the jaguar AJV8 is a 100% jaguar design, both the previous gen and the current gen. jaguar, land rover, and aston martin operated nearly autonomously, with minimal assistance other than monetary from ford.
New 5.0 DOHC GT to have 425hp?
- Thread starter A4BLK98SS
- Start date
Ok, fine. I would bet money there was information sharing, but oh well.
Regardless, tell me what is so different about Ford's 5.0L and Jaguars 5.0L? Thats what I want to know.
How many GTs are sold compared to the Jag? Ford is certain the GT will sell like hot pancakes on an early morning. You take a loss at the beginning but make a profit in the long run. At least that's what I think. Also the GT will not need as much torque if it is lighter and has better gearing. Although it would be nice
I believe the bore centers are different in each, which would make them completely different engines.
The AJ line has a different architecture than the modular family of engines.
Last edited:
What I can see ford doing is a another mid range model like the shelby gt was between a reg gt mustang and the shelbygt500
I can see this:
base v6= for $24-$30k with 3.7 v6 300hp
reg base GT =$28-$37k with 5.0 v8 400hp
mach1/boss/shelby gt=$38-$42k with 5.0 v8 425hp+
( = GT+ with mach/boss/or shelby apperance package, intake,exaust etc.)
shelby gt500=$44,000-$52k 5.4 aluminum block supercharged 540+-600hp
v6=300hp
v8/GT=400hp
special model= 415-450hp
(mach1,boss,shelby gt)
shelby cobra= 540-600hp
THAT WOULD BE A PERFECT SETUP!!
I can see this:
base v6= for $24-$30k with 3.7 v6 300hp
reg base GT =$28-$37k with 5.0 v8 400hp
mach1/boss/shelby gt=$38-$42k with 5.0 v8 425hp+
( = GT+ with mach/boss/or shelby apperance package, intake,exaust etc.)
shelby gt500=$44,000-$52k 5.4 aluminum block supercharged 540+-600hp
v6=300hp
v8/GT=400hp
special model= 415-450hp
(mach1,boss,shelby gt)
shelby cobra= 540-600hp
THAT WOULD BE A PERFECT SETUP!!
Last edited:
no doubt about info sharing, the PAG companies more than likely used some of fords R&D resources too.
the reason i believe the bimmer/lexus V8s make for a better comparison than the AJV8 is because the latter features direct injection. DI will, without a doubt, yield different results from bolt ons than PI, and, as of right now, we have no clue what these differences may be. the only engine 100% comparable to a coyote 5.0l is another coyote 5.0l, but the BMW and lexus V8s are about the closest mass production engines out there right now(port injection, similar boreXstroke, DOHC naturally aspirated).
either way, the heads will be the real difference between these engines. the better an engine can breathe, the more power it can make, and the most important piece of the respiration puzzle is the heads.
sounds good to me!!!
Last edited:
The new Coyote motor is still considered a Modular motor.(Just one with over a 3.6" bore. Its the first factory Modular motor with a bore size other than 3.552". The Ford Racing Cammer, and Boss Modular blocks have 3.700" bores FYI.) The Jag motor isn't. I dout you can swap heads, and cranks, and intake manifolds, etc between the two motors.
Ok, so it sounds like the bore centers may be different. I would not expect the difference to be significant or to significantly effect power output. Do you guys agree?
Do we have any idea on what the AJV8 heads flow? I don't care if they bolt-on to the Coyote or not, but their flow numbers would tell us a lot. What about the cam specs for the AJV8?
I'm curious if these Jag heads really are so bad that everyone is CONVINCED the Coyote will have better heads. Or are you all just "guessing"!?!
Do we have any idea on what the AJV8 heads flow? I don't care if they bolt-on to the Coyote or not, but their flow numbers would tell us a lot. What about the cam specs for the AJV8?
I'm curious if these Jag heads really are so bad that everyone is CONVINCED the Coyote will have better heads. Or are you all just "guessing"!?!
Last edited:
Ok, so the AJV8 is a 90 degree V engine. Can't seam to find the bore spacing.
The current modulars are also 90 degree V engines I believe with 100mm bore spaing. This bore spacing should be able to be increased on the Coyote as I understand it was kept small so the modular V8's could be used in FWD cars. With ecoboost, that should no longer be necessary.
The current modulars are also 90 degree V engines I believe with 100mm bore spaing. This bore spacing should be able to be increased on the Coyote as I understand it was kept small so the modular V8's could be used in FWD cars. With ecoboost, that should no longer be necessary.
Isn't that what everyone is doing? Where are detailed specs of the Coyote motor listed? The Jaguar motor is a modular 5.0L, but to say the Coyote motor will make the same power would be a guess as well. ;-)
Changing the bore spacing would make it a completely different line of engines.
Which is why they came out with the Boss/Hurricane line of engines. Which will be in the Raptor and the Super Duty. It has roughly 1/2" larger bore spacing allowing for larger bores.
They increase the size of the bores in modular motors by using thinner sleeves.
True, but if it is going to have a similar bore to the AJV8 (which most think it will), than the bore spacing will likely be similar (insignifcantly different anyways).
Therefore, it will again have more similarities to the Jag engine.
SBo3, I'm not saying the Coyote will make the same power as the Jag. I am saying the Jag is the closest thing we have to the Coyote for comparison and discussion.
By "leaked" information, "best guesses", and logical conclusions, the bore and bore/stroke ratio should be nearly identical between the two. I believe they will both be 90degree V8's and I don't see why there would be any significant difference in bore spacing or how that would significantly effect power output.
