Best heat exchanger currently on the market?

[Van@RevanRacing]

I'm not saying AFCO is better or worse, they are not the ones claiming to be better though. What I'm saying that people seem to be blind about is that if they were tested and his came out on top, he'd have pretty much the entire market..... Taking a corner on a entire market IMO would be something I'd want if it was my product.

First and foremost regardless of whether or not I tested both units back to back on the same day and produced the data then my integrity would be called into question. "You can't possibly be the one to do the testing as it would be biased" I can't argue that point.

But hey, what's a few grand, fuel, track time, car wear, tire wear, engine wear, labor, parts, materials.................to prove I have a better product. These threads are numerous and they can provide copious amounts of reading time fi that's what you want. Just start the search back in 2008.

I've already mentioned one example of a vendor asking me to test their product after they already said it was superior and they hadn't even tested it.

I appreciate your position that I could "corner the market" on heat exchangers but have you noticed the silence from the other manufacturers. Perhaps one comment that we use "such and such core". Nope.

Now the shoe is being placed on my foot to provide the testing! LOL My wife gives me enough to do on my honey do list and I don't need any more added to it! LOL Nobody else will provide data so I should do it? I suppose and then it would be called B.S. Slippery Slope. Hopefully you can see and understand my position.

 

[Black Cobra '99]

Actually Van is making a very good point. When will we stop demanding info (as customers) instead of producing it?
I just ordered H/E and once its here I'll post my findings.

 

[TheGovernment]

Thanks for Answering Van. I've read all the threads I can find, including the one on shelby with you and Justin and about 100 more over the past few weeks. It does suck it didn't happen, it would have put the issue to rest for sure. I fully understand why you personally wouldn't want to do the tests and thats really my whole point, if you did the test and turned out yours was much better, people that like AFCO would call foul, thats a certainty but no one seems to care otherwise for any type of claim.

It seems from what I've read that people really like you as a vendor and a person and thats awesome. I hope you can see where I'm coming from as well, as a consumer , although some think I'm asking irrational questions, being new to Shelbys and it being extremely different than the Regal T/GN forums where people do the tests on their own cars and post results, not scientific but at least it's something, that doesn't seem to happen much on here at all. There also seems to be more GN/Regal T vendors than what I've found for mustangs, which is a head scratcher lol
No ill will intended at all Van, I'm just a data guy and want the best for my money..... which ends up flying out of my account at break neck speeds lol

 

[TheGovernment]

Actually Van is making a very good point. When will we stop demanding info (as customers) instead of producing it?
I just ordered H/E and once its here I'll post my findings.

I'd be happy to post before and after results when I get the AFCO unit if I know what I need to record the temps. my car right now gets heat soaked pretty damn fast as I drive like I stole it lol.
What do I need to record the temps? I could data log? How would it be optimal I'd have to do it on days that are similar in temp of course.

 

[irontexan]

Actually Van is making a very good point. When will we stop demanding info (as customers) instead of producing it?
I just ordered H/E and once its here I'll post my findings.

I am assuming you went with the VMP triple pass as you had mentioned earlier in the thread? I look forward to reading you results with it as I can't seem to find anyone outside of VMP actually using the thing.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Thanks for Answering Van. I've read all the threads I can find, including the one on shelby with you and Justin and about 100 more over the past few weeks. It does suck it didn't happen, it would have put the issue to rest for sure. I fully understand why you personally wouldn't want to do the tests and thats really my whole point, if you did the test and turned out yours was much better, people that like AFCO would call foul, thats a certainty but no one seems to care otherwise for any type of claim.

It seems from what I've read that people really like you as a vendor and a person and thats awesome. I hope you can see where I'm coming from as well, as a consumer , although some think I'm asking irrational questions, being new to Shelbys and it being extremely different than the Regal T/GN forums where people do the tests on their own cars and post results, not scientific but at least it's something, that doesn't seem to happen much on here at all. There also seems to be more GN/Regal T vendors than what I've found for mustangs, which is a head scratcher lol
No ill will intended at all Van, I'm just a data guy and want the best for my money..... which ends up flying out of my account at break neck speeds lol

I love the old GN/Regal T's. Many great memories racing those cars when they were knew and buying chips from Kenne Bell for them as well!

