SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In With His Opinion of The 2013 GT500 @ The Nürburgring

[BlackBolt9]

No, I'm just making WAY more speed than that Mustang, WAY more. SRF is the best fluid and it's used by real race teams for a reason. I'm sure that Brembo fluid works great on a slow Mustang, but it won't hold up in a fast car.

Yup, you know all, what's your experience in a real race car? Not a street car on a race track. Ever went through a 6hr race and 25mm brake pads on that thing? Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've seen much more than just a Mustang on track and some people magically make it without using your almighty SRF. Do you really think that Daytona Prototypes, GT cars, Indy cars, NASCAR, all run SRF? Seriously? You still have absolutely no technical information, so you want to try and provide anecdotal evidence because you've driven a fast Corvette. Wonderful, you still don't actually know what you are talking about.

Slow mustang, ha! You're a riot!

Time charts of time spent through certain sectors at VIR
Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver

Cool, thanks. I already agreed the Camaro puts down power better. I still am not seeing the mid corner comparison, which page is it on? :shrug:

Congrats you quoted an article. They are still the same tire no matter how you chop it.

Not necessarily, you do realise they can put different compounds of rubber on the "same tire" don't you?

I know plenty about braking. Clearly more than you. And everything you say further proves how bad the brakes are compared to the Camaro.

Ummm, I don't get what you are saying here? What's "everything I say"? Could you type more clearly please, I can't read your thoughts.

What's the matter, gave up on the suspension argument? I suggest you give up all together. Your dyno queen got it's ass handed to it at a REAL race track. Until Ford gives the gt500 or Boss a proper suspension, they'll be behing the camaro at most every road course

Nope, not even gonna start in on the suspension. That's a much more complex argument, which I don't honestly know enough about. All I do know is that to make a Camaro race car fast, there needs to be geometry changes made according to the guys I've talked with that ran in the Continental Tire series. Mustangs weren't allowed to make geometry changes and were still faster.

EDIT: And the one new Camaro I know of being built for NASA American Iron hasn't been anything to cheer about either.

Is the GT500 faster than the ZL1 on a road course, not from what I've seen. I've never said it was. In fact, I said I'd bet the ZL1 was faster at the 'Ring multiple times. But that doesn't mean the whole S197 chassis is junk or that the new Camaro chassis is awesome either.

 

[O'Neill]

Im confused with the logic here.... The GT500 is a dyno queen and for bench racers, yet it was faster at Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, tied at Grattan, higher top speed, faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile, shorter 60-0 stopping, and ive yet to see any real world videos of any ZL1 beating a GT500 at anything.

If thats the definition of a dyno queen, sign me up!

 

[me32]

I could care less about the ring since it isn't a factor for anyone that buys the car in america

 

[Got-Cobra?]

So now we've got people saying the GT500 doesn't actually go 200mph+ because two crappy magazines couldn't do it on an OVAL track...WTF!?!? :shrug:

I know I'm not the only person to ever run faster in my own car than any magazine has ever published for the same vehicle so why are magazines considered the law... :??:

:lol:

Im confused with the logic here.... The GT500 is a dyno queen and for bench racers, yet it was faster at Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, tied at Grattan, higher top speed, faster 0-60, faster 1/4 mile, shorter 60-0 stopping, and ive yet to see any real world videos of any ZL1 beating a GT500 at anything.

If thats the definition of a dyno queen, sign me up!

BINGO! :rockon:

I could care less about the ring since it isn't a factor for anyone that buys the car in america

....and things continue with why SVT hasn't wasted time on bench racing Ring times!

I guess the new GTR isn't as great as they claim: Did Nissan send a ringer GT-R to run the 'Ring? [w/video] - Autoblog

...but a few of you argued that they have no reason to lie about OEM cars making the runs... :rollseyes

 

[5PNTSLO]

I for one think its funny Ford won't play monkey see monkey do, gm could build a car that has a lap time of 6.00 and I wouldn't buy it still.

 

[skratpiece]

Jamal is absolutely totally 100% correct with his views. If you disagree, and think that Ford should release a useless, non standardized, non regulated lap time just to appease forums, then you're not worth their time.

