I've got my stock 14 housing I'm selling, if you wanted to get the show on the road
Warrant Issue carrier bearing failed
- Thread starter nsstang
- Start date
If you want to keep the car and want it on the road sooner rather than later you should work out a deal with Ford where they reimburse you for the purchase price for the used housing. It's an extenuating circumstance and with enough phone calls you'll get taken care of. It's crappy luck. Don't get an attorney involved, just work the appropriate channels.
Call Ford Racing and get them involved. However, it sounds like you are indefinitely waiting. As stated above, I would ask what can be done to get a good core to work from, even if you have to purchase it and get reimbursed somehow.
Tom
Tom
OP - sorry to hear of your issue. This really has me concerned that Ford doesn't have this part in stock. It sounds like a couple people on this forum have had this same failure. I wonder how common it is, and what the cause might be?
The issue isn't that Ford doesn't want to keep an axle in stock in the PDC's. The problem is the supplier isn't able to supply them to Ford right now. It's a really sad situation but I am seeing this with numerous parts and not limited to just Mustangs.
To me this remark was condescending and as such I take it as a hostile remark. Maybe I should grow a thicker skin. But with the many negative posts against my engine thread by members of the forum I don't take any remark made directly towards me in a condescending manner as non-hostile. I didn't keep an inventory list of who was a supporter or who was a bad guy in that thread. Only a few stood out and I will remember them for it. My activity level since that debacle on this forum has gone down significantly. I wasn't trying to say anything but my experiences and thoughts of what is happening and why this rear axle housing is no longer available. The OP needs to file a complaint with FMC Customer Service. It even clearly states that in the Owners Manual for the car he bought when a warranty issue can't be resolved quickly.
Now lets talk a little bit about FMC and the problem associated with producing this part number axle housing, since you think that there is no possibility of the repurchasing the car to clear up this warranty issue. By the way this will be the mind set of BIG CORPORATION. The 13/14 GT500 rear axle housing is all to its own. So the total production of the 13/14 MYs GT500s is roughly 12,000-12,500 if I'm not mistaken. So Ford would have looked at the likelihood of warranty failures and built a enough to cover this, but no more in the new world of JIT manufacturing. A calculated 1% failure rate of a housing in warranty would mean that Ford produced an extra 125 housing to match the production numbers.
Now lets look at this failure a little closer. The carrier bearing race spun inside of the carrier bearing housing. Why? Well this again comes up the fact that each and every part of this car is assembled with a plus or minus tolerance by both Ford and the vendors Ford uses to supply parts. The housings was evidently machined to the plus side of the tolerance, while the bearing race was machined to the minus side of the tolerance. Unfortunately for the OP the tolerances didn't stack up in his favor. They stacked up to actually cause a low clamp load between the carrier bearing race and the carrier bearing cap of the rear axle housing. So as things moved with miles driven the bearing starts to fail because the race isn't solidly clamped into the housing. The bearing builds heat and scores the race. The race then spins in the carrier bearing cap and housing. We now have a damaged housing that will no longer apply clamp load to a new race. The housing is junk.
At this time Ford only builds F-150 pick-up trucks and Ford Transit-150 vans with 8.8 axle housings in them to my knowledge. The axle plant must build that many axles a day to keep both of the F-150 up and running, plus the Transit van plant running. I believe Ford is building more than 500,000 of those vehicles a year. Think about that........500,000 vehicles a year with new 8.8 rear axle housings. The axle plant is pretty busy.........don't you think? Now the pickup and van housings use LEAF SPRINGS to attach the rear axle housing to the frame of the vehicle.
2013/2014 GT500s use..........WHAT to attach the rear axle to the car? Hm......Does the cast iron center section of the pickup and van have an extra casting for an Upper Control Arm Bushing?
Now not only does the axle plant have to build the housing, but now the foundry where the center section is cast has to pull out the old molds to cast the center section to build an axle.
Now lets look at the brackets for the Lower Control Arms, Panhard Bar and Shocks. These are a stamping of steel plate for each and every piece to make them that are bent and welded to the housings. So now FMC has to get the stamping plant to stop making the pieces for the F-150 and vans to make obsolete parts again.
You have forgotten one thing about all of this.............Ford is running each and every facet in a JIT Inventory system. To convert the foundry, the stamping plant and the axle assembly plant to build 1000 S197 housings is to be jeopardizing the production of how many F-150 production on a daily basis?
