New 5.0 DOHC GT to have 425hp?

[Ry_Trapp0]

In that case, neither is the BMW S62.

Everyone is saying 400+hp for the 5.0L in the Mustang GT on REGULAR octane. I'm not buying it.

well no shit! the jaguar AJV8 is NOT a modular engine just like the BMW S62 is NOT a modular engine. neither engine uses the modular architecture, neither engine is a part of the modular family.

i'm not sure who 'everyone' is, or where the consensus that this engine would run on regular come from, but it's pretty ignorant. premium unleaded is recommended in the 6.2l LS3 camaro.

Sure it skews the results, in favor of the Jag. The Jag engine would only make less power with port injection. Direct injection is typically good for about a 10% increase in horsepower and torque.

yep. and you seem to think that this is pretty much all the engine is capable of, as if A) the jag engineers are incapable of designing and NA 5.0l V8 that could possibly make that kind of power, or B) it's a physical impossibility for a 5.0l V8 to make this kind of power in a production form on pump gas. unless, of course, it's made from the same unobtanium with thermal dynamic modification that BMW uses.


i'm really not sure what your goal is here. either, A) you think the engineers at ford are just short of morons, or B) your arguing just for the sake of arguing. either way, it's getting old, and certainly isn't contributing anything positive to this discussion.

 

[R1der]

when do they announce the engine specs?

 

[Formula51]

yep. and you seem to think that this is pretty much all the engine is capable of, as if A) the jag engineers are incapable of designing and NA 5.0l V8 that could possibly make that kind of power, or B) it's a physical impossibility for a 5.0l V8 to make this kind of power in a production form on pump gas. unless, of course, it's made from the same unobtanium with thermal dynamic modification that BMW uses.


i'm really not sure what your goal is here. either, A) you think the engineers at ford are just short of morons, or B) your arguing just for the sake of arguing. either way, it's getting old, and certainly isn't contributing anything positive to this discussion.

Are you joking? I am repeatedly posting specifications and details and asking for information from existing Ford powerplants to compare it too. I am also asking for "educated" guesses on what the 5.0L Coyote might have in comparison. I am trying to look at existing 5.0L and the vehicles they are used in as a way to make an educated guess at what the Coyote will have.

The way I see, it I am the only one trying to contribute anything positive to this discussion. The only problem is no one else is participating with facts.

You say, "it will have better heads and a different architecture". Ok, well I have dug up some cam specs on the BMW, and I have compared the architectures in terms of bore/stroke and bore spacing of the Jaguar AJV8, Ford Modular, and BMW S62. They are all similar with the BMW being more oversquare than the rest and running tighter bore spacing than most expect for the Coyote.

So that leaves us with heads. Got any numbers? Any educated guesses? Can we look at the heads on the current 5.4L DOHC for comparison or would that be too different?

If you are not having fun with this, then by all means, don't bother. Its all good.:beer:

 

[Formula51]

i'm not sure who 'everyone' is, or where the consensus that this engine would run on regular come from, but it's pretty ignorant. premium unleaded is recommended in the 6.2l LS3 camaro.

Tons of board members in various threads, including this one I believe, have said they expect 400hp on regular octane.

Of course premium is recommended in the LS3, it was recommended in the LS1. All I am trying to say is that existing engines/technology do not support 400hp on regular octane without direct injection. ESPECIALLY, in a $30k car.

 

[Swannyvill]

lol awesome. make my car even slower lol

 

[91GT]

I thought I remember a year or so ago when fourcam was talking about this motor that it was going to make 375 on 87 and 400 on 93. Might make a bit more sense

 

[mustangmanjeff]

I thought I remember a year or so ago when fourcam was talking about this motor that it was going to make 375 on 87 and 400 on 93. Might make a bit more sense

Well I wouldnt expect less then 375-400,esp since its already confirmed there gonna be making 305hp out of the base 3.7liter v6 on low octane, why couldnt they make 375-400hp out of a 5.0 on low or high octane

 

[mrlrd1]

i'm really not sure what your goal is here. either, A) you think the engineers at ford are just short of morons

The 2V engines have head gasket oil leak problems and spark plug blowout problems.

The 3V engines have stuck/broken spark plugs problems and knocking cam phaser problems.

The 4V engines have poorly designed cooling ports that burn valves, and a select few have guide issues. They've also had more than their fair share of rod and main bearing failures.

ALL OF THOSE ARE INEXCUSABLE.

The modular line-up has always been short on fuel mileage, emissions, and power output when compared to the competition. The coils they use are crap, as are the 03+ injectors.

Short of the supercharged stuff, the mod motor has been a joke for over nearly 20 years. Hopefully Ford's engineers are a fresh group and the new engines live up to the hype, although I personally doubt it. I think the new 5.0 will be lucky to see 400HP, and certainly not in the regular GT.

 

[Jroc]

The 2V engines have head gasket oil leak problems and spark plug blowout problems.

The 3V engines have stuck/broken spark plugs problems and knocking cam phaser problems.

The 4V engines have poorly designed cooling ports that burn valves, and a select few have guide issues. They've also had more than their fair share of rod and main bearing failures.

ALL OF THOSE ARE INEXCUSABLE.

The modular line-up has always been short on fuel mileage, emissions, and power output when compared to the competition. The coils they use are crap, as are the 03+ injectors.

Short of the supercharged stuff, the mod motor has been a joke for over nearly 20 years. Hopefully Ford's engineers are a fresh group and the new engines live up to the hype, although I personally doubt it. I think the new 5.0 will be lucky to see 400HP, and certainly not in the regular GT.

I think you may be being a little overly harse here. I've seen serveral 200K+ mile Modular vehicles who's motors were running as smoothly as ever. In stock forum Modulars as a whole have proven to be very reliable. You act like no other series of motors have their problems. I've talked to LS guys who've said that they wanted to be able to spin their motors faster than 6,250 RPM's so they had to rebuild their valvetrain to be able to reach 7K RPM's.(they're not saying "I want to cam my car so I had to rebuild the drivetrain", they're saying "I just want to turn 7K RPM's so I had to rebuild my drivetrain") Many Terminator guys raise their redline to 7K in a tune with nothing required done to the valvetrain. I've also read, and was reading on here the other day where LS owners say that LS motors tend to burn oil a little bit. I've had a couple of Modular car, and my parents have several very high mileage Modular cars, and none of them noticably burn oil.

Now I'm not saying that I think Modulars are better than LS motors, I'm just pointing out that most all lines of motors are going to have their certain quirks to them. If you want to know what the Modulars biggest flaw is its their small displacement, and in particular their small bore size.

If the Modulars heads are giving you that much a problem then pony up and buy some January 05 heads, and you should be fine. I haven't heard of any problems with the FGT/GT500 heads either.

 

[mrlrd1]

I think you may be being a little overly harse here.

I am being critical, but not overly so.

I've seen serveral 200K+ mile Modular vehicles who's motors were running as smoothly as ever. In stock forum Modulars as a whole have proven to be very reliable.

I've see numerous Crown Vics traded in after police and then taxi service with over 400K miles and still running well. But that's certainly NOT the norm.

You act like no other series of motors have their problems.

Of course they do. But can you name a single engine line in automotive history that's had as many cylinder head related failures? And they're not just wear and mileage issues. They're outright design flaws. I'll leave the intake cracking and exhaust stud breaking problems alone - I'm talking about internal engine.

I've talked to LS guys who've said that they wanted to be able to spin their motors faster than 6,250 RPM's so they had to rebuild their valvetrain to be able to reach 7K RPM's.(they're not saying "I want to cam my car so I had to rebuild the drivetrain", they're saying "I just want to turn 7K RPM's so I had to rebuild my drivetrain") Many Terminator guys raise their redline to 7K in a tune with nothing required done to the valvetrain.

There are several LSx engines capable of over 6500rpm in stock form. And spinning even a stock 4V 4.6 or 5.4 to 7000rpm is pointless - a 2V or 3V motor? :lol: . They don't make power there.

I've also read, and was reading on here the other day where LS owners say that LS motors tend to burn oil a little bit. I've had a couple of Modular car, and my parents have several very high mileage Modular cars, and none of them noticably burn oil.

Ever get stuck behind an older 91-97 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car at redlight? They smoke like an 80s Caravan does during acceleration. They commonly have ring and valve seal problems over 100K miles.