Does anyone have any head flow numbers for the AJV8?
again, this is not true. the fact that this engine features direct injection throws everything out the window, since direct injection cools the combustion chamber which will skew the results when compared to a port injection engine.
the BMW S62 is more comparable with the coyote, featuring a bore and stroke within ~2-3mm, variable cam/valve timing(intake and exhaust), DOHC arrangement, 5.0l displacement(obviously), bore spacing within 2mm(100mm for the modular family, 98mm for the S62), and port fuel injection.
Last edited:
the jaguar AJV8 is NOT related to the modular family in any way, shape, or form.
With Ford offering a 300hp V6, there's no way they'll allow a GT to have only around 315. I think you're right...a 400hp GT is in the works, and you'll be able to buy one for less than $30k considering that you can option down a current GT now for $28k sticker price (a frackin' bargain).
No better bang for the buck, especially considering how much lighter and how much more balanced it is over the Camaro and Challenger. Exciting times!
Agreed... I might just hold off on buying a new DD until the 2011 V6 (gulp :dw
comes out...In that case, neither is the BMW S62.
The bore spacing on the new Ford 5.0L should be greater than 100mm, not less, like the S62. Again, I don't think it will make much difference though.
The S62 bore/stroke is 94/89mm for a ratio of 1.06. In otherwords, it is oversquare compared to the Ford modular (1.00) and AJV8 (0.99).
On the S62 The entire assembly of plenum and runners is attached to the throttle housings via a rubber/metal flange (one per bank) that acoustically and thermally decouples the plenum from the engine itself thereby keeping the air charge cooler before it passes into the cylinders.
The S62 also does not have a traditional throttle body, but eight individual throttle butterflies. The heads also have very good cooling with cross-flow and cooling passeges on the intake side.
This statement has cam specs:
Other significant features of the cylinder heads include hollow camshafts of nodular cast iron for reduced inertia and long life. The S62's 35 mm intake and 30.5 mm exhaust valves are shared with the M62 engine, but valve timing is specific to this engine. The intake cam profiles yield 10.32 mm (0.406 in) valve lift and 252 degrees total duration and the exhaust cam profiles yield 10.2 mm (0.402 in) lift and 248 degrees duration, with Double VANOS shifting their timing to vary overlap. As in other current BMW V8 and 6-cylinder engines, the valves are actuated by no-maintenance bucket-type hydraulic lifters.
I wonder how this compares to the cam specs in the DOHC 4.6L and 5.4L as well as the AJV8?
************
The S62 made 395hp and 370tq and of course was not SAE certified. If that is a better comparison as you argue, that still isn't making me confident in these 400+hp hopes from the Ford 5.0L. BMW's technology is WAY ahead of most companies, so I could perhaps see a $30k 2011 Mustang 5.0L duplicating BMW's numbers from the late 90's. Then again, the M5 the S62 was in had "premium fuel required" or timing would be retared and power would suffer.
Everyone is saying 400+hp for the 5.0L in the Mustang GT on REGULAR octane. I'm not buying it.
None of the existing engines we have for comparison support this and the closest things we do have indicate less power on premium fuel (or direct injection) in more expensive cars.
Last edited:
Sure it skews the results, in favor of the Jag. The Jag engine would only make less power with port injection. Direct injection is typically good for about a 10% increase in horsepower and torque.
i hope your right. but if theres one thing i've learned from ford, it's waiting until it's on the showroom floor before getting my hopes up.
my take on it is this- without DI, i see the new GT being around 385hp/tq. and here's why:
1. it leaves enough room between the GT and Shelby to have some type of special edition with more than just an intake and exhaust.
2. i just have a hard time believing that ford will make that kind of hp jump with the GT.
3. a rating in the area of 385 would shine a better light on their ecoboost line of engines. since the marketing for those is based on v6 economy with v8 performance, keeping the power levels within an arms length gives the ecoboost more credibility, while also giving the mustang and it's new v8 the respect of still having more power than a v6 powered taurus.
4. hp levels can only get so high, and ford KNOWS it doesn't need the mustang to be the hp king to outsell its rivals
i hope i'm wrong, but thats just my take
This is true, its a good bad thing, bad because it pisses me off ford always says shit then when the car comes out its either to small of engine underpowered or to heavy, but with all the 200-300hp factory cars now, even toyota camrys honda accords and acuras and nissan v6's are 200- 300+hp for 20-40k,I dont see why ford cant do a $28-$37k 400hp gt, esp with 5.0 liters,esp since there jumping the base v6 95-100more then there gonna be making 305hp out of a 3.7 v6, why cant ford do 400hp out of a 5.0 v8? I hope you are wrong, even then 385-400 hp for stock still has room for a model between the shelby and gt, I mean a 300hp base v6,400hp 5.0 gt, and a 415-450hp mid range model then the 540+hp shelby is perfect:banana:
I mean even 2.0-3.0 n/a 4 cylinders and v6's now are are 170hp-300hp from the factory, its bout time gets away from the shity 200-300hp underpowered gt 4.6 and 5.0 engine, and make a strong 400hp n/a gt from the factory even 350+ hp for the gt will be fine, still 50 more hp then the new v6, and still less to not make me real mad that a new gt will make more power then me modded lol but I can see ford dong 385hp, being the cobra r was 385hp stock, ford has done it before, but that sure will piss of alot of guys that a new gt will make same or more power then, the 1995 cobra r 5.8 liter, the s351 n/a saleen with a 5.8 liter, and same or more power then the 2000 cobra r and 2003-2004 cobra.
Last edited:
Users who are viewing this thread