Would it be cheaper for Ford to repurchase the car to honor the warranty? Would it be cheaper for Ford to stop current production of the F-150 and Transit van axles to accommodate a small warrant problem? Would it jeopardize a number of peoples income to shift from one axle to another? Remember Ford not only has to make the parts to build the axle, but they also have to retool each facility that supplies the parts to make the axle housing as a whole of those parts.
I've been reading some things about Volkswagen and the problem they're facing with the EPA fine and the costs of retro fitting all of the TDI diesel engines in the US and Canada. Do you realize that there is a thought that it would be cheaper to purchase every vehicle back from customers, instead of fixing the cars. Why? Because it actually may be cheaper for Volkswagen to do this. Big business is only about making the stock holders happy . To keep the stock holders happy you as a company do the things that make you money.
Now the question is this. Does Ford have enough extra parts to keep the F-150 and Transit van line running, while it retools the necessary plants to produce an obsolete rear axle housing for a few warranty issues? Since Ford Racing has removed all 8.8 S197 products that used a rear axle housing from the new catalog........what do you think that foretells?
I've dealt with large corporations when trying to source parts in the past. Mostly BorgWarner Turbo Systems. I purchase roughly 100 turbos a year for my customers. Of these some are a little hard to get. In fact one that BW makes isn't usually stocked or sold in this country. I've had many dealings with an associate that works at BW in Asheville NC plant. At time I must call him to see if he''ll allow the retail side to steal parts from the production side of the business to get me what I need. He has also gone to great lengths to tell me who each of the last BW distributors were that purchased the part I'm looking for. At which point I am calling each of those distributors to see if they still have it in inventory. The one turbo in particular I have a hard time finding is built by Borg in the UK. It is only produced once a year by BW in the UK. So it is a very limited item to find in the system at times and the production schedule of it isn't driven by the customers lack of not being able to get their hands on it. Yes I again it becomes a matter of JIT Inventory systems and what selling at the moment, versus what isn't
You have to realize the majority of the S197 Mustangs out in the field are already out of warranty. What is in the best interest of the stock holders at this point? Now what do you think is the possibility of Ford deciding that it may be cheaper to repurchase the car to honor the warranty versus the possibility of stopping the two factories building 500,000 F-150 pick up trucks a year? Money is king and the stock holders demand a profit from the corporation. Until the production of the axle plant is so far ahead of the truck plant, the S197 Mustang housing will remain in limbo as they have for over a year now
Are you being supplied with a comparable loaner car while your car is waiting for parts ?
David
Ford does not supply loaner vehicles, that is up to the individual dealership. I cannot forsee them putting him in a loaner vehicle 'indefinitely' with no ETA on back ordered parts, though.
And what the dude said at the bottom of page 1 is 150% correct. People can call and complain all day, ford wants to fix your car as much as you want it fixed. It's a supplier issue, out of fords control. I would follow the aftermarket option, I bet they'd go for that just to get you back on the road. Be weary though, the dealership won't cover aftermarket parts, it's up to the parts manufacturer to warranty if something goes wrong.
the axle plant that makes the S197 axle housing assemblies is owned by Ford and not an outside vendor
http://www.at.ford.com/news/Plants/Pages/default.aspx?PlantName=Sterling Axle
http://www.at.ford.com/news/Plants/Pages/default.aspx?PlantName=Sterling Axle
I agree that this is probably at the heart of the problem. It will be very expensive to set up a production line for such a relatively small quantity of units. I also think that Ford has no choice but to order it done at some point, hopefully sooner than later.
I ordered one of these housings (DR3Z-4010-A ) from Autonation (White Bear Lake) back in early August of 14, and it was back ordered with no ETA at that time. Luckily, one showed up for me about a month later. It arrived in Los Angeles in perfect condition on a pallet mid-September 14. I haven't yet started on the project I'm going to use it for, so it's still sitting on the pallet. Little moisture in So. California, so rust is not a problem.
Judging by the current scarcity of these housings, I think I'll secure it with a heavy chain.
The problem is it has been longer than a year already with no resolution on Ford's part to replenish the inventory system. The difference between the earlier and 13/14 GT500 housing is a simple machining process of the pinion bearing pocket for the larger race to be installed and the extra welding of the axle tubes to the cst iron center section. Outside of that the housings are to earlier cars. Ford to save time could easily build a large number of the 13/14 housings and tell anybody that needed one for the earlier cars to upgrade to the larger pinion bearing. This would make it easier for Ford to satisfy both types of customers, while limiting the amount of time in retooling for two products out of inventory versus one.I agree that this is probably at the heart of the problem. It will be very expensive to set up a production line for such a relatively small quantity of units. I also think that Ford has no choice but to order it done at some point, hopefully sooner than later.
