, and importing the chassis to be built here is also expensive form both an importing and tooling standpoint.

Also, do they even have the capacity to build enough units? For AM, I would assume 5k units would be more than they could handle.

Remember, we are talking about keeing the cost reasonable.

 

[ON D BIT]

You originally were asking for a Blown 5.4 DOHC engine and IRS so that is what I was basing my assessment on. Ford is in no financial position to develope a completely new platform that will appeal to such a limited number of car buyers. ...It would be nice if they did, but............

............Tain't happening

Remember, we are talking about keeing the cost reasonable.

my statements never stated anything to the fact of cost. i am just stating that ford along with every other major manufacturer has the ability to build such a car. from the response(and the original concept of this thread) a ford manufacturered 2+2 sports car the size and weight and price of the porsche 911 would be sweet. and i would think ford would sell a ton of them!:beer:

 

[GTSpartan]

Remember the last Thunderbird? It was built on an existing chassis and was still way overpriced and performed even worse.

To build a true competitor for the vette would cost way too much. They gave up in the past with the original T'bird and definatley don't want to tangle with the vette now.

Are they willing to invest into a whole new plant, tooling, and tons of R&D $$$ to sell ~30k a year. I bet you Ford lost their a$$ on the whole GT program, given all the problems they had.

Let Chevy stick to the vette and Ford to the stang. Neither is in any real position to be diverting precious resources into a niche car anyway.

 

[SlowSVT]

i would think ford would sell a ton of them!:beer:

Remember, Ford lost money on every Terminator they sold and that was based on an existing platform. I would not be surprised if they are loosing their shirt on the GT500 as well.

To give you an example. I was one of the principles ina start-up company making ATM network equipment (Operations/Electromechanical Engineering manger). The founder turned out to be a real moron and wanted to make a big splash in the industry (ie: stroke his ego) and announced the sales price without consulting engineer on how much it cost to manufacture. Essentually we were wrapping dollars around every unit we sold. I was cringing with every unit we shipped out the door:cuss: which is compleatly backwards to how the process should work. Needless to say his stupidity buried the company. We would have lasted longer if we didn't sell anything.

"selling a ton of them" is meaningless if you loose money on every unit

Catch my drift?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Jesus, this thread is painful. Cars are getting heavier, Get over it. If you want a light, good handling car for a reasonable amount, You don't go to your Ford dealer. Ford will not be making any car like that. If they did they would not sell. It would be a POS $60+K car on a modified $20K car chassis. No thanks.

You want a 60-80K Ford, buy a Jag S Type R. That is your option.

Name one 4 seater sports car over $60k that weighs 3300#. They dont exist.

 

[Randy Fontenot]

Ford should build the Shelby AC-Cobra,that was view not long ago. Of course it would be around $80,000.00,or more at MSRP. That unit would compete with the Z06-vete./and the Viper-V10-So it's in Fords ball park if they want to build an alluminun chassie,with a 5.4-aluminum-block,with a Super-charger. Then you will be in the area of the Z06/Viper. I know you realize that the market value at time of sale will be redicliously over MSRP. So as consummers we're in a deliema,with the Ford Dealers again taking advantage of consummers. Just my thoughts,but it could be built if Ford and Mr. Carol Shelby can come to an agreement/contract on this unit the Future AC-Cobra-two seater.Ford Bring it back for all Baby Bummers-and future Muscle car buyers;We're CAR-Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[03snakerush]

Ford should build the Shelby AC-Cobra,that was view not long ago. Of course it would be around $80,000.00,or more at MSRP. That unit would compete with the Z06-vete./and the Viper-V10-So it's in Fords ball park if they want to build an alluminun chassie,with a 5.4-aluminum-block,with a Super-charger. Then you will be in the area of the Z06/Viper. I know you realize that the market value at time of sale will be redicliously over MSRP. So as consummers we're in a deliema,with the Ford Dealers again taking advantage of consummers. Just my thoughts,but it could be built if Ford and Mr. Carol Shelby can come to an agreement/contract on this unit the Future AC-Cobra-two seater.Ford Bring it back for all Baby Bummers-and future Muscle car buyers;We're CAR-Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edit: nevermind...