 

[chuckstang]

I'm sorry, did my comment offend you? I forget this forum is filled with flag waving pansies who can't take a dose of reality. Please go ahead and delete my comment, its already been quoted twice.
The GT500 sucks at handling, it can't put its power down, its overweight and for track use its under-braked.
You can go back to waving that GT500 flag now...right below the Bowtie flag, because until Ford can figure out how to put the power down on corner exit, that's where it will be, behind the Camaro

One question for you sir. Why is the GT500 faster than the Zl1 in every single coparison, even when there are turns and since it cant put the power down it should be slower in a straight line as well...

 

[fdjizm]

I wish the chief of SVT wouldn't use "lol" in an email. I know an email is fairly informal, but sheesh....

Okay, Rings times aren't standardized, but they are still a gauge for overall performance. I do wish Ford would post their Ring times. The fact that Ford and even most Porsche models don't post official ring times is pretty telling IMHO. I love that GM is such a big Ring time company. Since I do road course driving with my ZR1, I love knowing my ZR1 can run a sub 7:20 at the Ring with a damn good driver. It gives me a warm fuzzy and helps me sleep well at night just like Jamal sleeps well knowing his GT500 is selling well even if it's slower on the road course than a ZL1 with nearly 100 less horsepower.

BTW, I love the GT500. I love they can release a 650+ real world horsepower car for less than $70k.

Finally, hope this doesn't piss too many people off, but I think that GT500 track video is NOT on a stock GT500. As the GT500 overheats it's brakes within a few laps on a normal track, I think at a bare minimum this car has DOT 4 brake fluid, brake ducting, and good track pads. Not that the aforementioned is a big deal and it's very smart insurance so they don't kill any of their Ford test drivers, but it's not stock.

I always thought ring times were just marketing material... I haven't heard of anyone sending their car to germany to run the ring. Being no standard way of testing cars there and it's all up to whoever brought the car, you're basically guessing that the gt500 wasn't stock, your opinion is not fact.

Also if you're comparing manufacturers you will note that there was never a stock or even production ZL1 that ran on the ring.
Again comparing manufacturers they have no loyalty to tell you the truth about anything. Manufacturers lie all the time.
GM even lied in a commercial to the american public.

 

[Mike L.]

Ford never lied ding bat, there was an issue with the intake manifold and once that got fixed it made the advertised 320 hp and then some.

Why the name calling? Were you there at the beginning on Blue Oval News? That's where Fords problem started.
SVT's goal for the fix was 15% and they never achieved it. Our cars went from an average 250hp rwh to 275 rwh. That's not 15%. A bunch of us had our cars tuned at Danny Swansons place and we averaged 290/295 rwh when he finished. All of us had after market exhausts also. Yes they lied.

 

[SD_Stang]

Why the name calling? Were you there at the beginning on Blue Oval News? That's where Fords problem started.
SVT's goal for the fix was 15% and they never achieved it. Our cars went from an average 250hp rwh to 275 rwh. That's not 15%. A bunch of us had our cars tuned at Danny Swansons place and we averaged 290/295 rwh when he finished. All of us had after market exhausts also. Yes they lied.

They lie and give us more than what they advertised as well and more often than not. The difference would be staggering in the more % and they at least offered a fix for it.

I think times have changed for the better the new V6 would have beaten most just about every domestic NA V8 back in the 90's stock even early 2000's. That just shows you how far things have come.

 

[McRat]

Why the name calling? Were you there at the beginning on Blue Oval News? That's where Fords problem started.
SVT's goal for the fix was 15% and they never achieved it. Our cars went from an average 250hp rwh to 275 rwh. That's not 15%. A bunch of us had our cars tuned at Danny Swansons place and we averaged 290/295 rwh when he finished. All of us had after market exhausts also. Yes they lied.

Yeah, I remember those days. Ford certainly does dyno test their production cars before badging them. I would have to say that like Mazda, they lied about the output.

Here was the history. In 1997 GM came out with the LS1 SBC (347ci pushrod), and had badged the Z/28 at 305HP in '98 (SS's got 320HP badging). Ford's smaller 305HP DOHC was released in the 1999 Cobra with 320HP badging.