I ordered one of these housings (DR3Z-4010-A ) from Autonation (White Bear Lake) back in early August of 14, and it was back ordered with no ETA at that time. Luckily, one showed up for me about a month later. It arrived in Los Angeles in perfect condition on a pallet mid-September 14. I haven't yet started on the project I'm going to use it for, so it's still sitting on the pallet. Little moisture in So. California, so rust is not a problem.
Judging by the current scarcity of these housings, I think I'll secure it with a heavy chain.
i honestly believe that until the demand for F-150 pickup trucks slows down drastically that Ford isn't going to do anything about this issue quickly
One thing I've noticed with this thread is that Dasha from Ford Customer Service that is a member of the forum hasn't commented. Where as in the past she tries to facilitate a quick resolution. That in itself says something too
You lost me there, what does the demand of the F-150 have to do with the Housing assembly?
If I'm not mistaken the bearing are the same in the F150 and '13 and '14 rears.
He's stating Ford's priority is fulfilling supply for F150 builds, not for replenishing warranty stock for '13-14 GT500s.
Yes the '13-14 does take a unique/larger pinion bearing, but I think it's from an Explorer not necessarily the recent '15+ F150.
This 8.8 has given me whine problems, bearing issues as with the OP, and even axle issues for others; I never heard of these issues with older 8.8s.
Seems like they are on the fence with stock power and really need a full build with mods and racing abuse.
-J
To my knowledge the only Ford plant making the 8.8 axle housings is the Ford Sterling Axle Plant in Sterling Michigan. At this time that plant is tooled to make 8.8 axle housings for the 2016 F-150 pickup truck and the 2016 Transit-150 Vans.
Unless Ford sees a major reduction of sales of those 2016 vehicles that use a solid rear axle 8.8 assembly and they reduce the two truck plants run capacity. Ford will not retool the Ford Sterling Axle plant to make non-current production 13/14 GT500 8.8 axle housings for warranty or retail sales. What everybody doesn't think about is the fact that every facet of building a vehicle today is done with a Just In Time delivery and inventory system. This means if the two F-150 plants are running at a high volume of the total capacity of each plant then the Ford Sterling Axle plant is running as hard to keep inventory in the pipeline to keep those two plants running with 8.8 rears assemblies specifically for those new vehicles. If Ford takes the time to shutdown, retool, and manufacture the obsolete 13/14 GT500 axle housing, they then jeopardize losing production of the 2016 F-150 pickup trucks at current production levels. When they run out of the completed 8.8 rear axle assembly inventory for the F-150s two truck plants running at the current production capacity.
Ford isn't going to shutdown or slowdown two plants production levels making pickup trucks, because they need 8.8 axle housings for a car that is no longer in production. The problem is the capacity of the axle plant is keeping up with the scheduling and building of trucks and doesn't seem to have any extra capacity to take care of the warranty issues of a now non-production part that was built in the same plant for a car that Ford no longer produces.
Customer Service is one thing, but how do you explain to your dealers and share holders you idled a truck plant to build a small run of axles? It would be cheaper for Ford to buy this car back to honor the warranty issue. The OP stated the car has been sitting for 12 weeks.........think about that. That is 84 days and counting. Depending on the state laws of where the car was originally purchased it would easily qualify for most states lemon laws. Either the OP has to bite his tongue and hope Ford builds an axle or he needs to start some sort of grievance with Ford to get them to decide to do something. The problem is will they say, fine here is a check for your car or will they decide to retool the axle plant. As far as doing anything aftermarket in supplying a used housing or converting to a 9" housing. That doesn't fall under any of Ford's obligation to honor the warranty as it is written.
Yes the larger pinion bearing of the truck was used in the 13/14 GT500 cars. But that isn't the issue. Read the post above
You got it J
Ahh thanks bad company and Bimini for the explanations. Sure feel for the owner who's car is sitting and no fix in sight.
so if someone stay totally stock they should have no issues correct.
There have been failures posted about stock GT500's with rear-end and bent axle problems. The problem is that the rear-end is not designed to handle the power that the car makes and you drive it like the cars in Fords ads and commercials, failures will occur. It is one of the weak links and it looks like Ford refuses to admit it and has not tried to remedy the problem with replacements or an upgraded part.
If Ford actually is able to produce more of the rear ends, there is no guarantee they will be any better than the originals.
If the getting your hands on parts for a 2 year old car are this bad now, think of how it will be in the future.
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