The old airplane on a conveyor...

James Snover

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A light is placed equal distance between two men who are standing at opposite ends of an arbitrarily long train moving at the speed of light.

Who sees the light in the middle of the train first?

Neither would see it first as at those velocities the light would be bumped up to the level of gamma rays, to which the human eye is unresponsive. However, the gamma rays would reach each end of the train _at the same time_ because both sets of gamma rays are still traveling at the speed of light. The only detectable difference to an observer in the middle would be higher frequency gamma rays at the oncoming end, and lower frequency gamma rays at the receding end, due to Doppler shift.
 

James Snover

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Ok, pop quiz: The sun goes out. Just goes completely dark. Would Earth immediately lose all it's light?

Would there be a delay before the sky went dark?

How long?

Why?
 

BigPoppa

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Neither would see it first as at those velocities the light would be bumped up to the level of gamma rays, to which the human eye is unresponsive. However, the gamma rays would reach each end of the train _at the same time_ because both sets of gamma rays are still traveling at the speed of light. The only detectable difference to an observer in the middle would be higher frequency gamma rays at the oncoming end, and lower frequency gamma rays at the receding end, due to Doppler shift.
Excellent answer!

It was quite "relative" to the problem.

Now for a bonus question!

If I'm standing beside the train as it passes by, how far apart are the two men from each other from my perspective? From their perspective?
 

BigPoppa

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Ok, pop quiz: The sun goes out. Just goes completely dark. Would Earth immediately lose all it's light?

Would there be a delay before the sky went dark?

How long?

Why?
8 minutes. But the moon would still be bright in our sky for another second or so.

Why? Our distance from the Sun divided by C. ;)
 

RedVenom48

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The only wronkle is that IF the plane were already traveling at the speed and in the direction of the conveyor, it would need to overcome that FIRST before it gained enough thrust to takeoff. But it still takes off. :)
 

Weather Man

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I don't think a prop job getting airborne in the experiment proves a 747 would. The prop is generating airflow over the wings and generating thrust. If the plane is held stationary by a treadmill, no lift, the wheels can spin as fast as they want. 747 thrust is not even close to gross weight.
 

blk02edge

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What about earths gravitational tie to the sun? Immediately or delayed? Let someone else answer though lol
 

Coiled03

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I don't think a prop job getting airborne in the experiment proves a 747 would. The prop is generating airflow over the wings and generating thrust. If the plane is held stationary by a treadmill, no lift, the wheels can spin as fast as they want. 747 thrust is not even close to gross weight.

Huh? So, how do they get rolling from a dead stop on a real runway? Besides, the plane ISN'T being held stationary by the treadmill. That's the whole point.
 

DHG1078

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I don't think a prop job getting airborne in the experiment proves a 747 would. The prop is generating airflow over the wings and generating thrust. If the plane is held stationary by a treadmill, no lift, the wheels can spin as fast as they want. 747 thrust is not even close to gross weight.

There is literally no difference between a prop or jet engine in this scenario. Both the prop and jet engines generate thrust which push the plane forward, which the forward movement in turn generates the lift. The wheels spin freely on the landing gear.
 

Troponin

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Traveling at the speed of light is impossible. Theoretically, we would be at absolute zero the entire time, but never achieve it. The question about traveling at the speed of light would be nothing more than a set of theories that could never happen, nor be proven.
 

AustinSN

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What about earths gravitational tie to the sun? Immediately or delayed? Let someone else answer though lol
Hmmm..

This is an interesting question, I've never even considered that before.

Snover, does gravity move at a specific speed? I'm gonna text a friend who might know this answer.
 

Black02GT

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Traveling at the speed of light is impossible. Theoretically, we would be at absolute zero the entire time, but never achieve it. The question about traveling at the speed of light would be nothing more than a set of theories that could never happen, nor be proven.

Which is why all the text book word it as "near speed of light" or .9c, something like that. Just stupid scenarios to illustrate special relativity, Lorentz transformations, time dialation, etc. The effect still come into play well below speed of light and definitely do happen and can be proven. The corrections needed for GPS is the usual everyday example.

Hmmm..

This is an interesting question, I've never even considered that before.

Snover, does gravity move at a specific speed? I'm gonna text a friend who might know this answer.

Gravitational waves are finite energy waves and therefore move at the speed of light as far as my understanding. If you want to get really picky you would technically receive the gravity first as the light would be slowed in the atmosphere. I could be over looking something though.
 
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Weather Man

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There is literally no difference between a prop or jet engine in this scenario. Both the prop and jet engines generate thrust which push the plane forward, which the forward movement in turn generates the lift. The wheels spin freely on the landing gear.

I googled it and wow! It is basically a crappy question and it depends how and in relation to what the treadmill is spun. I view it as the treadmill magically allows the 747 to be stationary with zero ground speed. Zero ground speed means zero lift and hence the plane will not takeoff. F22 would take off, it has greater than 1 to 1 power to weight ratio. That would be something to see.
 

BRNG ITT

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Hmmm..

This is an interesting question, I've never even considered that before.

Snover, does gravity move at a specific speed? I'm gonna text a friend who might know this answer.

Gravity is acceleration, so yes and no.
 

AustinSN

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My buddy replied about the speed of gravity, apparently it's the speed of light according to Einstein.
 

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