So I'm trying to decide which one, and I'm leaning toward the Cobra.

However, a visit to your local Test-n-Tune showed some WILD numbers.

A hotshoe in a '99 Cobra was over 1/2 sec and 5 mph slower in the quarter. F-bodies with the LS1 were trapping 103mph with auto, and 107mph with manual. Cobras were about 99-100mph.

Next, at your local dyno days, the F-Bodies were routinely hitting >300rwhp. OK, GM lied also (this has to do with the Corvette Brand Manager, but that's a different story). But the Cobra would often dyno out at ~255rwhp. No, a manual trans car doesn't lose 65HP through the drivetrain. Not even close.

There really isn't much debate about 1999. This was very common knowledge by owners.

 

[McRat]

Oh, and "Ding-Bat" isn't how I would describe Mike L.

He's the best in the world at what he does, and a very serious gearhead.

 

[chuckstang]

Why the name calling? Were you there at the beginning on Blue Oval News? That's where Fords problem started.
SVT's goal for the fix was 15% and they never achieved it. Our cars went from an average 250hp rwh to 275 rwh. That's not 15%. A bunch of us had our cars tuned at Danny Swansons place and we averaged 290/295 rwh when he finished. All of us had after market exhausts also. Yes they lied.

Agree to disagree then. It sucked that there was an issue keeping us from 320 HP but all you had to do was bring it to ford under warranty and they fixed it so not sure where the lieing took place. New cars come out all the time that have warranty issues and tsbs.

 

[chuckstang]

Oh, and "Ding-Bat" isn't how I would describe Mike L.

He's the best in the world at what he does, and a very serious gearhead.

The 305 HP motor from the 98 was not carried over to the 99... Its only a lie if they intentionally and knowingly stated something that was not true and IMO they did not.

 

[Kewlv8]

Ford lap times sucked and they can't own it. All independent test show the ZL1 owning it and the 1LE nipping at it toes. Thankfully they are going with an IRS next year. MAybe they will improve the rear brakes and suspension.

Owning it? You may want to do more research (aka open your eyes and shut your pie hole). For a car not targeted for the road course, the GT500 seems to be doing some owning.......

 

[Mike L.]

Agree to disagree then. It sucked that there was an issue keeping us from 320 HP but all you had to do was bring it to ford under warranty and they fixed it so not sure where the lieing took place. New cars come out all the time that have warranty issues and tsbs.

Problem is; it took attorneys to make this happen. Class action lawsuit was about to start. By June 1999, Ford was discounting these cars. My car was 28,000.00 sticker with 5,000.00 added on to it. I got it in July '99 for 2,000.00 under sticker. I didn't care about the horsepower, just wanted the car.

 

[McRat]

The 305 HP motor from the 98 was not carried over to the 99... Its only a lie if they intentionally and knowingly stated something that was not true and IMO they did not.

You really believe that nobody at Ford put one on the dyno, or ran one at the strip?

Please.

If they badged them at 320HP after they knew it wasn't pushing that, I would call that intentional.

There was a lot of pressure on them to match the GM brochure numbers. Whether that was the reason, or whether something radically changed between the first unit off the line and second one? Which do you think is more likely?

Believe what you like. If you believe that Ford does not test their production engines at all on a dyno, well ... You'd be wrong.

DOH!! I'm not saying the 305HP version is identical to the 320HP version - What I'm saying is both GM and Ford were badged at 305HP, then GM bumped to 320HP. Ford was under pressure to match the number.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Owning it? You may want to do more research (aka open your eyes and shut your pie hole). For a car not targeted for the road course, the GT500 seems to be doing some owning.......

Yep, this shows the almighty zl1 is indeed superior to GT500. :shrug: :lol1:
At least that POS is more comfortable for delicate vaginas. :lol1:

 

[Mike L.]

Why did the OP post this shit as a pm? Just sayin.

 

[Para81]

Make no mistake about it, ring times are important to customers. Just as important as 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times, braking 70ft-0ft times and all the other little numbers that buyers sit and read about before making that next big purchase.

As far as production vehicles goes it looks like the Porsche 918 Spyder is smashing it...

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia