Avoid JJ @ Woodbine Motorsports

[mebcop]

I would never let a tuner who lied to me touch my car either... If you lied about which tune you sent him, why wouldn't you lie about what was wrong with the tune/car.

This is where you screwed yourself. Even if it were a mechanical issue, a lot of people arent going to believe you now....

 

[Fabbed5.0]

both you guys cant seem to read if your life depended on it. OP car ran like crap plain an simple. it comes down to either getting JJ to fix the tune an make it perfect or giving the OP his money back. it that easy. sorry you 2 aren't smart enough to understand that. :bash:

X2 :beer:

 

[momstmg]

I wouldn't trust JJ with my lawnmower.

 

[JJ 10.88 Coyote]

But JJ, here's the thing, you lied to/ intentionally tried to deceive the op. Someone that did that to me would never touch my car again either. Just sayin.

The op wanted to hear nothing about how this could have possibly be a mechanical problem when we first talked after he left here with the car. I said let me look at it and he said no. Sending him the tune (s) (read both the vortech and mine) which were two of the same came about after the fact and after he wouldn't let me look at the car, demanded a refund and threatened social media exposure. I knew and still know how well the car ran on my tune because I test drive each vehicle here for tuning and it was fine so when the op blamed the tune and only the tune I knew that when he installed the vortech tune I would have never been told what mechanical issue was found only the fact that the vortech tune was perfect so I sent him the same tune that he left here with. Either way I knew I was screwed and it looks like I was right. Was it the right thing to do? No it wasn't but I was damned either way and the subsequent actions and name calling have proven that to me.

Shops are always the bad guy on forums. I've been around long enough to know that but sometimes you just can't satisfy someone.

Time to move on I have tried to explain the best I could.

Regards,

JJ

 

[SCalla1384]

both you guys cant seem to read if your life depended on it. OP car ran like crap plain an simple. it comes down to either getting JJ to fix the tune an make it perfect or giving the OP his money back. it that easy. sorry you 2 aren't smart enough to understand that. :bash:

Obviously you can't read. OP wouldn't allow JJ to touch the car.

I wasn't there so I don't know who's telling the truth I have no idea.

I just wanted to add in jj's 10 second pass lol

 

[SCalla1384]

JJ I wouldn't even bother posting anymore. Shops all ways look like the bad guy on the forums. There's no point in defending yourself, everyone's going to take the op's side, minus a few.

 

[nosympathy]

And thats part of the problem I was not allowed to touch the car or look at it for a possible mechanical issue (hose popped off etc...) after the op took the car. He specifically stated he did not want me touching the car ever again and the only mention of him allowing ke to look at it came after he posted this bashfest on several different forums calling me a liar and a thief.

After hearing that the car had an issue and those issues got worse I literally begged the op to let me look at it and he refused.

Boss281 is a customer who has developed into a good friend over the years along with his girlfriend and they are typical of the relationships we build with our customers.

JJ

I don't think anything you say will ever make you look good because of two things.

One, obvious rush job/telling the OP the tune will work itself out.

two, flat out lying to the customer about what tune you sent him.

With that stuff happening, I wouldn't let you touch my car either.

I don't anymore, but having worked a job where customer service was key, one thing you always have to stand behind, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.

A customer will come back too you, when you help them realize their mistake in a positive way.

EVEN IF you sent him the same tune and told him to try loading it again incase somehow the file got corrupted AND it had fixed the issue, you still would have won the customer over by offering to have them bring the car in to double check it.

So, my whole point of all that, EVEN IF the OP was wrong and flat out trying to cause problems, the way you handled the situation, was not good. A company has to always look better than its customers.

 

[nosympathy]

JJ I wouldn't even bother posting anymore. Shops all ways look like the bad guy on the forums. There's no point in defending yourself, everyone's going to take the op's side, minus a few.

Exactly why JJ should have done the same. Which this whole time and the lightening thread he didn't do. It is always someone elses fault and not his. A business should always assume blame until proven otherwise.