I'll give you an example of collected data on the C&R versus the AFCO. 2010 GT500 around town cruising and data logging the car operated 9/10 degrees higher mean IAT2 throughout the log. This was the customer driving and I was in the passenger seat logging. We did four timed hits over the course of five minutes establishing RPM and then making a hit to 6,200 RPM. We were actually in the process of remote tuning the car so we were not actually looking for comparable or negative data it just revealed itself. The customer asked if I had one in stock and we made the swap.

One of the other items noted was recovery time. After a WOT pull the recovery time of the IAT2's to an acceptable temperature was quicker after we made the change. Being as the customer open tracks and road races his car recovery time and cool IAT2's were paramount we just came across the data during remote tuning.

So on the street with four timed pulls in the course of 5 minutes one day apart (hot South Florida Summer day) the C&R performed between 9/10 degrees better than the AFCO Dual fan.

If you're going to data log your car and you are using SCT for tuning download LiveLink to a laptop computer and there are a number of pids you can select. The one correlating to our topic of discussion is IAT2 or Inlet Ambient Temperature 2 aka Downstream Air Charge Temperature 2.

Thanks for the compliment about me and my business. It's easy when you're honest.

 

[Black Cobra '99]

I am assuming you went with the VMP triple pass as you had mentioned earlier in the thread? I look forward to reading you results with it as I can't seem to find anyone outside of VMP actually using the thing.

Yes I got the triple. it should be here in a couple of weeks.

I'd be happy to post before and after results when I get the AFCO unit if I know what I need to record the temps. my car right now gets heat soaked pretty damn fast as I drive like I stole it lol.
What do I need to record the temps? I could data log? How would it be optimal I'd have to do it on days that are similar in temp of course.

Well, I'm in the same boat brother :kaboom:
Still, I'll try my best to get the data needed.

 

[black99lightnin]

Can we retrofit the 13/14 HE on the older cars. Is it a straight swap?

 

[brian98svtsnake]

Was away for a few days and missed a lot but I'm all caught up now. I purchased an Afco dual fan from the market here, it was brand new but I got it for 590 shipped. I let the price dictate what I purchased but I did ask a friend of mine whom knows a thing or two about this stuff and he feels the difference between the Afco core and C&R core are minute and I'd be happy with the Afco unit. If I didn't get that amazing price I would've gone C&R from Revan Racing or Shelby's C&R depending on the price the eBay auction went up to. I have to admit I'm slightly nervous I made a bad decision but like I said earlier there are plenty of satisfied Afco users. For the two times a year I go to the track I'm sure between the dual fans and the Moroso reservoir that I'll fill with ice I'll be fine. Here's a pic

Also I thought this was funny and figured I'd post it for your entertainment lol

Obviously they're not going to write that our cores are inferior to C&R's lol

 

[irontexan]

I decided to go with the C&R from Revan Racing, and after talking with Van for a little bit on the phone, I have no regrets about my decision. Also being that I already have a Roush 3x capacity reservoir which is included in the price from Revan Racing, the final cost was better than reasonable.

 

[zporta]

talking to van on the phone is almost a bonus of buying his products. granted im sure we have went on a few tangents he doesnt always discuss with all customers

 

['09 Red Stripe]

Van.... I have a shipping question.... After reading this post among others, I'm really leaning to the C&R. So my question is, do you ship to APO, AE addresses??? I'm military and stationed in Germany and alot of places refuse to ship here.

 

[kozumasbullitt]

FYI- The Steeda triple pass H/E with dual fans is a CSF core.

 

[TheGovernment]

So out of curiosity, I was talking to our dealerships performance dealer we get pretty much all our performance parts from. We got on the topic of HE's, rads in general and I showed him this thread. He actually has gotten a few C&R's through shelby for other customers at out neighbor Ford dealership ( I'm at a GM one) He's a racer and runs a boss 302 with a vmp charger setup. He seems to be a pretty smart guy.
Although he couldn't say which is better or worse, he did bring up a point that I though was pretty valid to this thread. In the last 6 years of running his shop, he's never had 1 return of any AFCO product of any kind or had any kind of negative feedback in that time.
Now thats not to say it's a better performing product than C&R but he does supply over 50 different dealerships and shops their performance parts and sells a ton of AFCO stuff. Thats a pretty good track record for quality IMO. He said the C&R were also quality units but has only gotten a handful.