If the Modulars heads are giving you that much a problem then pony up and buy some January 05 heads, and you should be fine. I haven't heard of any problems with the FGT/GT500 heads either.

I don't really have a problem with the modular engines honestly. I've made a very good living off of them. I've never dealt with the GT or GT500 stuff, and doubt I ever will. But like I said, hopefully the new engines will live up to the hype.

 

[Jroc]

I am being critical, but not overly so.

You are exaggerating problems. Yes the old 4v heads have a coolant flow flaw, but its never posed an issue for me, and it doesn't for most people. If you are wanting to play in the area's where it will present a problem your just going to have to man up, and drop money on the cures so that a problem isn't as likely to occur. But again with any motor when you want to raise its performance, or push any motor really hard you're going to eventually find its weakest link. I've never had a major mechanical problem from either 2v or 4v motors that I've owned.

The only coil pack problem I've seem is from a guy I work with who has a 07 F150. He had one go bad. I've never heard of an injector problem other than needing bigger ones for increased HP apps.

I've see numerous Crown Vics traded in after police and then taxi service with over 400K miles and still running well. But that's certainly NOT the norm.

Well its not the norm for most any motor. I had a mostly stock B18C1(I'm talking intake and exhaust mods) in my old Integra GSR shit the bed at 124K, but as a whole Honda motors last a very long time and are very reliable.

Of course they do. But can you name a single engine line in automotive history that's had as many cylinder head related failures? And they're not just wear and mileage issues. They're outright design flaws. I'll leave the intake cracking and exhaust stud breaking problems alone - I'm talking about internal engine.

IDK. I don't know as much about most other engines as I do Mods, but look at the power that people have push bone stock SC Modular longblocks to. I mean MM&FF made nearly 1,300 whp with a stock Terminator longblock running the Hellion Hellraiser kit. Know I'm sure that your not going to get any long lifespan out of that motor, but the fact that it will get you there and not break in the process is a real testiment to the motor. Name another factory motor other than maybe a 2JZ-GTE that will hold up to that kind of power without going into the motor.

The biggest problem I've experianced with a Modular is the intake manifold crack at the thermostat housing, and I had to buy a newer one with the aluminum piece cast in it.

There are several LSx engines capable of over 6500rpm in stock form. And spinning even a stock 4V 4.6 or 5.4 to 7000rpm is pointless - a 2V or 3V motor? :lol: . They don't make power there.

My point is a LS motor will make power at higher RPM's, but to get it there you will need to rebuild the drivetrain. Just like on a old SC Modular if you're wanting to play at WOT in your overdrive gears your going to want to step up to some heads that flow coolant better than the factory ones.

Why is spinning a 4v to 7000 RPM's pointless? They'll make power there, especially if running a blower or turbocharger thats more effecent than a factory Eaton. I agree about the SOHC motors not making power there, but so what. Why would you try and spin a 4v to 9,000 RPM as it would break, but if it would live there and make power at those RPM's then why not?

Ever get stuck behind an older 91-97 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car at redlight? They smoke like an 80s Caravan does during acceleration. They commonly have ring and valve seal problems over 100K miles.

You are talking about 12 year old and older cars, and most people don't buy Crown Vic for they're performance. Those were some of the very first of the Modulars.

My dads 97 F150 with a 4.6 has been dead reliable with right at 200K. The only real problem that truck has given him is the air condition stop blowing cool air at about 80K, but that has long since been fix. He even had the oil changed at one of those oil change shops one time and the idiots forgot to put oil in it and he drove it for several minutes before he realized this, but the truck never missed a beat because of it. I use to work with a guy who had an older Tundra with a 4.7 v8 which was pretty new at the time who had the same thing happen to him, and his motor blew up after just a few miles.

I don't really have a problem with the modular engines honestly. I've made a very good living off of them. I've never dealt with the GT or GT500 stuff, and doubt I ever will. But like I said, hopefully the new engines will live up to the hype.

I feel that Fords going to do their performance enthusiast good by this motor. I hope so anyway

 

[Falc'man]

Tons of board members in various threads, including this one I believe, have said they expect 400hp on regular octane.

Of course premium is recommended in the LS3, it was recommended in the LS1. All I am trying to say is that existing engines/technology do not support 400hp on regular octane without direct injection. ESPECIALLY, in a $30k car.