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

Ford already made that car. It's called a GT40 sans the rear seat and front mounted engine.

Unfortunately Ford couldn't achive your weight goal even in a 2 seat composite sports car and it cost twice as much pre-gouging. Maybe next year.

since the GT had a mid-mount engine and radiators at the front of the car they had to increase the amount of fluids that the car had to carried compared to if it were a front mount engine. i would bet you could shave a 100lbs of weight just from mounting the engine in the front since your getting rid of the extra fluids. they could also use some fiberglas or carbonfiber on the body as well(the GT is all aluminum if im not mistaken). hell, they could just make the entire body out of fiberglass like the vette. they could also go to a composite underbody paneling instead of aluminum.

but GTSparten stated the real problem, start up costs. the vette has been around since the 50s, the money to go towards it is already taken into account each year.

 

[SlowSVT]

Ry

100 lbs. worth of water in the GT40 coolant lines

You realize that equates to 12 gallons. That's a lot considering the entire system holds only 8 gallons (for reference the front engine GT500 hold 5 gallons).

Must be the new math they use on this site :rollseyes

 

[ON D BIT]

Jesus, this thread is painful. Cars are getting heavier, Get over it. If you want a light, good handling car for a reasonable amount, You don't go to your Ford dealer. Ford will not be making any car like that. If they did they would not sell. It would be a POS $60+K car on a modified $20K car chassis. No thanks.

You want a 60-80K Ford, buy a Jag S Type R. That is your option.

Name one 4 seater sports car over $60k that weighs 3300#. They dont exist.

the e46, and 997. the e90 will weight in at 3400#, and the amv8 runs in at 3450.

 

[ON D BIT]

"selling a ton of them" is meaningless if you loose money on every unit

Catch my drift?

your just one step ahead of me.
everything starts with a dream or an idea. then it evolves to is it a good idea(concept vehicles)? then we get to the part, can it be profitable? then a business plan(this states in specific terms cost, time, and revenue).

the only time i know where ford took the cost be damned aproach was when enzo changed his mind. they are certainly not in a position to do anything like that now. with this stated ford will not start a project without a profitable game plan. i understand that, but i will not stop dreaming! :rockon: :beer:

 

[SlowSVT]

Nothing wrong with that my friend.

To me, all these car companies are just giving us a platform to work with. You and I will do a much better job then they can building a performance car. Besides, It would be kinda boring walking into a dealer and just buy a hot rod. No fun in that. I can't wait to burn down my first GT500 :fart: .........just as long as he's not packing more heat then me :burn:

Be well

 

[Iman01]

Well, it was cool seeing what you all had to say. I do think that the 80k car could be a mustang. I know that On-D-Bit doesn't think that makes sense but people have paid that for Mustangs worth only 40k. So apperantly there are some people that would pay that much. I feel that if Ford put the effort into making a Mustang, yes a Mustang, to fill the 80k price point people would buy that too. Who cares that it weighs more than a Z06, so does a Lamborghini. People buy those because they are styled well and the have a famous name. The same is true of the Mustang, if a well built, styled version is made to fill the 80k price tag I honestly think Ford would sell some. A "flagship" Mustang would be cool. No rattles, perfect paint, just a fantastic version of the Mustang.

One of the big things that has made Mustang successful is that Ford can sell a regular high volume v-6 and they can sell upgraded versions of a similar looking car to the performance crowd. I do feel a high dollar version of the Mustang could be marketed and sold. People paying too much for a 40k car I think has proven that point. They would pay the right price for an 80k car.

 

[stvdman]

An MSRP $80K limited production sports car from Ford will be going out the door for $120K after dealer mark-up. Same boat different car :shrug:

The problem is people with deep pocket want the GT500 NOW and are unwilling to wait. That's is what is driving the cost. In 6 months they will be selling at MSRP. In one year they will be offering incentives. In 18 months they will be sitting on the lots waiting to get sold once the demand is satified.

Hmmm something in-between... Looks like someones is already trying..PANOZ

4.6 liter S/C 420HP V-8 engined (Terminator motor):

OR 4.6 liter N/A V-8 305 HP (MACH I motor?)