My 2 cents here. If the GT500 would have run a great time I am sure svt would have published it. When you boast a car does 200 mph and no one can duplicate it, I am sure if there was agreat ring time run it would have been made "offical".
SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In With His Opinion of The 2013 GT500 @ The Nürburgring
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I don't post here often, but I got this in an email / PM so here goes, for the ZL1 vs. guys.
It is a known fact that stock cars (GTR, 911, whatever) have been spotted with roll cages, non-factory tires, lightened chassis, "sport-tuned" suspensions, etc. in their runs. The cars are not stock.
Mr. Hameedi is correct, all these times are doctored and mean absolutely nothing. I guess SVT could take a GT500, put race tires, race gace, race suspension, lighten it, hide a roll cage and bracing, and send a pro 'Ring driver out in it to set a time, but WGASWGAF about that? Bench racers, that's who.
Source: a dude who has no intention of ever owning any of the cars on this list since he has had a couple of kiddos.
It is a known fact that stock cars (GTR, 911, whatever) have been spotted with roll cages, non-factory tires, lightened chassis, "sport-tuned" suspensions, etc. in their runs. The cars are not stock.
Mr. Hameedi is correct, all these times are doctored and mean absolutely nothing. I guess SVT could take a GT500, put race tires, race gace, race suspension, lighten it, hide a roll cage and bracing, and send a pro 'Ring driver out in it to set a time, but WGASWGAF about that? Bench racers, that's who.
Source: a dude who has no intention of ever owning any of the cars on this list since he has had a couple of kiddos.
The answer and reasons are a total joke.
List the driver and stats about the car(fuel, oil, tires and pressure, brakes/fluids, curb weight) as well as track conditions and weather. That will give a complete picture. We all know what temperature does to hp numbers.
Its a put up or shut up track. Ford has no business stating they ran the track until an official time is posted. It was difficult to read that article and the excuses. And I'm a huge performance mustang guy. Post it up!!!
List the driver and stats about the car(fuel, oil, tires and pressure, brakes/fluids, curb weight) as well as track conditions and weather. That will give a complete picture. We all know what temperature does to hp numbers.
Its a put up or shut up track. Ford has no business stating they ran the track until an official time is posted. It was difficult to read that article and the excuses. And I'm a huge performance mustang guy. Post it up!!!
IIRC, GM has stated in their Ring runs (the Z06/Z07 and ZR1 specifically), they have telemetry, race seat/harnesses (for safety), and brake fluid. The car is otherwise 100% stock down to the alignment, tires, etc. I'm guessing the same info could be located for the ZL1 and Z/28. GM doesn't need to hide anything on their runs. It is what it is. Some cars are faster and many are slower.
GM is proud of their chassis, suspension, brakes, performance traction management, and powertrain integration. GM worked hard on that and they are happy with their product.
Ford took an inferior platform and put an absolute top-of-the-line monster engine in the new GT500. I can see the appeal of that, but what kills me is Ford didn't even integrate brake ducting into the GT500. That's pretty sad IMHO. Then again, I'm a road course guy, so that kind of stuff is important to me (ala ZR1). For 99% of the guys/gals? who buy a GT500, they couldn't give one and a half craps about anything besides that monster engine. I, too, understand the appeal of that.
Honestly for beating around town as a fun daily driver, I'd probably get the GT500 over the ZL1 myself and I own two factory supercharged GM V8 cars. Then again, I'd just get the CTS-V for similiar money and have a better overall, albeit slightly slower, daily driver car which is what I did, I guess.
GM is proud of their chassis, suspension, brakes, performance traction management, and powertrain integration. GM worked hard on that and they are happy with their product.
Ford took an inferior platform and put an absolute top-of-the-line monster engine in the new GT500. I can see the appeal of that, but what kills me is Ford didn't even integrate brake ducting into the GT500. That's pretty sad IMHO. Then again, I'm a road course guy, so that kind of stuff is important to me (ala ZR1). For 99% of the guys/gals? who buy a GT500, they couldn't give one and a half craps about anything besides that monster engine. I, too, understand the appeal of that.
Honestly for beating around town as a fun daily driver, I'd probably get the GT500 over the ZL1 myself and I own two factory supercharged GM V8 cars. Then again, I'd just get the CTS-V for similiar money and have a better overall, albeit slightly slower, daily driver car which is what I did, I guess.
Nice try, Tob. Al Oppenheimer is holding an IPhone and the screen shot is a Motorola. Good one though. 