As someone stated before, you will always be viewed in your worst moments. Your highlights and glories mean nothing if you have terrible moments to overshadow them.

 

[CobRoush-00]

"Fan club"? Really???? Look up sophistry, look in the mirror and come back. There I think I did ok there, internet bashing and all.

Look at the red 2005. See it? Runs like gang busters. Didn't happen on the first tune, second or third. We had to ****ing work at it to get it right. Prototype intake manifold has us all wonky. I complained, took it back, JJ worked on it (no FURTHER charges), until one day I drove it off the trailer and ran the 3rd fastest (documented at least) NA stock block (except cams) into the 11s. Your damn tooting he got it RIGHT, but it took a bit of playing around. The blue 2011--nothing special except intake through exhaust and is brutally fast--came out right the first time. The white 2007 with stock everything except CAI, headers and some suspension components went from a 13.0 to 12.4 in her hands--took a couple of tweaks to get it right.

JJ's admitted he could have handled things better, admitted to being on a road trip that temporarily delayed working closely with the customer, and the customer kind of went off (understandably) that his car wasn't running properly and wasn't liking what he heard (again, understandably). Putting all the dialogue aside, one approach many of us would consider is getting the car back to the shop.

I've read the posts like you have, and have reached a different conclusion that is yes, based on my own experiences and those I've seen with MANY other customers since 2005. I'm not a JJ nuthugger, but he is a friend, and like many friends can screw up now and then. When I first saw these notes on NVMC I was stunned, but read through everything twice, and started picking up what facts I could in between accusations. I've read the material and feel the dialogue threw this one in the toilet, not JJ's capabilities, reputation, track record and customer service philosophy. It's fun to join the bash band wagon but all too often facts get lost in the ether.

I would bet that a 10 minute face to face, soon after JJ's return from competitive racing, would have solved this.

For you fence sitters, I'm taking $1500 worth of parts into his shop on a Sunday (haven't seen the man in 8 months and he extends a weekend courtesy so I'm not inconvenienced being late to work Monday), and have full confidence my car will work fine, be clean, and in proper working order. If it isn't, I'll document the issues and bring it back until it's fixed. That's how he rolls.

Over and out...

Sir, you can call me whatever you want and it's your right to defend your friend. My mother would still think I am the most wonderful kid in the whole world even if I murder a whole community.
Thank God I don't know either guy. Therefore I have no reason to take side. If I remember correctly, even after all the exchange, the OP was willing to load the car back to JJ so he could look at it but JJ the perfectionist rescinded the offer citing that he read in some part the OP caled him a liar and a thief. WOW! what a BS! It was an opportunity for JJ to prove to all of us "Fence sitters" that the OP was wrong and he was right. Canceling an agreement on that basis was a proof to anyone with a working brain that JJ didn't want to be embarrassed if it was proven that his tune was the problem. It was clever on his part because it left that doubt out there and you can come defend him. Just remember till this moment, no one questions his ability to do a good job. We just said that he dropped the ball on the OP's car and he refused to acknowledge it. Well, I guess it's not his fault either, it's the OP's fault.

 

[boss281]

Sir, you can call me whatever you want and it's your right to defend your friend. My mother would still think I am the most wonderful kid in the whole world even if I murder a whole community.
Thank God I don't know either guy. Therefore I have no reason to take side. If I remember correctly, even after all the exchange, the OP was willing to load the car back to JJ so he could look at it but JJ the perfectionist rescinded the offer citing that he read in some part the OP caled him a liar and a thief. WOW! what a BS! It was an opportunity for JJ to prove to all of us "Fence sitters" that the OP was wrong and he was right. Canceling an agreement on that basis was a proof to anyone with a working brain that JJ didn't want to be embarrassed if it was proven that his tune was the problem. It was clever on his part because it left that doubt out there and you can come defend him. Just remember till this moment, no one questions his ability to do a good job. We just said that he dropped the ball on the OP's car and he refused to acknowledge it. Well, I guess it's not his fault either, it's the OP's fault.