He runs the dual AFCO unit in his track boss and said he was very satisfied with it.


Again, thats not to say 1 is better or worse, it was just interesting.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van.... I have a shipping question.... After reading this post among others, I'm really leaning to the C&R. So my question is, do you ship to APO, AE addresses??? I'm military and stationed in Germany and alot of places refuse to ship here.

Hit me up at [email protected] I've shipped quite a few overseas with USPS. Takes a little extra effort but our brothers in arms are worth it! That's not to say we can all the time! Somethings are just too big or heavy for the USPS to take.

FYI- The Steeda triple pass H/E with dual fans is a CSF core.

What this simply tells us is who is manufacturing the product for Steeda which is excellent information. Perhaps we can get someone from CSF to tell us specifically what core they are using. :beer:

So out of curiosity, I was talking to our dealerships performance dealer we get pretty much all our performance parts from. We got on the topic of HE's, rads in general and I showed him this thread. He actually has gotten a few C&R's through shelby for other customers at out neighbor Ford dealership ( I'm at a GM one) He's a racer and runs a boss 302 with a vmp charger setup. He seems to be a pretty smart guy.
Although he couldn't say which is better or worse, he did bring up a point that I though was pretty valid to this thread. In the last 6 years of running his shop, he's never had 1 return of any AFCO product of any kind or had any kind of negative feedback in that time.
Now thats not to say it's a better performing product than C&R but he does supply over 50 different dealerships and shops their performance parts and sells a ton of AFCO stuff. Thats a pretty good track record for quality IMO. He said the C&R were also quality units but has only gotten a handful.

He runs the dual AFCO unit in his track boss and said he was very satisfied with it.


Again, thats not to say 1 is better or worse, it was just interesting.

If he didn't have anybody come back in 6 years then he must have run the original AFCO Dual Fan heat exchanger with dual relays because those were failing at a considerable rate. To a point where AFCO sent free Dual Relay set ups out to all of their customers and even came on to SVTP to offer an apology and what they were willing to do after a lot of customers were upset with burnt wiring harnesses and relays etc.

I never publicly stated that the AFCO unit didn't perform. The C&R unit performs better, has a faster recovery period and a lower mean operating temperature based on my data logs and as some of you know that have spoken with me on the phone, you get what you pay for.............

Some businesses and companies are driven solely by profit margin. My business thrives on selling quality products that perform at the highest possible level in the most extreme conditions and not what always gives me the best profit margin. If that were the case I would have picked up other brands of heat exchangers a long time ago. I've data logged AFCO vs. C&R in multiple venues. I don't sell it because it is an inferior product that does not perform as well as the C&R.

I'm not bashing any brand I'm simply pointing out what I have witnessed and what my businesses stands for.

 

[TheGovernment]

Van, that post wasn't directed at you, It was just talking between 2 guys and I though I'd share the conversation. He may have had to replace relays etc but he said straight out he's never had a return of a unit, he never said anything about relays etc. Also keep in mind thats not just mustang HE's, its AFCO's entire lineup.

 

[FORDMAN GT500]

FYI- The Steeda triple pass H/E with dual fans is a CSF core.

After reading up on this core Im very impressed and glad I bought one also. I just need to get it in now :bash::bash:. LOL

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

After reading up on this core Im very impressed and glad I bought one also. I just need to get it in now :bash::bash:. LOL

Do you have a link to the specifics on this core that you reference?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van, that post wasn't directed at you, It was just talking between 2 guys and I though I'd share the conversation. He may have had to replace relays etc but he said straight out he's never had a return of a unit, he never said anything about relays etc. Also keep in mind thats not just mustang HE's, its AFCO's entire lineup.

I didn't take it as directed at me I just pointed out some instances for the ongoing discussion.

 

[FORDMAN GT500]

Do you have a link to the specifics on this core that you reference?

I just googled CSF core.Came up with a bunch of stuff. It seems the drift guys love their radiators .Cars that had cooling problems due to not getting direct air while sideways had their problems cured. Special shapes of the tubes and fins make it more efficient so they say. I wasnt done reading it all yet.