Yes, you can only keep your yard clean. You are allowed to prep the car for safety, and adjust to within factory specs. No parts swaps. Well, tires are always going to be an issue.
I don't see it as Ford vs. GM. For decades, the automotive press has trashed American Performance cars. Now they are World Class contenders. Who would have thought a 4-door Cadillac would smoke some of Germany's finest right in their own backyard at the Ring?
Some of these "Chinzy, Gas Guzzling, Dinosaurs, with Crappy Interiors and Foul Handling" are now be giving Euro sportscars a run for their money for LESS money. It's not the cupholders; I'm certain of the that.
I've always loved the "Cheap Plastic Interior" crap thrown at American Cars. It's really not that much different than the "Expensive Cheap Plastic Interiors" that some snob-mobiles are fitted with.
Ford: "Whup it Out. Time To Measure."
I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about the ZL1 is going to mothballed as the car that couldn't how many of them are being sold now?
I have a dealer about 2 blocks from my work and they have about 6 that have sat there for 6 months same 6 colors same 6 cars. Now the Z28 is here and dubbed as a Race Car and with all the bad press that has come out about issues with the ZL1 and it's lack luster performance per cost it's doomed.
GT500 1-2 per dealer ZL1 per dealer likely double digits and they will be taking hits to try to move them good news for Chevy guys.
The sales alone victory is likely staggering between the two cars not even close. If GM isn't carefull and have cars they can't sell, Camaro being the cause it may go away again. I mean I can't count how many V6 Camaro's I see per day but 1LE's ZL1's and Z28's are as plentifull as National Holidays and are seen just as often.
I have a dealer about 2 blocks from my work and they have about 6 that have sat there for 6 months same 6 colors same 6 cars. Now the Z28 is here and dubbed as a Race Car and with all the bad press that has come out about issues with the ZL1 and it's lack luster performance per cost it's doomed.
GT500 1-2 per dealer ZL1 per dealer likely double digits and they will be taking hits to try to move them good news for Chevy guys.
The sales alone victory is likely staggering between the two cars not even close. If GM isn't carefull and have cars they can't sell, Camaro being the cause it may go away again. I mean I can't count how many V6 Camaro's I see per day but 1LE's ZL1's and Z28's are as plentifull as National Holidays and are seen just as often.
Not sure why everyone is so upset, both car are evenly matched except for heat soak of the brakes.
From lessons learned at the track one would think Ford would just duct air to control the issue. JMHO.
2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 - Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca - Motor Trend
From lessons learned at the track one would think Ford would just duct air to control the issue. JMHO.
2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 - Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca - Motor Trend
Fishstyx
New Member
Wow, I'm really surprised at all the posts here who have a problem with the Ford response. How hard is it to understand that ANYTHING that comes out of a marketing department is suspect. Why do any of us need Ford to publish a Ring time when there is so much independent / real world (i.e. reliable) information to run with. Asking a marketing department to tell you how great the car is is like asking a prostitute to judge your looks.
Any consumer who builds their opinion of a product based on what the marketing department tells you is a straight fool, IMHO. Same goes for anyone who thinks less of a product because the vendor bluntly tells you it's not playing that game.
Any consumer who builds their opinion of a product based on what the marketing department tells you is a straight fool, IMHO. Same goes for anyone who thinks less of a product because the vendor bluntly tells you it's not playing that game.
Actually the plenum had to be replaced along with a less restrictive catback and the computer had to be retuned to lean it down.
We the owners were told by SVT that we wouldn't know 320 hp if it bit us in the ass. :rollseyes After a bunch of owners had Rousch dyno their Cobra's at an average of 250 rwh, Ford had to listen. Up until that time they blew us off.
I call horse crap. Ford won't publish times because its embarrassed about getting its ass handed to it by Chevy in the form of the zl1.
The GT500 was made for dyno queens and bench racers where as the zl1, 1le, z28 and Boss were made for hitting apexes.
The GT500 was made for dyno queens and bench racers where as the zl1, 1le, z28 and Boss were made for hitting apexes.
americansteel
Banned
"To the naked eye it appears that GM may have been shaving their lap times a bit by fiddling with their timers"
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
americansteel
Banned
The GT500 was made for dyno queens and bench racers where as the zl1, 1le, z28 and Boss were made for hitting apexes.[/QUOTE]
so true
so true
What ford say the gt500 would run in the 1/4th mile?
Ford lap times sucked and they can't own it. All independent test show the ZL1 owning it and the 1LE nipping at it toes. Thankfully they are going with an IRS next year. MAybe they will improve the rear brakes and suspension.
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