How much specific power does Ford's new 3.7 litre V6 have? I think you should move out of the 90's and take a good look at who's doing what!
Your argument is flawed, to draw conclusions based off what Jaguar put out is very short-sighted. And to produce 80hp/litre in an n/a isn't very difficult (unless you're GM).

 

[Riddla]

Some person is not happy the camaro will be 2nd against the mustang..............cough

 

[Falc'man]

Some person is not happy the camaro will be 2nd against the mustang..............cough

According to some publications it already is.

 

[mrlrd1]

The only coil pack problem I've seem is from a guy I work with who has a 07 F150. He had one go bad. I've never heard of an injector problem other than needing bigger ones for increased HP apps.

Seriously? Why don't you poll this board? Or a Google search? The coil packs on the 2V, 3V, and 4V engines go bad, A LOT! Ford has even released customer satisfaction programs for certain vehicles. Ford part numbers can be very useful if you know what you're looking at. Do you know how many times the COP has been updated for your car?

Injectors? Nearly fail-proof until 03. The 3Vs seems to get the bulk of the problems. They stick open. Check your local dealer for injector failure and resulting catalytic converter failure rates on the 3Vs, under warranty.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

How much specific power does Ford's new 3.7 litre V6 have? I think you should move out of the 90's and take a good look at who's doing what!
Your argument is flawed, to draw conclusions based off what Jaguar put out is very short-sighted. And to produce 80hp/litre in an n/a isn't very difficult (unless you're GM).

Some person is not happy the camaro will be 2nd against the mustang..............cough

no doubt @ both. i'm amazed at how the lower HP direct injection jag 5.0l is a better comparison than the port injection equipped BMW 5.0l(i hear that those hollow camshafts and individual throttle bodies add 100HP:lol.
can't wait to see the new gen catfish get dominated!

 

[Formula51]

no doubt @ both. i'm amazed at how the lower HP direct injection jag 5.0l is a better comparison than the port injection equipped BMW 5.0l(i hear that those hollow camshafts and individual throttle bodies add 100HP:lol.
can't wait to see the new gen catfish get dominated!

You guys are so off base. I could care less about the new Camaro (too heavy) and the new Mustang is getting darn heavy as well.


Let me simplify this for you guys:

Show me a production, naturally aspirated 5.0L making 400hp on regular octance fuel?

Now tell me why a $30k Mustang GT is going to be the first for this industry advancement?

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

i love how you went from "it's not gonna have 400HP!!!" to "it's not gonna have 400HP... ...on regular gas!!!". NO SHIT!

 

[Formula51]

i love how you went from "it's not gonna have 400HP!!!" to "it's not gonna have 400HP... ...on regular gas!!!". NO SHIT!

I have never expected it to have 400hp (but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be surprised, hopefully pleasantly). However, when people started talking about 400hp on regular octane, that's when I got more interested as it just didn't seam possible. After looking into it, I still think it isn't.

Let's not kid oursleves. 400hp from 5.0L would be very impressive in a $30k car. If it happens, then I will be very impressed with Ford.:rockon:

 

[Falc'man]

I have never expected it to have 400hp (but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be surprised, hopefully pleasantly). However, when people started talking about 400hp on regular octane, that's when I got more interested as it just didn't seam possible. After looking into it, I still think it isn't.

Let's not kid oursleves. 400hp from 5.0L would be very impressive in a $30k car. If it happens, then I will be very impressed with Ford.:rockon:

Hey, you never know, it is the internet after all. However when considering some of the credible sources, that have a reliable history, making a statement, then it's wise to sit up and pay attention.
But. If "my mate's wife's 2nd cousin's uncle's brother-in-law's monkey's crocodile" comes up with a rumour, you would think twice about it.

Fourcam330 mentioned these figures a very, very long time ago, and other credible sources have backed these numbers. The issue is, if you don't know these guy's history then of course you can get a bit skeptical.

But, forget all that now. The 3.7's specific power should give you an idea of what to expect from the 5 litre. On 87 octane.

The Aussie 5.4 Boss is rated at 422hp (on higher octane) but with nowhere the amount of "bells and whistles" that this new unit has. In my opinion, 400 is conservative.

Cheers.