You know man, that's getting pretty close to an objective read of the issue--nice job. Just do this: start at the beginning and look when and where the offer to get the car back DID occur, and was not followed through by the OP. This is the part I truly don't get. Oddly enough, I think a simple trip back would solve this. Ah well, people love to hop on bandwagons, clueless to either party. I happen to know one of them, and have a history, so I know a little about one. to all , YMMV... Peace, the ball game is in full swing and time to move on...:rockon:

 

[CobRoush-00]

I will go outside right now, take a pic of the mileage, go to uhaul, get a trailer, bring the car to you. Now wiggle your way out of that one.

Wiggle my way out of what? I asked you several times to bring the car to me but you refused and said you didn't want me touching the car again.

I'm confused because if its running flawlessly now for the last 150 miles (which is what you said on the phone today)with my tune on it what is the need to bring it to me?

I would be happy to get the vehicle here again and if you can arrange that please do. I would accomidate you in anyway I can.

JJ

Not true, he is refusing to allow JJ to work on the car. He said he was willing to bring the car to him and show him that it's JJ's tune that is messed up, not the car.

I'll bring the car to you. But I want to be there for whatever it is you want to do. So if you can accommodate that? Then let's do this.

If you want to avoid all this BS so we don't have to see each other ever again? I'd happily take half my money back.

I'm not sure what you want to do the car, but you can swap tunes to your heart's content while I'm there. Go for it. Want to do the tune pepsi challenge? Wonderful.

JJ if you're reading this, I'm going to bed. I have to get up at 0430. I will call you at 9am if there's nothing going on, but I WILL get in contact with you tomorrow.

I have one car show this weekend and two the weekend after that. I have to make them due to sponsor obligations (which I know you're familiar with). Like I said, I'll do anything I can so that we can part ways amicably and we both feel like we didn't get ripped off.

I have a dyno appointment at 9 so I may not be able to take your call but will do the best I can to do so. If I don't please feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience.

I have been contacted by other customers that this is not the only forum you have posted this on and I am not a member nor do I have the free time to check those out so pkease update those threads with current resolution ideas to this issue. I would appreciate that and take it as a sign that we can amicably resolve this issue and possibly go get a beer afterwards.

Thank you

JJ

I talked to JJ a few minutes ago. I am taking my car back to him to allow him to rectify the situation. I'm doing this on the advice of legal counsel, other tuners in the community, the commentary from the readers on this forum, the vendors on this site and my sponsors.

I will post the results when I get the car back. I hung up the phone with a positive attitude and JJ was accommodating to my schedule.

I do this in hope this action reflects positively upon me as trying to sort things out AND JJ for getting the car to make power.

It was good talking to you today.

I must say however that the very last part of your signature does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling and it got me to thinking.



I can deal with you airing out your grievances here and on other forums but I'm honestly not cool with being called a thief.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out what to do and honestly I was ok with everything you said before, from the (which is untrue as its a full service shop with 4 lifts and a dyno that just happens to be located where I live) and then this .....

Then after re reading this thread something caught my eye... The following from you;


So I remember you saying it broke down but what was the fix? Afterwards you took it all the way down to MW and it didn't break down again? Your admittedly on my tune at MW but it didn't break down again? Sorry but that just doesn't add up. You don't just break down where it wont start and run, don't find anything wrong and then be able to drive it hundreds of miles with it not breaking down again. I hate going back to this but I feel a mechanical issue was resolved but never revealed to either myself or in this story of events. Also if I were in your shoes and had to pay for a tow bill I would have damn well expected to be reimbursed but you never mentioned that nor did you ever talk about it here in this thread. Something doesn't add up IMHO.

I respectfully rescind my offer to look at your car again because I feel that no matter what I do I wont be able to satisfy you and honestly I don't appreciate being called a thief. I have built my business over the last 10 years by being honest and straightforward with my customers and my reputation as seen by the several positive posts in this thread is something I have worked hard to earn so if someone things I'm a thief then I would rather not do business with them or deal with them any longer.

Lastly for those who thought I was untruthful about sending him the vortech tune when I knew it was my tune I did so because I knew I was being played. I knew that the phonecall would be "hey the car runs great with the vortech tune, you owe me my money back" when in fact the story I feel that's not being told is that after the car was towed back to his house(if in fact it was towed considering he never asked for me to repay him for towing) he found the mechanical problem that caused the issues, the check engine light, the stalling and the subsequent break down but was already too far involved with blaming my tune that he didn't say anything. Again you just don't break down with a bad tune and then magically drive the car hundreds of miles. (lets not forget Keith installed his own headers and midpipes before bringing the car to me, so there was work done to the car and if the steering shaft was left loose, which we fixed at no charge, then whos to say something else wasn't loose or caused these issues.

Sorry Keith but the "thief" comment you made spoke more to me then hundreds of paragraphs ever could and its the one thing that you can say to a reputable shop owner to make him feel differently about the customer and in that case the reputable shop owner is me and your the one calling me a thief.

I wish nothing but the best for you and hold no ill will towards you.

Please have Nikki call me with the original CC number and I will refund 1/2 of the tuning fee.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, input and consideration. If anyone who participates on the other forums that this was posted on could post a link to this thread on the thread on those forums I would appreciate it as I don't have the time to find/reply all of this over there. Thank you.

JJ@WMS

Now for some of you who keep saying the OP never took the car back to JJ and blah blah blah..., please read these above posts. Yes, he was willing to take it back and end the whole mess on a positive note but JJ blew it by refusing to agree to his own request. Why? Maybe he would be proven wrong and that would be unacceptable for someone who is so perfect. Stop being like my mother who thinks I am still a saint. Come on! No matter how you dress a pig, it's still a pig. He is a great tuner, a great friend or whatever he is for you but he dropped the ball this time. He would have gotten more respect if he admitted he was human and went on to rectify the problem. And JJ, there's no reason for you to post here defending yourself. You're making yourself look really bad. Just my .02 cents.

 

[4VFTW]

all issues aside this car put down 540hp STD...even if it was running "fine" when it left the shop It was anything but "fine"

 

[Poppacapp]

Now for some of you who keep saying the OP never took the car back to JJ and blah blah blah..., please read these above posts. Yes, he was willing to take it back and end the whole mess on a positive note but JJ blew it by refusing to agree to his own request. Why? Maybe he would be proven wrong and that would be unacceptable for someone who is so perfect. Stop being like my mother who thinks I am still a saint. Come on! No matter how you dress a pig, it's still a pig. He is a great tuner, a great friend or whatever he is for you but he dropped the ball this time. He would have gotten more respect if he admitted he was human and went on to rectify the problem. And JJ, there's no reason for you to post here defending yourself. You're making yourself look really bad. Just my .02 cents.

He refused to deal with the OP after the deal was struck to look at the car because after the deal, he saw the OP's sig where it said JJ was a thief, to PM him for more info. I think this deal went bad on both sides..both before and after Mustang Week. There are definitely things that should have been handled differently than they were... On BOTH sides.

 

[CPRsm]

I don't think anything you say will ever make you look good because of two things.

One, obvious rush job/telling the OP the tune will work itself out.

two, flat out lying to the customer about what tune you sent him.

With that stuff happening, I wouldn't let you touch my car either.

Doesn't matter. He offered to check the car out in the text. He offered still, to help him out even though he was here telling everyone how horrible it was. It wasn't a safety issue or any cause for concern. The car ran poorly and he deserved a chance to fix it. AT MINIMUM, let him figure it so he knows if it was tune or mechical. Him not giving him an oppurtunity to look at it seems suspect.

I don't anymore, but having worked a job where customer service was key, one thing you always have to stand behind, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.

Nope. Not a chance. This mentality is why customers think they can act how ever they want without repercussion. Generally speaking a customer who thinks that way is a customer most shops don't want to deal with. The headache is not worth the money. Jj was here trying to resolve while the the OP was calling him a theif in his signature. Probably on multiple sites as well. No matter what happened before that, help had been offered more than once and the OP burned his own bridge. Things probably could have been done differently either way. But if you think anyone should have to take abuse like that just because the customer is dishing it out you're crazy.

 

[me32]

Obviously you can't read. OP wouldn't allow JJ to touch the car.

I wasn't there so I don't know who's telling the truth I have no idea.

I just wanted to add in jj's 10 second pass lol

JJ I wouldn't even bother posting anymore. Shops all ways look like the bad guy on the forums. There's no point in defending yourself, everyone's going to take the op's side, minus a few.

you still don't get it do you? :bash:. if you actually took the time or paid someone that's smarter than you to read this whole thread too you, you would see that the OP an JJ have talk on the phone after this was posted and were working on a solution. the only issue now has been have they come to a solution that works for both parties.

it would be smart of you to stop playing Captain save a (input the word). it makes you look like a :loser:

 

[phinhead34]

Doesn't matter. He offered to check the car out in the text. He offered still, to help him out even though he was here telling everyone how horrible it was. It wasn't a safety issue or any cause for concern. The car ran poorly and he deserved a chance to fix it. AT MINIMUM, let him figure it so he knows if it was tune or mechical. Him not giving him an oppurtunity to look at it seems suspect.



Nope. Not a chance. This mentality is why customers think they can act how ever they want without repercussion. Generally speaking a customer who thinks that way is a customer most shops don't want to deal with. The headache is not worth the money. Jj was here trying to resolve while the the OP was calling him a theif in his signature. Probably on multiple sites as well. No matter what happened before that, help had been offered more than once and the OP burned his own bridge. Things probably could have been done differently either way. But if you think anyone should have to take abuse like that just because the customer is dishing it out you're crazy.

I agree!

 

[old_goat]

Just remember no business has ever won an argument with a customer. 7 pages of crap could of been avoided if a refund was issued.

Let's agree to disagree. In these days of multiple car forums, a business should take a very proactive line against just giving refunds without an effort to correct problems.

I'm not saying this is the principle or context in this thread, but if all it takes is for someone to say, "pay me back or I'll post this on the internet and trash your business" and some business just writes a check real quick, they're setting themselves up for failure. They will always be running scared.

In the car world, there are just too many variables to contemplate in one of these he said/he said arguments.

This thread can go on forever, but nobody will win.

 

[Heuristic]

The op wanted to hear nothing about how this could have possibly be a mechanical problem when we first talked after he left here with the car. I said let me look at it and he said no. Sending him the tune (s) (read both the vortech and mine) which were two of the same came about after the fact and after he wouldn't let me look at the car, demanded a refund and threatened social media exposure. I knew and still know how well the car ran on my tune because I test drive each vehicle here for tuning and it was fine so when the op blamed the tune and only the tune I knew that when he installed the vortech tune I would have never been told what mechanical issue was found only the fact that the vortech tune was perfect so I sent him the same tune that he left here with. Either way I knew I was screwed and it looks like I was right. Was it the right thing to do? No it wasn't but I was damned either way and the subsequent actions and name calling have proven that to me.

Shops are always the bad guy on forums. I've been around long enough to know that but sometimes you just can't satisfy someone.

Time to move on I have tried to explain the best I could.

Regards,

JJ

Dude.. He is saying he put a DIFFERENT TUNE!!!!!!!!! than the one you sent him. He knew you were full of shit the second you sent him your tune and LIED that it was the vortech tune. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this?

 

[boss281]

you still don't get it do you? :bash:. if you actually took the time or paid someone that's smarter than you to read this whole thread too you, you would see that the OP an JJ have talk on the phone after this was posted and were working on a solution. the only issue now has been have they come to a solution that works for both parties.

it would be smart of you to stop playing Captain save a (input the word). it makes you look like a :loser:

Is this your self empowerment motivational approach? Wow, how "constructive" of you.

 

[4VFTW]

Hey sorry I lied to you about the tune I sent you , but can you bring me your car again so I can check it over?

stupid Prat.